View Full Version : Big Ten Fast-Tracking Expansion Plans
Masterofreality
06-15-2010, 09:17 AM
I think this is hilarious.
College sports are such a farce. It's beyond laughable.
So here are my predictions:
Colorado to the Pac 10
Nebraska to the Big Ten
Utah to the Pac 10
TCU to the Big 12
Boise State to the MWC
Call it a day.
Hilarious.
Hilarious- and clairvoyant. Reps.
But the thread would have only been 2 pages. Think of all the wasted bandwidth! Oh, the horror!
JimmyTwoTimes37
06-15-2010, 04:23 PM
Its important to note that Texas Tech is still not committed to this new Big 12/10. Their regents have had a meeting behind closed doors for over an hour.
They are very upset at Beebe over making less than A&M.
I think they will end up in the new Big 12 - 2, but its not a done deal yet as of 4:30 pm EST
JimmyTwoTimes37
06-15-2010, 04:35 PM
Ok, Now its official. Tech staying in Big 12-2.
No Armeggedon for College Conferences
X-band '01
06-18-2010, 08:27 AM
Now that Utah is officially set to join the Pac-10, there have been no plans for the Big 12 to immediately add replacement members. Houston is lobbying for membership there, although I haven't heard of TCU looking to get in themselves.
xudash
06-18-2010, 12:10 PM
I believe we're going back to where we were before the Pac10 moved a key piece on its chess board, coming up with the "6 from the BigXII idea" to force the Big10 into a faster pace of action.
Now that things have slowed with the Pac 10, I suspect Delaney will continue to huddle up with his Chicago M&A firm to analyze their options along the timeframe he had originally intended.
It isn't necessarily over. We aren't going to end up with a tectonic shift - most likely - since the Big XII found a way to take its KY Jelly application to stay together in a way that appeased Texas. All that aside, if the business model says go to 14 or 16, then the Big10 will continue to make noise and havoc, and the BE will most likely be the conference most definitely at risk.
How about a world where, by sometime next year, Xavier is headed to the BE (hoops only) and UC gets to reform C-USA. It would be a damn shame.
bourbonman
06-18-2010, 12:52 PM
Any truth to the rumor Memphis & Central Florida are being pursued by the Big East?
Any truth to the rumor Memphis & Central Florida are being pursued by the Big East?
They can go to the BE all they want, but if they are replacing Pitt and Syracuse than there will be no more BCS affiliation for the BE and they might as well have not expanded.
xu95
Juice
06-18-2010, 01:42 PM
Any truth to the rumor Memphis & Central Florida are being pursued by the Big East?
The Big East has denied any interest.
muskienick
06-19-2010, 12:51 PM
Why would any of the non-football Big East members vote for the League to admit two additional football schools into the Conference? I'd like to hear just one advantage to the BB schools if this were to happen. That is why the FB schools are in a world of hurt if even one of their gridiron members jumps elsewhere (Big 10 or ACC). They would have to split from the BB schools to get additional FB members. Either that, or talk the BB schools into being stone stupid!
waggy
06-19-2010, 01:06 PM
I'd like to hear just one advantage to the BB schools if this were to happen.
To maintain BCS affiliation.
DoubleD86
06-19-2010, 11:43 PM
To maintain BCS affiliation.
How does that benefit the BB only schools? I don't know the payout structure but the BB schools don't get a piece of the bowl $ pie do they?
waggy
06-20-2010, 12:04 AM
DD, How often have X coaches and fans had to answer the mid-major question? Yet the likes of Villanova and G-Town get a free pass.
DoubleD86
06-21-2010, 02:54 AM
DD, How often have X coaches and fans had to answer the mid-major question? Yet the likes of Villanova and G-Town get a free pass.
But do you honestly think a BB only Big East containing those historical powerhouses would get the same questioning?
In my opinion, absolutely not. The reason X and A-10 faces those is because they are smaller, less known programs with (for the most part) less of a storied history. Not to mention, it would be widely known that those schools are not in a BCS league because of the expansion. I don't think the BB only schools of the Big East would be harmed at all by not being designated as a BCS conference, because they would still have some of the better programs in basketball.
muskienick
06-21-2010, 10:40 AM
To maintain BCS affiliation.
Basketball is not affiliated with the BCS. That is solely a football designation.
Villanova and Georgetown can legitimately claim to be Big Six programs but they would never describe themselves as being BCS (until or unless they up-grade their football programs).
