Int'l Burn a Koran Day

[waggy]

Have any posters read it? I don't think I would/could, so I don't think I'd burn one.

I'm sure Jesus will take care of any necessary burnings.

[smileyy]

I'm guessing most of the attendees of such a thing wouldn't get the point of me burning a flag right next to them.

[xudash]

It's not a good idea, but I certainly can understand the desire to do it. Watching TV news and watching the @ssholes overseas burn our flag, etc. while they protest against it is bullsh!t.

They do that stuff all the time. That doesn't make it right for us to do it, but some of the desire to do it has to stem from watching all their protestations.

[rhyno2110]

Dash, not pointing you out, because i've done it before too. But why can't we just type in the swear word. We mean the same thing either way, and its not like we need to impress anybody.

Sorry for the sidenote.

[xudash]

Dash, not pointing you out, because i've done it before too. But why can't we just type in the swear word. We mean the same thing either way, and its not like we need to impress anybody.

Sorry for the sidenote.

No problem.

I assume they get automatically edited out so I twist them around a little.

So I call bullshit on myself (see if this works).

[xudash]

It worked.

Thanks rhyno. And I'll use them sparingly.

[DC Muskie]

Is this thread for real?

[XU-PA]

It's not a good idea, but I certainly can understand the desire to do it. Watching TV news and watching the @ssholes overseas burn our flag, etc. while they protest against it is bullsh!t.

They do that stuff all the time. That doesn't make it right for us to do it, but some of the desire to do it has to stem from watching all their protestations.

I can't understand the desire.
Burning a flag, or perhaps a political figure in effigy=protesting a country or their actions. Burning something like a bible, or the quran, something much different, and would invoke much more violent feelings from any group i suspect.

just my opinion, I think that's what all this crap boils down to. when people express anger at those people responsible for terrorist acts, why do many express that anger against a religion? do we really think all people who hold the quran as holy are terrorists? would have to agree completely with our attorney general Holder, this from the AP
" a Justice Department official who was present confirmed that Holder said that the plan by the Rev. Terry Jones to burn copies of the Quran at his church in Gainesville, Fla., Saturday was idiotic.

The official, who requested anonymity because the meeting was private, also said Holder was quoting Gen. David Petraeus when he used the word dangerous."

[GoMuskies]

Do marshmallows taste better toasted over a Koran or a Bible?

[BBC 08]

Do marshmallows taste better toasted over a Koran or a Bible?

Easily the Torah. Koran makes things to spicy and the Bible to bland.

[blobfan]

I'm with XU-PA: I just don't get this. Why attack an entire religion just because of a few nuts, even if they are really dangerous nuts. I try VERY hard in my life to resist the urge to paint each member of any group with the same brush. I don't get the point of attacking the Quran to protest a minority of the Muslim faith that believes in violence. The Quran isn't the problem any more than the Bible was the cause of the Inquisition. The problem is greedy people manipulating poor desperate people. Burning a book they hold dear won't do any good for anyone, except bring attention to the greedy attention whores at this particular church.

[xeus]

Maybe it's just safer these days to have an online statement of faith (http://www.crossroads.net/my/about/whatWeBelieve/statementoffaith.htm) so that no one can burn it.

[smileyy]

About once every 10 years, it's good to burn an American flag in public just to remember how great it is that we have the freedom to do something as loathsome as burning an American flag in public.

However, when non-Americans do it, it sure as hell means something a whole lot different that's not going to win you any friends (in the United States anyway)

In the end, Blobfan said it best. Kudos.

[wkrq59]

I agree with Blob Fan. What is particularly loathsome about this case is an ordained minister, pastor, preacher and alleged man of God is fomenting this hate. Of course this is nothing new from apparent whackos! I also agree with Gen. Petraeus that such acts could encourage further extreme actions against our troops in the Middle East. But history says this kind of crap is not new. Remember the internment of American citizens of Japanese heritage during WWII? Their property was confiscated and they were herded into, what did they call them? Resettlement camps? God save us from the extremists and their misguided alleged acts of patriotism.:(

[American X]

I am just glad this internet pastor with a congregation of 20 represents all of Christianity.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

I am just glad this internet pastor with a congregation of 20 represents all of Christianity.

