Butler's Hayward NBA bound

[LutherRackleyRulez]

Per Goodman/FoxSports....


INDY STAR:
GORDON HAYWARD REMAINING IN NBA DRAFT

Gordon Hayward is gone.

The Indianapolis Star’s Jeff Rabjohns is reporting that Butler’s sophomore forward will make an announcement on Friday that he is forgoing his final two seasons in college.

According to multiple NBA executives, the 6-foot-8 Hayward – who helped lead Butler to the national championship game in April – will be selected somewhere in the middle of the first round.

Hayward averaged 15.5 points and 8.2 rebounds per game last season.



http://www.indystar.com/article/20100505/SPORTS0605/100505020/1004/SPORTS/Butler-s-Gordon-Hayward-to-stay-in-NBA-draft




http://community.foxsports.com/goodmanonfox/blog/2010/05/05/indy_star:_gordon_hayward_remaining_in_nba_draft;

[D-West & PO-Z]

Per Goodman/FoxSports....


INDY STAR:
GORDON HAYWARD REMAINING IN NBA DRAFT

Gordon Hayward is gone.

The Indianapolis Star’s Jeff Rabjohns is reporting that Butler’s sophomore forward will make an announcement on Friday that he is forgoing his final two seasons in college.

According to multiple NBA executives, the 6-foot-8 Hayward – who helped lead Butler to the national championship game in April – will be selected somewhere in the middle of the first round.

Hayward averaged 15.5 points and 8.2 rebounds per game last season.


http://www.indystar.com/article/20100505/SPORTS0605/100505020/1004/SPORTS/Butler-s-Gordon-Hayward-to-stay-in-NBA-draft[/ur

[url]http://community.foxsports.com/goodmanonfox/blog/2010/05/05/indy_star:_gordon_hayward_remaining_in_nba_draft;





I would say the trade off for Butler and their fans was worth it. Huge season for Hayward sends him to the pros but not before taking Butler to the finals.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

He should. He's a 1st round lock. He got a ton of exposure during their NCAA run...I look forward to watching him in the NBA

[X Factor]

I like Hayward a lot as a college player and think he was terrific, but I'm not too high on him as an NBA player. Can you say Joe Alexander? Alexander was the 8th pick overall in '08 and hasn't done jack squat in the NBA.

Hayward is physically weak, a good athlete, but not great. He struggled big time from distance this past year, shooting 29% from three.

I think Derrick Brown has a better overall skill set and he was a middle 2nd rounder.

I know Hayward will get drafted in the first round, most likely, but I don't see him having an impact as a rookie.

It's a BIG loss for Butler though.

[GuyFawkes38]

I like Hayward a lot as a college player and think he was terrific, but I'm not too high on him as an NBA player. Can you say Joe Alexander? Alexander was the 8th pick overall in '08 and hasn't done jack squat in the NBA.

Hayward is physically weak, a good athlete, but not great. He struggled big time from distance this past year, shooting 29% from three.

I think Derrick Brown has a better overall skill set and he was a middle 2nd rounder.

I know Hayward will get drafted in the first round, most likely, but I don't see him having an impact as a rookie.

It's a BIG loss for Butler though.

I completely agree. It really makes me wonder if race has something to do with it.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I completely agree. It really makes me wonder if race has something to do with it.

yeah because a lot of NBA teams are dying to pay a young kid millions of dollars just because he is white.

[GuyFawkes38]

yeah because a lot of NBA teams are dying to pay a young kid millions of dollars just because he is white.

According to this blogger, ESPN ran a story on the matter:


White Star is needed to elevate the NBA
with 4 comments

I am a huge fan of sports and that is pretty much all I watch on tv. I was watching Outside the Line, a show on ESPN and they were talking about potential 2010 draft prospect for the NBA. One of the player they talked about was Gordon Hayward, from Butler University. Gordon is white and he is a very talented player. The debate was that Gordon can be the “white Star” that the NBA need to make it rise to a higher level than it is now. Often times when you hear people speak of stars in the NBA, you usually hear the name Dwayne Wade, Lebron James, Kobe Bryant, and all of those stars are African Americans. Although this is the case, I would rather them label these stars as just “Stars” instead of black stars or white stars. I don’t think that people should make race an issue when it comes to sports because I like sports because of the nature of it not because of which race that’s playing it. So it was kind of weird to hear them debating about him being a “white star” that will change somehow change the league since Larry Bird instead of labeling him as just a star.

I think it's wrong, but NBA GMs do take it into consideration.

[D-West & PO-Z]

According to this blogger, ESPN ran a story on the matter:

That is a completely separate issue from a team taking him just because he is white.

A team will not take him if the do not believe he will be a productive NBA player.