LA Muskie
06-21-2010, 12:09 PM
Basketball is not affiliated with the BCS. That is solely a football designation.
Villanova and Georgetown can legitimately claim to be Big Six programs but they would never describe themselves as being BCS (until or unless they up-grade their football programs).
I would guess that the entire conference makes more money as a result of being a BCS conference. Even if they don't directly share in the BCS spoils (I have no idea how the BE splits direct football-generated revenue), I am sure there is an indirect benefit at a minimum.
LH doesn't think that Xavier is good enough to play in the Big East. I am ashamed to hear that he is a Xavier fan.
xu95
I never once said that but nice try.
D-West & PO-Z
06-21-2010, 01:10 PM
I never once said that but nice try.
You have basically inferred it. You have compared XU to the likes of DePaul, Seton Hall, and St. Johns. The A10 doesnt get more exposure, doesnt get better recruits, doesnt get more money, has worse teams. You are afraid we wouldnt be successful in the Big East. I think we would be. I think we would be a top 8 team every year in conference. Top 8 teams in that conference get to the NCAA tourney and they get good seeds.
I have done neither, not once.
D-West & PO-Z
06-21-2010, 01:33 PM
I have done neither, not once.
You have said that in joining the Big East, we would not be guaranteed to continue to be the great program we are now, and that it would be easier said then done to be a top 8 team in the Big East, especially as a new entrant.
That means you are doubtful of how successful we would be in the Big East.
It means we know what we have accomplished out of the A10 (which is pretty good) and what we can continue to expect to accomplish out of the A10 and that XU may or may not excel in the BE as one of 16 teams.
D-West & PO-Z
06-21-2010, 01:42 PM
It means we know what we have accomplished out of the A10 (which is pretty good) and what we can continue to expect to accomplish out of the A10 and that XU may or may not excel in the BE as one of 16 teams.
Which means you have doubt we would be successful in the Big East.
Who wouldn't have some doubt but having some doubt and saying "I don't think we WOULD be" are not even close to the same thing. Thanks.
D-West & PO-Z
06-21-2010, 02:01 PM
Who wouldn't have some doubt but having some doubt and saying "I don't think we WOULD be" are not even close to the same thing. Thanks.
Well I'm just saying last year the Big East got 8 teams in the tourney and their second to worse team got the same seed as Xavier (tied for 1st place in the A10).
When you are getting 8 teams in and your 7th best team is getting a 6 seed, that's something I would want to be a part of. All 5 of their top teams got a 3 seed or better. Not too bad.
XU could also be Seton Hall in a 16 team BE. XU is not going to be Fordham in the A10. Understand?
D-West & PO-Z
06-21-2010, 02:23 PM
XU could also be Seton Hall in a 16 team BE. XU is not going to be Fordham in the A10. Understand?
No I dont understand. This is where I disagree. I dont have any worries of XU ever becoming Seton Hall even if they joined the Big East. You do. Not sure why but you do. You think Xavier's success in this Big East scenario would be a crap shoot. I dont.
You think Seton wants to suck? You have no clue.
waggy
06-21-2010, 02:42 PM
But do you honestly think a BB only Big East containing those historical powerhouses would get the same questioning?
Interesting to think about. It should be a more respected conference than X's current situation, but I think it is at least reasonable to wonder how things might play out. The A10 has some programs with potential.
I don't think the BB only schools of the Big East would be harmed at all by not being designated as a BCS conference, because they would still have some of the better programs in basketball.
BCS affliation is definitely a pretty big positive for BB only schools imo, but I don't know how to quantify it. Some smart person could probably put a dollar value on it.
Basketball is not affiliated with the BCS. That is solely a football designation.
Hmmm. Seems to me that there are a bunch of BB only schools in the BE that sure are "affiliated" with the BCS, given that they are members of a BCS conference.
Villanova and Georgetown can legitimately claim to be Big Six programs but they would never describe themselves as being BCS (until or unless they up-grade their football programs).
I guess it's how one words it, because they most certainly are members of and play in a BCS conference.
D-West & PO-Z
06-21-2010, 03:07 PM
You think Seton wants to suck? You have no clue.
We have been over this. Wanting something and having the dedication and resources and drive to get it are completely different things. Xavier has made the commitment to be successful in basketball and I have no doubt that would continue no matter what conference Xavier played in.