True. The only church he represents is the church of the dollar and fame

http://cmsimg.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=AB&Date=20100908&Category=CINCI&ArtNo=100908005&Ref=AR&MaxW=308&Border=0

[coasterville95]

Does he still have 20? - I thought his "Congregation" was trying to distance themselves as far as possible from him.

[xudash]

I can't understand the desire.
Burning a flag, or perhaps a political figure in effigy=protesting a country or their actions. Burning something like a bible, or the quran, something much different, and would invoke much more violent feelings from any group i suspect.

just my opinion, I think that's what all this crap boils down to. when people express anger at those people responsible for terrorist acts, why do many express that anger against a religion? do we really think all people who hold the quran as holy are terrorists? would have to agree completely with our attorney general Holder, this from the AP
" a Justice Department official who was present confirmed that Holder said that the plan by the Rev. Terry Jones to burn copies of the Quran at his church in Gainesville, Fla., Saturday was idiotic.

The official, who requested anonymity because the meeting was private, also said Holder was quoting Gen. David Petraeus when he used the word dangerous."

The first thing I typed in my first response to this thread was that I thought it was a bad idea for this "minister" in Gainesville to pursue the burning event.

Otherwise, I was a little too lazy in setting up why I believe a number of people in this country would rather escalate the hatred and separation than restrain themselves. It just isn't the flag burning stuff. The very bad among these terrorist factions have tortured and beheaded our soldiers. I can't imagine that they haven't burnt a bible in their day. They love being in front of television cameras as they burn an effigy of our President as they stomp on the flag doing it. Keep in mind that they want us dead and Christianity finished. That may or may not have the effect of pissing off some people in this nation.

Do I agree with the minister in Gainesville? Of course not.

Do I hold all Islam accountable for the actions of a misguided "few"? Nope.

Should we "hate in kind"? No, that will not get us any where.

Having watched the news from time to time, do I day dream about selective strikes to take out some of these assholes while they scream their hatred through our television sets? You betcha, but that is the extent of it.

I watched Charlie Rose's interview of Tony Blair last night. I've always liked Blair, even though his economic political philosophy is left of mine. He noted that the 21st Century would be primarily defined by continuing development in Asia and, in essence, by religious and cultural beliefs globally. You would have to have listened to the entire show to take the latter part of the last sentence in context.

However, we're going to have to figure out a way to allow Islamic people to see that the West is not inherently hostile towards them. Solving the Israeli/Palestinian issue would go a long way towards moving in that direction.

The Crusades didn't go so well. A modern version of them with nukes would be devastating. Keep killing Al Qaeda while working with friendly Islamic governments. Depending upon what happens with Iran, perhaps things slowly break the right way over a few decades.

The Berlin Wall eventually came down. Organized terrorism on a global scale can be brought to its knees as well.

[BBC 08]

I blame the end of Monty Python for this. It's left nothing but free time for Terry Jones to do things like this.

[Kahns Krazy]

While I abhor this particular idea, I love that I live in a country that believes in free speech enough to let the idiots exercise their right.

I just hope the idiots that retaliate get the guy's address right.

[STL_XUfan]

I equate this to the solider funeral protests. Is it allowed under the 1st amendment? Yes. Is it the prudent thing to do? Hell no. Do I secretly hope someone punches the person that acts like this in the face? YES (any volunteers).

The problem is that this makes great television. Therefore it will be covered constantly because it is easy to be packaged to a mass audience. If this guy took his 5 people and yelled for a while and everyone ignored him then it would be dismissed. However, since it is so obscene it will be covered around the globe and will give a blue print to other nut jobs on how to get their obscure views press. (I realize the hypocrisy of wasting pixels on this guy even in this forum).

[sweet16]

I read an interesting article a few years ago.........and how it relates to this thread I have no idea. Anyway, the author was attempting to present two cultures side-by-side and he used two individuals as one of many examples. Specifically, he discussed an Afghan mother who had to sell her oldest child in order to secure food for her youngest child. Then he discussed an NFL super bowl winning lineman who went to a restaurant, ordered a steak, and then told the waitress to keep bringing more steaks until he puked. He closed that segment of his article by simply asking "is there any doubt why they hate us so much".