[GuyFawkes38]

That is a completely separate issue from a team taking him just because he is white.

how so?

[GuyFawkes38]

I can't find the article. But I'm pretty sure that Mark Cuban said a few years ago that, all things being equal, he would love to have an American white star on his team to engage his white fan base.

I'm sure David Stern was pissed.

[D-West & PO-Z]

how so?

Xfactor said he didn't think Hayward would be good in the NBA. You agreed and wondered if race was the reason Hayward was being seen as a 1st rd prospect.

A GM will not take Hayward in the first rd just because he is white. What you posted does not say that person thinks that. That article calls Hayward a really talented player who some see a a guy who can be the next white star. Not Hayward is no good and he is being considered just because he is white.

[GuyFawkes38]

Xfactor said he didn't think Hayward would be good in the NBA. You agreed and wondered if race was the reason Hayward was being seen as a 1st rd prospect.

A GM will not take Hayward in the first rd just because he is white. What you posted does not say that person thinks that. That article calls Hayward a really talented player who some see a a guy who can be the next white star. Not Hayward is no good and he is being considered just because he is white.

I did not say that. I said:


I completely agree. It really makes me wonder if race has something to do with it.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I did not say that. I said:

You completely agreed to a post where a poster stated that he didn't think Hayward was going to be good in the NBA and then stated you wonder if race has something to do with him being drafted high. Your posted article from so blogger does not support your thought. Sure a team might like to have a really good white American player as there aren't too many of them, but they will not draft a white American player if they don't also think he will be very good.

[GuyFawkes38]

You completely agreed to a post where a poster stated that he didn't think Hayward was going to be good in the NBA and then stated you wonder if race has something to do with him being drafted high. Your posted article from so blogger does not support your thought. Sure a team might like to have a really good white American player as there aren't too many of them, but they will not draft a white American player if they don't also think he will be very good.



Again, I have no doubt that talent is the primary factor when a team selects a player. But that doesn't mean race has some role (and that's what I originally stated).

And you seem to agree with that in the bold section of your paragraph.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Again, I have no doubt that talent is the primary factor when a team selects a player. But that doesn't mean race has some role (and that's what I originally stated).

And again I will tell you what you posted doesn't support your thought that race has so ethi g to do with it.

[GuyFawkes38]

And again I will tell you what you posted doesn't support your thought that race has so ethi g to do with it.

Heh, I posted something which argued that NBA teams are looking for a white superstar. But your right, race has nothing to do with it.

I'm really trying to be less sarcastic.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Heh, I posted something which argued that NBA teams are looking for a white superstar. But your right, race has nothing to do with it.

I'm really trying to be less sarcastic.

Nowhere in what you posted did it argue that NBA teams are looking for the next whit superstar. All it said was there was a debate about whether or not Hayward could be the next white superstar.

[GuyFawkes38]

Nowhere in what you posted did it argue that NBA teams are looking for the next whit superstar. All it said was there was a debate about whether or not Hayward could be the next white superstar.

So by this logic, having a white superstar would be great for the NBA, but not an NBA team.

[waggy]

:D

[GuyFawkes38]

I have to give Dwest credit.

He is clearly, 100% wrong (just reread this thread). But he's putting up a fight.

[D-West & PO-Z]

So by this logic, having a white superstar would be great for the NBA, but not an NBA team.

Having any superstar would be great for an NBA team. If he happens to be white and that somehow benefits that team they will be happy. However, no team is going to reach for them higher than he should go because he is white, and it's not like he is going to be a top 5 pick, probably not top 10.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I have to give Dwest credit.

He is clearly, 100% wrong (just reread this thread). But he's putting up a fight.

Ha coming from the guy who gave Chris Mack a B- on this past season.

[GuyFawkes38]

Having any superstar would be great for an NBA team. If he happens to be white and that somehow benefits that team they will be happy. However, no team is going to reach for them higher than he should go because he is white, and it's not like he is going to be a top 5 pick, probably not top 10.

You agree with me that teams would like to have a white superstar. I think it's stupid. But teams would like to have the next Larry Bird (or even Anderson of the Nuggets....he's a big deal and maybe race has something to do with it).

But for some reason, you refuse to even acknowledge the possibility that a team might be willing to take more of a risk on a white player, because the payoff might be bigger.

[D-West & PO-Z]

You agree with me that teams would like to have a white superstar. I think it's stupid. But teams would like to have the next Larry Bird (or even Anderson of the Nuggets....he's a big deal and maybe race has something to do with it).

But for some reason, you refuse to even acknowledge the possibility that a team might be willing to take more of a risk on a white player, because the payoff might be bigger.