You have no idea how hard Seton Hall or any of the small Catholic schools in the BE are trying to be in the top 8. Before the BE got so big, Seton Hall, St. John's and Providence all enjoyed decent NCAA success. Now they can't get out of the bottom third most years or bottom half on a regular basis. It is very hard to stay in the top 8 year in and year out.
What does XU gain by joining such a tough league that it cannot acheive out of the A10? What would XU be giving up by joining the BE?
D-West & PO-Z
06-21-2010, 03:32 PM
You have no idea how hard Seton Hall or any of the small Catholic schools in the BE are trying to be in the top 8. Before the BE got so big, Seton Hall, St. John's and Providence all enjoyed decent NCAA success. Now they can't get out of the bottom third most years or bottom half on a regular basis. It is very hard to stay in the top 8 year in and year out.
What does XU gain by joining such a tough league that it cannot acheive out of the A10? What would XU be giving up by joining the BE?
I never claimed to know how hard Seton Hall tries to become a big time basketball player. I do know how much work Xavier puts in. I know Marquette has been in the top 8 every year in the Big East. I know Xavier has never had better than a 3 seed in the NCAA tournament. If in the Big East you are suggesting I dont have much doubt there would be some years in which Xavier would finish in the top 3 which would most likely be a top 2 seed and that makes the path easier in the NCAA tournament.
In the Big East Xavier would gain more money, more exposure, better recruits (not that ours havent been good), more of a chance at quality wins.
Xavier would give up being the big fish in a small pond, give up being undervalued every year. I think our best years could be better and our worst years could be worse. I think if we had a bad stretch of games we would lose more in the Big East than the A10.
So you admit you don't know if Seton Hall tries to be better than a bottom half BE team.
There are certainly upsides and advantages to being in the BE over the A10 and I never said otherwise but I dont think XU would gain all that much going from the top dog in the A10 to a bloated 16 team football driven BE and the risks are greater.
muskienick
06-22-2010, 09:09 AM
Interesting to think about. It should be a more respected conference than X's current situation, but I think it is at least reasonable to wonder how things might play out. The A10 has some programs with potential.
BCS affliation is definitely a pretty big positive for BB only schools imo, but I don't know how to quantify it. Some smart person could probably put a dollar value on it.
Hmmm. Seems to me that there are a bunch of BB only schools in the BE that sure are "affiliated" with the BCS, given that they are members of a BCS conference.
I guess it's how one words it, because they most certainly are members of and play in a BCS conference.
The 'B' in 'BCS' stands for Bowl (as in Rose Bowl, Orange Bowl, Fiesta Bowl, etc.). As far as I can tell, none of the following schools have participated (or even qualified to participate) in such a bowl during their tenure as members of the Big East: Providence, Villanova, Seton Hall, St. Johns, Georgetown, Marquette, or DePaul. Every other Big East member is at least qualified to participate in such a Bowl as a result of having a football program at the proper level of competition (with Notre Dame being the "oddball").
Perhaps it is just a matter of semantics, but it is proper to describe Providence, Villanova, Seton Hall, St. Johns, Georgetown, Marquette, and DePaul as members of a Big Six Conference since the Big East traditionally finishes each basketball season as one of the top six Conferences in RPI. Those same seven programs are NOT part of the Big East's BCS Football Conference. If they were, they would be listed in the Conference's final football standing each year. They are not!
It is as simple as that!
The shame of it all. LH has no faith in the basketball team at Xavier. I am embarrassed for him.
xu95
The shame of it all. LH has no faith in the basketball team at Xavier. I am embarrassed for him.
xu95
That's not true at all. I'm embarrassed that you have a degree from XU.
That's not true at all. I'm embarrassed that you have a degree from XU.
Me too, because since they gave one to you, I feel like they are starting to put them in Captain Crunch cereal boxes.
Seton Hall is calling you.
Me too, because since they gave one to you, I feel like they are starting to put them in Captain Crunch cereal boxes.
Seton Hall is calling you.
Is that how you got your degree? Please say yes.
LA Muskie
06-22-2010, 01:19 PM
Perhaps it is just a matter of semantics.
It is. And you have beaten the issue to death.
muskienick
06-22-2010, 02:30 PM
It is. And you have beaten the issue to death.