[xudash]

I read an interesting article a few years ago.........and how it relates to this thread I have no idea. Anyway, the author was attempting to present two cultures side-by-side and he used two individuals as one of many examples. Specifically, he discussed an Afghan mother who had to sell her oldest child in order to secure food for her youngest child. Then he discussed an NFL super bowl winning lineman who went to a restaurant, ordered a steak, and then told the waitress to keep bringing more steaks until he puked. He closed that segment of his article by simply asking "is there any doubt why they hate us so much".

I believe that certain "professions" in our society are paid much, much more than whatever their intrinsic value to society might be, and I agree that gluttony in any form and in any society is pathetic. I agree that it is beyond terrible that a disadvantaged mother should have to do such a thing.

If the author was mad about the guy eating his way to the vomitorium, then I agree with him. However, if "they hate us" because of our success in general, too bad. We live in a $13+ trillion dollar economy. There will be excesses. We're not all like that. And a very respectable portion of that economic output goes back into other nations in the form of humanitarian support and aid.

While respecting that the truly disadvantaged should receive help, you could otherwise turn this around very quickly and suggest that the Afghan's leave the stone age behind and build a legitimate economy, instead of supplying opium to the world.

[smileyy]

I believe that certain "professions" in our society are paid much, much more than whatever their intrinsic value to society might be

That's a very socialist outlook :)

[Kahns Krazy]

I read an interesting article a few years ago.........and how it relates to this thread I have no idea.

At first I thought this had to be a Snipe post, but then he would never admit to his irrelevance.

[Kahns Krazy]

If the author was mad about the guy eating his way to the vomitorium.

An NFL lineman starts his day in a vomitorium. He doesn't need to eat his way there.

[xudash]

That's a very socialist outlook :)

See, even I can appreciate the extremes of capitalism.

Frankly, if it were up to me, I would adjust the tax code to establish a more progressive tax on AGI FROM ALL SOURCES of $5 million and up with the idea of capturing athlete salaries, Wall Street bonuses, Hollywood money and exercised executive stock options.

Bud Fox was right in one key respect when he asked Gordon Gecko how many yachts he could ski behind. Wall Street is the biggest problem for me, which ties it to exec compensation as well. The advent of securitization brought liquidity and widely available credit to the capital markets. But some of the esoteric stuff they've come up with in recent years makes the Street look less like an investment play and more like Vegas.

Forget burning the Koran, we should burn all the remaining copies of the Preppy Handbook that exist in New York.

[MADXSTER]

I read an interesting article a few years ago.........and how it relates to this thread I have no idea. Anyway, the author was attempting to present two cultures side-by-side and he used two individuals as one of many examples. Specifically, he discussed an Afghan mother who had to sell her oldest child in order to secure food for her youngest child. Then he discussed an NFL super bowl winning lineman who went to a restaurant, ordered a steak, and then told the waitress to keep bringing more steaks until he puked. He closed that segment of his article by simply asking "is there any doubt why they hate us so much".

I'm sure there are excesses in Afganistan as well. But this makes for a better 'Hate America' article. The author was simply spinning the article to fit his ideas.

[GuyFawkes38]

I just read that the Koran burners parish only has 50 people in it.

Why on earth is the press covering this? Why did the Obama administration even talk about it? It's ridiculous.

This should be a non-story. Our press simply sucks and loves to hype up these stories to get themselves and their viewers outraged.

[madness31]

I wonder how many republicans on this board would support high tax rates for those making 5 plus million a year in compensation? The republican party always demonizes this as socialist or the first step in a socialist agenda. The slippery slope argument is usually fear based and nothing more but it seems to consistently work on republican voters.

Supporters of this must hate the flat tax agenda many republicans keep pushing for. They always talk about the benefits of a clean tax code but you can get those benefits with a tiered tax structure too, just need to close all the deductions. Of course you would want to drop the tax rates if you remove the deductions or many will have tax bills rise dramatically.