Exactly. I think if the white superstar is there a team would take him and be happy. Some may think that is Hayward. However, I don't think a team is going to try and reach for a white guy who isn't a superstar or try and convince themselves a guy is a superstar, just because he is white. We disagree on that point. That's fine. I don't know why you think it is strange that I don't think that.

And btw, I am still correct is saying your "article" doesn't support any of your argument. :D

[Juice]

You agree with me that teams would like to have a white superstar. I think it's stupid. But teams would like to have the next Larry Bird (or even Anderson of the Nuggets....he's a big deal and maybe race has something to do with it).

But for some reason, you refuse to even acknowledge the possibility that a team might be willing to take more of a risk on a white player, because the payoff might be bigger.

Just like the Pacers did with Hansborough?

The Pacers might be the whitest team ever. I don't think its a coincidence that the state they call home was once the headquarters of the KKK.

[GuyFawkes38]

I guess we can agree to disagree.

We both agree that there might be benefits of having a white American superstar basketball player (I think we'd also both agree it's stupid, but it's a reality).

Because there are benefits, it seems like it's impossible not to admit that a team might be willing to take more of a risk on a white player. It's like investing in a stock. If the stock has a higher possibility for a big time payout, you'd be more willing to take a risk on that stock.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Just like the Pacers did with Hansborough?

The Pacers might be the whitest team ever. I don't think its a coincidence that the state they call home was once the headquarters of the KKK.

See I actually think Tyler Hansborough helps dispell guy's theory. I think he would have been taken much higher than 13th if a team was reaching to find a white superstar. I think 13 was pretty appropriate.

[GuyFawkes38]

it might be a coincidence, but Larry Bird had a lot of controversial things to say on this subject:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1818396

[D-West & PO-Z]

it might be a coincidence, but Larry Bird had a lot of controversial things to say on this subject:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1818396

Like I've said, I don't disagree that a team may be thrilled to have a superstar white American player, because there are almost none of them, but I just don't think teams want or need one bad enough to waste a draft pick hoping a guy turns into one when they don't really think chances are he will be one. I don't think a team would pass up a guy they have rated higher for the chance to hit on the next potential white superstar.

[Juice]

See I actually think Tyler Hansborough helps dispell guy's theory. I think he would have been taken much higher than 13th if a team was reaching to find a white superstar. I think 13 was pretty appropriate.

Well I thought he was an absolute reach at 13, but it is too early to tell. But it is funny that the guys he is fighting for playing time with are Josh McRoberts and Troy Murphy.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Well I thought he was an absolute reach at 13, but it is too early to tell. But it is funny that the guys he is fighting for playing time with are Josh McRoberts and Troy Murphy.

Ha that is funny.

[D-West & PO-Z]

One of my friends and I were bored one day in class a while back so we decided to write down as many white American players as we could think of. Guys who played college ball here but weren't American didn't count. So no Nash or Bogut allowed. I think I got to like 15-20 and then I was completely stuck. He is obssesd with the NBA so he got to like the 40's or more. I challenge anyone to try it without cheating. It's not that there are tons but most suck and you forget about them.

[D-West & PO-Z]

David Lee and Chris Kaman where the only white American players to make the all star game this year. David Lee will probably get a max deal this free agency. He could be considered a superstar when though he doesn't get the attention on a bad knicks team. His numbers are. Lot better than I think most realize. Dude is a monster.

[smileyy]

Anyone who signs David Lee to a max contract is crippling themselves. I'm not saying he's a bad player. He's just not the guy you sign to a max contract. Unless you're an idiot. Like a lot of NBA GM's are.

[smileyy]

Also, I'd rate Hayward's handle, motor, and basketball IQ all higher than Derrick Brown's. Not a knock on Brown. Hayward can be a good role-player for a team.

[Frank D.]

Anyone who signs David Lee to a max contract is crippling themselves. I'm not saying he's a bad player. He's just not the guy you sign to a max contract. Unless you're an idiot. Like a lot of NBA GM's are.

Yeah, you have to be careful with guys who play in D'Antoni's system. Their numbers are always inflated.

[Muskie1000]

personally, (whether white or black) - if they are saying he's a first rounder, he would be stupid not to go. Here is the difference between him and Crawford. Hayward and his team went to the NC - not saying they couldn't do it again, but the odds aren't great in that factor. There are way too many uncertainties, unknowns, etc... He stays at Butler and say they even make it to the Elite 8, still great, but not as memorable as this year. His stock would probably not ever go higher than it is now. I know the same argument could be said for Crawford, but sweet 16 and NC are not even close. And right now we know Crawford is on the border between 1st and 2nd round, same can't be said for Hayward.

[ballyhoohoo]

I swaer Larry Bird is working on an all white NBA team, he likes looking in the mirror. Here is a conversation I have with my buddy.