I had some help.
waggy
06-22-2010, 02:34 PM
Perhaps it is just a matter of semantics, but it is proper to describe Providence, Villanova, Seton Hall, St. Johns, Georgetown, Marquette, and DePaul as members of a Big Six Conference since the Big East traditionally finishes each basketball season as one of the top six Conferences in RPI. Those same seven programs are NOT part of the Big East's BCS Football Conference. If they were, they would be listed in the Conference's final football standing each year. They are not!
It is as simple as that!
I'm sure when any of these schools are in the living room of a top recruit, instead of describing their conference as BCS, they instead use the proper description as defined by Nick of X Hoops messageboard fame, as top six.
The basic point is that the BE basketball schools benefit from having a BCS affiliation. If you can't see that, I don't know what to tell you. And Furthermore... And this is big... The BCS (and Notre Dame) benefits from being in Philly, NY, Jersey, Providence, etc.
muskienick
06-22-2010, 02:50 PM
The basic point is that the BE basketball schools benefit from having a BCS affiliation. If you can't see that, I don't know what to tell you. And Furthermore... And this is big... The BCS (and Notre Dame) benefits from being in Philly, NY, Jersey, Providence, etc.
At what point during this long thread have any of us said that there isn't a benefit of playing at Big East venues? Also, no one has argued that Marquette, G-Town, Villanova, etc. are not affiliated with BCS programs. All some of us are trying to point out (seemingly unsuccessfully) is that they are not BCS programs themselves.
Villanova, used to be in the same conference with Boston College. Marquette and Georgetown. BC, MU, and Gu are all Jesuit and Catholic. Villanova is Catholic. Therefore Villanova must be Jesuit.
The above is as sensible as saying that Villanova, G-Town, etc. are in the same Conference with UC, WVU, Syracuse. UC, WVU, Syracuse, etc. are BCS Football schools. Therefore Villanova, G-Town, etc. are BCS Football schools also.
Now the "horse is a little more dead than before"!
LA Muskie
06-22-2010, 06:14 PM
I had some help.
Touché
waggy
06-22-2010, 06:20 PM
That's fine Nick. I don't really need any definitions of what BCS stands for, who actually does or doesn't field D1 football teams, or what bowls are. At least I hope you know I don't need that. Your post from a page back is what drew my attention.
Why would any of the non-football Big East members vote for the League to admit two additional football schools into the Conference? I'd like to hear just one advantage to the BB schools if this were to happen. That is why the FB schools are in a world of hurt if even one of their gridiron members jumps elsewhere (Big 10 or ACC). They would have to split from the BB schools to get additional FB members. Either that, or talk the BB schools into being stone stupid!
My basic point is that the BE BB schools benefit from being in a conference that is BCS affiliated. Notre Dame benefits from it. The Bowl Championship Series benefits from it. The BB schools have stronger programs because of it. Everybody gets rich. THAT is one reason why the BB schools might be willing to continue in a huge, unwielding, mish-mash conference, no matter how much you don't want it to be so, or how much you hate it.
muskienick
06-23-2010, 08:22 AM
That's fine Nick. I don't really need any definitions of what BCS stands for, who actually does or doesn't field D1 football teams, or what bowls are. At least I hope you know I don't need that. Your post from a page back is what drew my attention.
My basic point is that the BE BB schools benefit from being in a conference that is BCS affiliated. Notre Dame benefits from it. The Bowl Championship Series benefits from it. The BB schools have stronger programs because of it. Everybody gets rich. THAT is one reason why the BB schools might be willing to continue in a huge, unwielding, mish-mash conference, no matter how much you don't want it to be so, or how much you hate it.
You could very well be correct, waggy. The BB schools in the Big East just might be dollar-envious enough to give away any chance of having a say in the future of the league by voting to give the FB bloc an even wider majority than it may have now (with ND being the only "swing" vote at this time). Time will tell.
waggy
06-30-2010, 07:24 PM
First-year Texas Tech football coach Tommy Tuberville broke ranks with those inside the Big 12 who laud the efforts that kept the conference together and speak of a bright future for the 10-team league. (http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/ncf/news/story?id=5341756)
In an interview Tuesday on Rivals Radio, Tuberville said that he didn't think the new Big 12 would have staying power. (http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/ncf/news/story?id=5341756)
waggy
06-30-2010, 07:27 PM
And this is interesting...