[smileyy]

Why on earth is the press covering this? Why did the Obama administration even talk about it? It's ridiculous.

The media are very good at inventing narratives, perpetuating them, and then wondering why they're still being talked about.

The inability to connect either of the former to the latter should tell you what you need to know about the quality of the media.

[GuyFawkes38]

I wonder how many republicans on this board would support high tax rates for those making 5 plus million a year in compensation? The republican party always demonizes this as socialist or the first step in a socialist agenda. The slippery slope argument is usually fear based and nothing more but it seems to consistently work on republican voters.

This thread is going to go off topic.

The thing about taxing the extremely rich at very high rates is that it isn't very pragmatic. It simply raises a tiny fraction of the amount of revenue compared to modestly increasing taxes on the upper middle class or the middle class.

When it comes down to it, if you want to increases taxes on the super rich, you do it NOT from a pragmatic perspective, but out of a sense that it's morally wrong to make that type of money.

(in the 50's and 60's when taxes were high, rich workers had extravagant expense accounts to avoid taxes and spend a lot. I suspect that would happen again if the tax rates dramatically increased for the super rich)

[smileyy]

I wonder how many republicans on this board would support high tax rates for those making 5 plus million a year in compensation?

I'd wonder how many of them also believe that "America needs to invest in its businesses".

A fairly obvious side effect of a regressive tax rate is that business owners will be less likely to cash out and run, and more likely to reinvest in business, as the former imposes a dramatic tax penalty.

Edit after seeing GuyFawkes post:
The above is my take on regressive tax rates. Not because it raises money for the government, not because its the "moral/immoral thing to do", but because it creates a healthier economy.

[GuyFawkes38]

A fairly obvious side effect of a regressive tax rate is that business owners will be less likely to cash out and run, and more likely to reinvest in business, as the former imposes a dramatic tax penalty.


When business owners sell their business, they aren't really "cashing out". They are selling the business for the future profits the business will earn (taking into account the discount rate). If the deal is fair, which they usually are, no one wins. The owner is just selling the future profits, which he would have made, in one lump sum.

If I buy a business from an owner who was really important to the operations, I would demand a discount. So his departure sucks for the people in the business, but it also diminishes the value of his business and gives him an incentive to stay and build up the business so it's less dependent on him.

You want an owner to have an eye towards building a company so it functions well without him. If you incentivize owners not to sell their company, that won't happen.

[xudash]

When business owners sell their business, they aren't really "cashing out". They are selling the business for the future profits the business will earn (taking into account the discount rate). If the deal is fair, which they usually are, no one wins. The owner is just selling the future profits, which he would have made, in one lump sum.

If I buy a business from an owner who was really important to the operations, I would demand a discount. So his departure sucks for the people in the business, but it also diminishes the value of his business and gives him an incentive to stay and build up the business so it's less dependent on him.

You want an owner to have an eye towards building a company so it functions well without him. If you incentivize owners not to sell their company, that won't happen.

One of your best posts ever. Allow me to offer that you probably would have insisted on a two to three year consulting/transition agreement, assuming that the chemistry is right and that the owner would, in fact, provide continuity. Keep him or her in the saddle through a logical transition period and then move on from there. If not, consistent with this thread, you would burn the agreement, kick him off the premises and make him move to Gainesville.

[PM Thor]

I wonder what would happen if someone went and burned a Bible right next to his Koran burning, and what type of response there would be.

The guy is a publicity seeking loon. What he is doing is indefensible morally. But with that being said, it's his right to do so, and the Muslims who get offended by it will be playing right into that "ministers" hands.

Either way, what is happening will be taking away from a day where we should really be remembering those who were lost and the greatest human rescue ever accomplished in one incident by a fire department the world over. 343

I HATE dayton.

[GuyFawkes38]

One of your best posts ever. Allow me to offer that you probably would have insisted on a two to three year consulting/transition agreement, assuming that the chemistry is right and that the owner would, in fact, provide continuity. Keep him or her in the saddle through a logical transition period and then move on from there. If not, consistent with this thread, you would burn the agreement, kick him off the premises and make him move to Gainesville.

Thanks dash. I credit the XU business college.

