Rumor Mill Cranking

[bobbiemcgee]

Miller, Hood, Dilliard? We need more schollies!

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/messages/thread/20767232

[GuyFawkes38]

We could use Miller (he's a small forward, right?).

The other 2, I'm not sure.

[xsteve1]

I'd taker Miller in a heartbeat.

[ballyhoohoo]

I'd taker Miller in a heartbeat.

I think we will see at least one transfer soon

[DC Muskie]

Wow, interesting. Any news I these guys? I'm embarrassed to say I know nothing of them.

[BandAid]

I'd take all of them...if they walk-on!

[flatspat]

Darius Miller will have 2 yrs eligibility left.He's from Maysville,KY. He's a 6'6 forward and was somewhere like 6th or 7th man for Kentucky. IMO, he'd be a good get.

[xavierj]

Darius Miller is a former Mr. Kentucky in basketball. He actually started at UK this year and was recruited by Xavier in high school. He is Justin Cage with a better jump shot and more athleticism. If Xavier can get him they need to.

[BandAid]

Miller would seem to fill a need. His Junior season would be Dezmine's freshman year, so that should make for a nice transition. The thing that bothers me about Hood is that he looks similar to Walsh...I wouldn't be able to tell them apart ;)

[ballyhoohoo]

Both are 4 star, top 45 type of guys. I would take them in a heartbeat.

A friend who is a UK fan says Hood was recruited by Billy G and Miller by Tubby. Calapari basically recruited over them and had he gotten two more high level recruits in 2009, both would have been gone then

Something tells me Cal will have a class of 7-10 guys within the top 100. Scarey.

[xnatic03]

Both are 4 star, top 45 type of guys. I would take them in a heartbeat.

A friend who is a UK fan says Hood was recruited by Billy G and Miller by Tubby. Calapari basically recruited over them and had he gotten two more high level recruits in 2009, both would have been gone then

Something tells me Cal will have a class of 7-10 guys within the top 100. Scarey.

and he still won't win a national championship.

[Masterofreality]

and he still won't win a national championship.

....and then the program will be A) Out of scholarships because the APR will be all screwed up, B) On probation.

[Masterofreality]

I'd take all of them...if they walk-on!

Remember, we will lose Jamel, The Sherriff and Dante next year plus there is the Joe Hughes scholly and possibly Crawdaddy's this year. Anyone who transfers in has to sit a year. If their grades are decent, they could come to school on a non-athletic scholly.

If these guys transfer in, they'll just be the final pieces in the 2011 recruiting class. We are stockpiling some talent!

[Muskie]

Remember, we will lose Jamel, The Sherriff and Dante next year plus there is the Joe Hughes scholly and possibly Crawdaddy's this year. Anyone who transfers in has to sit a year. If their grades are decent, they could come to school on a non-athletic scholly.

If these guys transfer in, they'll just be the final pieces in the 2011 recruiting class. We are stockpiling some talent!

I think Joe Hughes is off scholarship for next season MOR.

[whitesox]

If their grades are decent, they could come to school on a non-athletic scholly.


For what its worth, I believe that non-athletic scholarships count toward scholarship limits (though this has changed several times recently, so this might not be the rule anymore).

I think Miller would be a great pickup for us, though.

[kyxu]

In addition to Hughes and Crawford, we would still have to lose another person to make room for an incoming transfer next season who wouldn't even be allowed to play until 2011-12. But we could do a lot worse than Darius Miller, if he is at all a possibility.

And I believe whitesox is correct...a non-athletic scholarship would go against our allotment of 13. Otherwise, it would be relatively easy for schools to skirt the athletic scholarship limit rule.

[GoMuskies]

So who's going to start the rumors about who is going to transfer out to make room for our incoming transfers?

We need three guys out to comply with the rumors.

[kyxu]

So who's going to start the rumors about who is going to transfer out to make room for our incoming transfers?