SYRACUSE, N.Y. -- Syracuse and Penn State are renewing their long football rivalry with a game at New Meadowlands Stadium. (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5343808)
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5343808)
The contest in August 2013 will be the first of a three-game series, announced Wednesday. The two schools also are working to finalize an agreement to play a home-and-home series in 2020-21. (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5343808)
JimmyTwoTimes37
06-30-2010, 07:45 PM
First-year Texas Tech football coach Tommy Tuberville broke ranks with those inside the Big 12 who laud the efforts that kept the conference together and speak of a bright future for the 10-team league. (http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/ncf/news/story?id=5341756)
In an interview Tuesday on Rivals Radio, Tuberville said that he didn't think the new Big 12 would have staying power. (http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/ncf/news/story?id=5341756)
Tech got screwed. I can't disagree with Tuberville's statements. This whole big 12-2 conference is silly and just prolongs the inevitable. Conference officials said they won't go after new schools. At least now Texas, AM, Oklahoma, OKlahoma State, and Tech won't schedule cupcake teams now in OOC games.
I really hope the Big 10+2 adds more schools. I want to see a conference shakeup
GuyFawkes38
06-30-2010, 07:57 PM
Tech got screwed. I can't disagree with Tuberville's statements. This whole big 12-2 conference is silly and just prolongs the inevitable. Conference officials said they won't go after new schools. At least now Texas, AM, Oklahoma, OKlahoma State, and Tech won't schedule cupcake teams now in OOC games.
I really hope the Big 10+2 adds more schools. I want to see a conference shakeup
Texas Tech doesn't have a choice. The Pac10 doesn't want them without Texas.
If Texas and Oklahoma remain committed to the Big12, which I think they will because they don't have to revenue share like they do in other conferences, then the Big12 isn't going anywhere soon.
I'm sort of curious if B10 schools like OSU, UM, PSU, and Nebraska will get sick of revenue sharing and demand that the B10 split revenues in an uneven way.
JimmyTwoTimes37
06-30-2010, 08:06 PM
Texas Tech doesn't have a choice. The Pac10 doesn't want them without Texas.
If Texas and Oklahoma remain committed to the Big12, which I think they will because they don't have to revenue share like they do in other conferences, than the Big12 isn't going anywhere soon.
I'm sort of curious if B10 schools like OSU, UM, PSU, and Nebraska will get sick of revenue sharing and demand that the B10 split revenues in an uneven way.
Texas and then a distant 2nd Texas A&M come out as the clear cut winners in the new Big 12-2. I give this new conference 5 years. I just don't see how it can sustain itself without adding more teams. Now the Big 12-2 finds itself in the Big 10+2's situation. An undefeated Big 12-2 team will lose a national championship bid to an undefeated Pac 10/Big 10+2/Sec team and maybe a 1 loss team from those conferences.
Beebe offered a lot of money best case scenarios "projections" to the teams that may or may not come to fruition in order to keep the league intact.
GuyFawkes38
06-30-2010, 08:16 PM
Texas and then a distant 2nd Texas A&M come out as the clear cut winners in the new Big 12-2. I give this new conference 5 years. I just don't see how it can sustain itself without adding more teams. Now the Big 12-2 finds itself in the Big 10+2's situation. An undefeated Big 12-2 team will lose a national championship bid to an undefeated Pac 10/Big 10+2/Sec team and maybe a 1 loss team from those conferences.
Beebe offered a lot of money best case scenarios "projections" to the teams that may or may not come to fruition in order to keep the league intact.
OSU and USC have made it to the BCS title game several times without having a conference championship game. USC was locked out once, but won the AP title. This especially doesn't seem like a problem for such a high profile team like Texas, which the media/voters would love to see in the championship game.
It seems like conferences pursue them to make more money, not to propel their teams into the national championship game.
If they really did matter, wouldn't ND be worried about it and join a conference? And wouldn't Texas and Oklahoma force the Big12 to add a couple teams (doesn't matter who) to form divisions and have a championship game? Those schools don't seem too worried about it.
As for the future of the Big12, the schools need each other. Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, and Oklahoma State get to keep their rivalries and earn a disproportionate share of money. Baylor, Texas Tech, Missouri, Kansas, Kansas St. and Iowa St. get to stay in a major conference.
If the Big10 takes Missouri and Iowa St in the future, the conference would collapse. But it seems like the Big10 is intent on not destroying the Big12 or any other conference and only take another team from the Big East and ACC (probably Maryland and Syracuse or Rutgers).
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