[smileyy]

Guy -

I'm asking totally seriously here -- my knowledge of business finance and administration is sorely lacking -- what's your take on the best way to encourage (re)investment in (preferably domestic) business to create jobs and long-term growth?

[smileyy]

I wonder what would happen if someone went and burned a Bible right next to his Koran burning, and what type of response there would be.


Sadly, they probably wouldn't even get the irony of their reactions.

[Xpectations]

Fact 1: All terrorists behind 9/11 were Muslims
Fact 2: Muslims read the Quran as their holy book and practice their religion in mosques
Conclusion: We should burn Qurans and arbitrarily deny mosques being built in locations where other religious places of worship can be built.

How utterly ridiculous is this? Seriously.

Think about it. It is literally as foolish as faulting Christianity and the Bible for the mass molestation of young children by priests. Should we burn our Bibles and denounce Christianity for those heinous acts, many of which were systematically covered up by the Church?

The Quran no more teaches someone they ought to kill innocent civilians with planes than the Bible teaches clergy to have sex with children.

You can't control thought, nor should you. Everyone has a right to their opinion, however idiotic it may be.

[xu95]

I wonder how many republicans on this board would support high tax rates for those making 5 plus million a year in compensation? The republican party always demonizes this as socialist or the first step in a socialist agenda. The slippery slope argument is usually fear based and nothing more but it seems to consistently work on republican voters.

Supporters of this must hate the flat tax agenda many republicans keep pushing for. They always talk about the benefits of a clean tax code but you can get those benefits with a tiered tax structure too, just need to close all the deductions. Of course you would want to drop the tax rates if you remove the deductions or many will have tax bills rise dramatically.

Not me. It is not fair to tax someone higher who is successful just because of his success. The only fair way to tax people is by a national sales tax. That takes care of the people who are currently getting around the system as well.

xu95

[coasterville95]

What makes all this interesting is that all this is being casued by one nutjob 'pastor' looking for fame. With as many military heads, the president, world leaders, religious leaders, etc. concerned about this to the point they consider it a threat to the safety of the community, why said pastor is still around to do this? Why hasn't he "disappeared"?

As one who is traveling to Europe, with a Christian-American group within the month, you betcha I am deeply troubled by this...

[boozehound]

Obama Weighs in (http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/national/Obama-implores-minister-to-call-off-Quran-burning-)

Is this really necessary? I get that this is a stupid thing to do, and that it makes no sense, but this guys parish has like 50 members. There are way more f'd up groups out there with far more members than that.

We are playing right into this asshat's hands with the publicity he is getting.

[Kahns Krazy]

this has to be the weirdest mixed thread ever. How the hell did the tax rate on people earning over $5 million a year get mixed up with a total whack-job minister's bizarre stab at infamy?

[xudash]

I blame the end of Monty Python for this. It's left nothing but free time for Terry Jones to do things like this.

Kahns, I went back through the thread and determined that it is BBC's fault due to bringing up Monte Python.

[DC Muskie]

This is pretty funny. This guy will either hear from God Himself, OR a being of even greater power, the president Himself.

Hilarious.

I might decide to take a dump on a Koran so I can get Al Roker to interview me.

[SixFig]

I think the college basketball season needs to get here soon so I don't even need to think about morons like this guy.

[X-band '01]

Obama Weighs in (http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/national/Obama-implores-minister-to-call-off-Quran-burning-)

Is this really necessary? I get that this is a stupid thing to do, and that it makes no sense, but this guys parish has like 50 members. There are way more f'd up groups out there with far more members than that.

We are playing right into this asshat's hands with the publicity he is getting.

Maybe the parish has 50 members, but there are a lot more nutcases out there who support the burning. As commander-in-chief of the armed forces, Obama has to weigh in because publicizing a stunt like this (on the anniversary of 9/11, no less) is potentially putting troops AND citizens, domestic and abroad, at risk.

I agree with you that this minister is making this into a "look at me" moment. I've also read that the minister is now packing a handgun around as a self-defense measure. That alone should tell you that the minister knows he's going to stir up trouble.