Me: did you see Larry Bird was at the NCAA title game
Brian: yeah, he looked really excited, all those white kids on the floor must has gave him a boner

[danaandvictory]

Nowhere in what you posted did it argue that NBA teams are looking for the next whit superstar. All it said was there was a debate about whether or not Hayward could be the next white superstar.

You're better off going outside, finding the nearest telephone pole, and stapling your balls to it than arguing about anything with Guy.

[LutherRackleyRulez]

Per DraftExpress....



Finding a Niche for Gordon Hayward

One of the most highly debated prospects in this draft, Butler’s miraculous tournament put the unassuming Gordon Hayward in the national spotlight. Projected all over the board, the mid-major star is certainly talented, but he elicits as wide a range of opinions as any prospect in this draft.

Gordon Hayward
6-8, Sophomore, Small Forward, Butler
15.5 Points, 8.2 Rebounds, 1.2 Assists, 2.3 Turnovers,
1.1 Steals, 29.4% 3FG, 46.4% FG, 82.9% FT

The last time we checked in on Gordon Hayward (in mid-January), he was only a few months away from one of the most improbable NCAA tournament runs in recent history. Coming up inches short of a historic upset, Hayward was the catalyst for the Bulldogs’ run in March and improved his draft stock with his heady play. While his game has some scouts swearing by his ability to emerge as a Mike Miller-type complementary scorer, Hayward still has his detractors. His status as a small conference star with questionable athleticism elicits a wide spectrum of opinions when projecting him to the next level.


http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Finding-a-Niche-for-Gordon-Hayward-3454/

[ford]

[color=darkblue]
While his game has some scouts swearing by his ability to emerge as a [B]Mike Miller-type complementary scorer


and there you have it. love it how the immediate comparisons for white players are ALWAYS other white players. i didn't read the whole thread but I'm sure it proves someone's point.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Also, I'd rate Hayward's handle, motor, and basketball IQ all higher than Derrick Brown's. Not a knock on Brown. Hayward can be a good role-player for a team.


Yeah, you have to be careful with guys who play in D'Antoni's system. Their numbers are always inflated.

He might not deserve a max deal . Honestly I think very few players do but I bet he is closer than you think. He led the league last year in double doubles. His state are just as good as Amare's (3 points less, 3 rebounds more 2 assists more) and people are saying he is a max player. Talk about a guy who people should be worried about leaving a "system". I will be interested to see Amare play a whole year and longer without Steve Nas constantly setting him up for dunk after dunk.

[smileyy]

I wouldn't give Amar'e a max deal either, but I'm also not a lot of NBA GM's. They're probably pretty comparable players, though, in terms of production and defensive sieve-ness.

[LA Muskie]

This is a dumb debate. And all other things being equal, I'd like to have Cheryl Cole as my team's star.

[vee4xu]

Good riddance.

[GuyFawkes38]

I've read a lot of media reports of the draft. Basically everyone believes Hayward will be a bust. I'm not a big fan either. It'll be interesting to see how well he plays. In all honesty, I would rather draft Lance Stephenson (attitude and character concerns are overrated).

[Muskie]

I've read a lot of media reports of the draft. Basically everyone believes Hayward will be a bust. I'm not a big fan either. It'll be interesting to see how well he plays. In all honesty, I would rather draft Lance Stephenson (attitude and character concerns are overrated).

They are not to most Pacers fans...

[smileyy]

Lance Stephenson will either be a complete bust, or a very useful NBA player. He was the perfect 2nd round pick in that regard.

I tend to hope the best for people, so I hope he puts it together...besides, it's not like he can help UC anymore :D

[rhyno2110]

Lance Stephenson will either be a complete bust, or a very useful NBA player. He was the perfect 2nd round pick in that regard.

I tend to hope the best for people, so I hope he puts it together...besides, it's not like he can help UC anymore :D

Ehh, he's still a dick, so I can't really wish him well. I won't forget the time he showboated in front of the Xavier bench.

[Cincypunk.org]

Ehh, he's still a dick, so I can't really wish him well. I won't forget the time he showboated in front of the Xavier bench.

Kids, and that is what they are, do dumb things sometimes. Get over it.

[DoubleD86]

Ehh, he's still a dick, so I can't really wish him well. I won't forget the time he showboated in front of the Xavier bench.

So you must really hate Mark Lyons and Jordan Crawford too then?

I am sorry but what someone does on the court in terms of competitiveness and attitude have almost zero reflection on that person's character. Not to mention, you are talking about what he did in one of the most heated rivalry games in college basketball. Lance Stephenson is not a dick because he showboated, much like Lyons and Crawford are not dicks for showboating.

I for one wish the best for Lance, I never want people to fail, but I honestly won't care too much either way.