[smileyy]

The only fair way to tax people is by a national sales tax

Sales taxes are among the most regressive taxes in existence. Lower incomes spend dramatically more of their incomes on taxable goods than higher incomes.

WA has no state income tax, and does most of its funding through sales taxes, which impacts lower incomes disproportionately. This was broken down in The Stranger this week (one of Seattle's left wing weekly newspapers):

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/tax-the-filthy-rich/Content?oid=4837455

[BBC 08]

Kahns, I went back through the thread and determined that it is BBC's fault due to bringing up Monte Python.

Just trying to bring a little levity to the depressingness that is this situation.

[Snipe]

I am just glad this internet pastor with a congregation of 20 represents all of Christianity.

Amen. Why does he get pub?


At first I thought this had to be a Snipe post, but then he would never admit to his irrelevance.

I would admit to my irrelevance. I bask in it.


I just read that the Koran burners parish only has 50 people in it.

Why on earth is the press covering this? Why did the Obama administration even talk about it? It's ridiculous.

This should be a non-story. Our press simply sucks and loves to hype up these stories to get themselves and their viewers outraged.

The media in this country have failed us by hyping this story. They are a bunch of idiots.


The media are very good at inventing narratives, perpetuating them, and then wondering why they're still being talked about.

The inability to connect either of the former to the latter should tell you what you need to know about the quality of the media.

Good point. They are a bunch of idiots.



What makes all this interesting is that all this is being casued by one nutjob 'pastor' looking for fame. With as many military heads, the president, world leaders, religious leaders, etc. concerned about this to the point they consider it a threat to the safety of the community, why said pastor is still around to do this? Why hasn't he "disappeared"?



300 million Americans, and a psycho decides to do something to get himself pub, and everyone falls for it. And even the President chimes in. B.H. Obama doesn't know what he is doing. He is in over his head. The man doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut.

I guess we aren't the ones we have been waiting for after all.


Obama Weighs in (http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/national/Obama-implores-minister-to-call-off-Quran-burning-)

Is this really necessary? I get that this is a stupid thing to do, and that it makes no sense, but this guys parish has like 50 members. There are way more f'd up groups out there with far more members than that.

We are playing right into this asshat's hands with the publicity he is getting.

He gets his 15 minutes of fame, and Obama gets to condemn an "Extreme Christian". Everyone uses this story for their own perverted angle. Shameless.

I think in a similar way about the "Ground Zero Mosque". A couple of guys bought a property in New York City during the height of the property bubble. They were going to turn it into condos and flip it. The real estate market fell through. They can't see the property without taking a loss. They even owe back taxes on it. They can't afford the upkeep.

Then they come up with a plan for a 100 million dollar project. Who do you think would make millions from that? They would. They don't have the million dollars, but they salivate thinking about the development fees. Soon everyone is talking about a project that isn't even funded. These guys aren't serious players, they are guys who owe taxes on the property and can't afford to maintain it. But with all the publicity, they may very well get something out of it. The Governor of New York has offered them assistance to move it. It would be hilarious if they made money off this scam and never even built the mosque. They could be paid to go away. I think they would take it.

blah blah blah.

[Snipe]

Sales taxes are among the most regressive taxes in existence. Lower incomes spend dramatically more of their incomes on taxable goods than higher incomes.

WA has no state income tax, and does most of its funding through sales taxes, which impacts lower incomes disproportionately. This was broken down in The Stranger this week (one of Seattle's left wing weekly newspapers):

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/tax-the-filthy-rich/Content?oid=4837455

The Fairtax is a national sales tax that is progressive. Fairtax.org. One of the best ideas on the docket.

[coasterville95]

Well - one take away is the next time you think "I'm only one person, what difference can I make" Well, if you are a big enough nutjob, with the correct connections to the media, obviously quite a lot.

[American X]

How much carbon emissions would this burning Koran produce?

If the violent Islamists are such a tiny minority of Muslims, why do we have to be so cautious about offending their sensibilities?

If we agree Islamists do not truly represent Islam, can Muslims agree Pastor Jones does not truly represent Christianity and America?

My thanks to the Pastor for doing the heavy lifting of widespread Islamophobia for the rest of us.

Mostly my compliments to the media for transforming a publicity stunt into news.

[X-band '01]

Well, the Koran burning has now been called off by Jones. He's saying it's because the proposed Ground Zero Mosque won't be built as originally planned, although the Muslim clerics in question are denying such a deal to move the mosque is in place.

Hopefully that's the last we hear of this clown for a while.

[coasterville95]

To the OP (Waggy) - I did, several years ago (try 2001 or 2002) start to read a Koran just to get an idea of what Islam really says vs. what the media/talking heads say it says. I don't recall getting very far into it. I keep meaning to pick it back up.

[GuyFawkes38]

To the OP (Waggy) - I did, several years ago (try 2001 or 2002) start to read a Koran just to get an idea of what Islam really says vs. what the media/talking heads say it says. I don't recall getting very far into it. I keep meaning to pick it back up.

I've heard it's close to unreadable (unless you have a liberal translation) and that it highlights that Judiasm, Christianity, and Islam are all very different religions (not that that's a bad or good thing).

[waggy]

I don't think Judaism and Christianity are all that different. Maybe from a Jews perspective.

[GuyFawkes38]

yeah, I think although Judiasm and Chrisitianity are different, most Jews and Christians have a good understanding of each other's religious perspective (of course, Judiasm played a major role in the development of Christianity, so it's natural that there's a common understanding).

In contrast, I've heard that the Quran has a difficult, foreign feel to it (again, not that that's good or bad).

[BBC 08]

Terry Jones, for now, is back to the top of my favorite Monty Python member list.

[Strange Brew]

Well, the Koran burning has now been called off by Jones. He's saying it's because the proposed Ground Zero Mosque won't be built as originally planned, although the Muslim clerics in question are denying such a deal to move the mosque is in place.

Hopefully that's the last we hear of this clown for a while.

Who, the Imam or the Pastor?

[blobfan]

This is pretty funny. This guy will either hear from God Himself, OR a being of even greater power, the president Himself.

Hilarious.

I might decide to take a dump on a Koran so I can get Al Roker to interview me.
How about using it as origami? It's much less threatening and you can sell it on ebay. Call it Quranigami. That's seems more up Al's alley. He's more of a soft news kind of guy, isn't he?


...300 million Americans, and a psycho decides to do something to get himself pub, and everyone falls for it. And even the President chimes in. B.H. Obama doesn't know what he is doing. He is in over his head. The man doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut.
...
Did I just read that?

[coasterville95]

Just thought I'd throw an appropriate link in here:

A free English translation of the Koran (http://www.jannah.org/qurantrans/)

Now that this incident would appear to have been averted - how many days till Muskie Madness again?

[waggy]

Publicity stunt or not, I'm glad someone still has a passion for remembering this anniversary.

[BBC 08]

Koran, have you gotten fat? You look kind of chubby.

- Buuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrnnnnnn -

[DC Muskie]

Publicity stunt or not, I'm glad someone still has a passion for remembering this anniversary.

huh?

[waggy]

You do know what occurred 9 yrs ago today, correct?

[GoMuskies]

You do know what occurred 9 yrs ago today, correct?

Twenty-five years ago was 4,192. Go Pete!

[X-band '01]

You do know what occurred 9 yrs ago today, correct?

Former Winton Woods star Robert Hite made a verbal commitment to play basketball for Miami-Florida.

[bobbiemcgee]

this has to be the weirdest mixed thread ever. How the hell did the tax rate on people earning over $5 million a year get mixed up with a total whack-job minister's bizarre stab at infamy?

I'd be very happy about paying taxes on 5 million.

[DC Muskie]

You do know what occurred 9 yrs ago today, correct?

No please tell me what happened. I have no idea, and it's obvious you have a passion about whatever happened that day.

[Xpectations]

Publicity stunt or not, I'm glad someone still has a passion for remembering this anniversary.

Charles Manson frequently quoted the Bible, and for him, it played a key part in his murder spree. Would burning the Bible be an appropriate remembrance for those he killed?

Sorry, but I can't help but think it's well beyond nutty to consider the burning of the Quran an appropriate remembrance for those who died in a country founded on religious freedom.

[waggy]

Hey, as I stated in post #1, I haven't read it and probably wouldn't burn it. Chances are though it's nothing but garbage. And that's what you should do with garbage.

[Xpectations]

Hey, as I stated in post #1, I haven't read it and probably wouldn't burn it. Chances are though it's nothing but garbage. And that's what you should do with garbage.

Your faith tells you their holy book is wrong. Their faith tells them that your holy book is wrong (actually, bastardized, in this case).

What do you think the odds would be that you would be Christian had you been born a Muslim in most Islamic nations? I can answer that. The odds are so overwhelmingly low it's not even worth discussing. And if you think the light bulb would have gone off uniquely for you, transforming you into a Christian, that's simply delusional.

So you can call it "garbage." That's your opinion. You can even burn it or wish it burned. You have every right to think that, just as I have every right to think that couldn't be more wacky.

But beyond that, what the hell does the Quran have to do with 9/11? It has no more to do with it than blaming the Bible for Charles Manson's actions. Why would you burn any holy book and think its an appropriate remembrance to honor those who lost their lives in the 9/11 tragedy?

If you can't see that as bizarre beyond words I'm not sure you've been reading the Good Word.

[DC Muskie]

Hey, as I stated in post #1, I haven't read it and probably wouldn't burn it. Chances are though it's nothing but garbage. And that's what you should do with garbage.

He hasn't read it, but is sure it's full of garbage.

I like the way waggy thinks. Doesn't matter if it's science, or religion.

Gotta love that.

We need more passion in this country!

[coasterville95]

I was going to say, nice use of that Xavier Jesuit education - to be passionate in declaring something as garbage that you haven't even read.

I remember in my junior year, when scoring that Theology credit, one of the options available was to take a course studying one of the world's other religions. I believe Judaism and Islam were at least two of the options. (Taught by a Rabbi and a Imam respectively) I opted for the Judasim option, in a case of "If I knew then, what I know now", I might have elected the Islam option as that may have served me better in understanding the issues we currently face. Though I did go up to the West Chester Islamic center shortly after 9/11 when their community relations department was putting on an open house presentation, not aimed at conversion, but at understanding their beliefs and practices. I still have a DVD they distrubuted at that meeting.

Going further back in the thread - I think it was Snipe who brought up the backstory of the Ground Zero Mosque - and the crazyness surrounding that, as it pertains to the developer and their finances. Now, our dear Pastor down in Florida says he will call the event off, but only if he meets with, you guessed it, the guy spearheading the Ground Zero Mosque. Suddenly the two stories become intertwined. Just watch 5 years down the road, we will find out they were in cahoots to suddenly a) make a very lucrative sale on the Ground Zero land to prevent the Mosque being built there and b) probably getting a great deal on that proposed alternative site. Then the two men will split whatever earnings they made off of this publicty stunt/ international scare/ money raising scam.

[waggy]

I'm not going to go thru each or your posts and disect all the things I didn't say. Just want to point out there is a lot.

If you wish go to YouTube and peruse for all the hate and disrespect for this country. Very easy to find. And these people aren't representing themselves from a specific country, but with Islam.

As an alternative, go hug a suicide bomber. Just don't squeeze too tightly. Or do.

[madness31]

Waggy you seem like someone who might have yelled "crucify him" had you been born at the right location and time in history to voice such a cry.

You have to avoid the fear based reactions and avoid group think or you will end up making or encouraging very bad decisions.

Should Christianity be judged based on the crusades? Should it be judged based on the actions of the priests that got too friendly with the young boys at their parish?

There are many poor and uneducated people in the middle east which makes it easy to prey on their suffering. Evil people with an agenda teach lies to these suffering people and manipulate them into believing terrible things. The Iraq and Afghan invasion only made that an easier sell, especially when you consider some of these people know someone who has been severely injured or killed in colateral damage of the war. It wouldn't be hard to convince those people that the US is waging a war against Islam when they are suffering and likely searching for answers as to why this has happened to their loved ones.

[waggy]

Group think? Uh, looks like I'm out-numbered. And I hope no one is taking me too seriously.