We need three guys out to comply with the rumors.

I would be ok with no one leaving the program this off-season.

[Juice]

So who's going to start the rumors about who is going to transfer out to make room for our incoming transfers?

We need three guys out to comply with the rumors.

I have heard rumors about that a few weeks ago but I didn't want to name names based on hearsay. My point is that I think these type of rumors are and have been going around already.

[Xman95]

Just did my high tech research again (checked Miller's Rivals page). Like Dillard, Xavier was in on this kid. They apparently offered. Lead recruiter? Yep, once again it was Chris Mack.

Darius Miller page (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recruiting/player-Darius-Miller-49898)

Xavier not listed for Jon Hood (had 4 SEC schools listed).

Jon Hood page (http://rivals.yahoo.com/basketballrecruiting/basketball/recruiting/player-Jon-Hood-69479)

[bobbiemcgee]

Everybody wants to go to X!!!
:logo::sword::shield:

[Muskie]

So who's going to start the rumors about who is going to transfer out to make room for our incoming transfers?

We need three guys out to comply with the rumors.

Please don't. I then have to waste my time deleting the thread. When a transfer is announced people can talk about it. It's not fair to the players to have people commenting on rumors. It's one of the few rules we have around here.

[STL_XUfan]

In addition to Hughes and Crawford, we would still have to lose another person to make room for an incoming transfer next season who wouldn't even be allowed to play until 2011-12. But we could do a lot worse than Darius Miller, if he is at all a possibility.

And I believe whitesox is correct...a non-athletic scholarship would go against our allotment of 13. Otherwise, it would be relatively easy for schools to skirt the athletic scholarship limit rule.

There are exceptions for things such as research grants, pell grants, competition based scholarships open to everyone, and some academic scholarships that can be verified as being solely for academic reasons (this gets tweaked when the athlete is recruited).

However, as with all things NCAA there are lots of bylaws and exceptions and confusing language. The short of it is that it would be hard to justify a recruited transfer as getting an academic scholarship full ride without raising a lot of red flags.

[Cheesehead]

Just for the record, I have used up all of my eligibility. Sorry, guys.

[Masterofreality]

There are exceptions for things such as research grants, pell grants, competition based scholarships open to everyone, and some academic scholarships that can be verified as being solely for academic reasons (this gets tweaked when the athlete is recruited).

However, as with all things NCAA there are lots of bylaws and exceptions and confusing language. The short of it is that it would be hard to justify a recruited transfer as getting an academic scholarship full ride without raising a lot of red flags.

What did we do with Adam Simon? He was supposedly on an academic scholly and not a basketball one. If what has been said is correct, we would have been over the limit with him.

[kyxu]

What did we do with Adam Simon? He was supposedly on an academic scholly and not a basketball one. If what has been said is correct, we would have been over the limit with him.

Wow, I forgot all about that guy.

He was not on scholarship, but tuition remission because his stepmother was the head women's coach at Duke (another private institution).

[Masterofreality]

Wow, I forgot all about that guy.

He was not on scholarship, but tuition remission because his stepmother was the head women's coach at Duke (another private institution).

Well, that would seem to fall into the same category as STL XU fan said above because that was not necessarily open to "everyone."

[Drew's Crew]

Wow, I would be STOKED if we got Miller.

These types of transfers are exactly what have kept us on top the lat 4-5 years. Couple that with our recruiting class and we will be serious contenders for years to come.

[kyxu]

Well, that would seem to fall into the same category as STL XU fan said above because that was not necessarily open to "everyone."

Tuition remission is not a scholarship, I don't believe. It's more of a tuition credit.

[Masterofreality]

Tuition remission is not a scholarship, I don't believe. It's more of a tuition credit.

I'm not going to keep arguing on this but...

A) Adam Simon was a 7 footer.
B) He was on the basketball roster.
C) He went to school for free.

Maybe splitting hairs but not much difference.

[XU 87]

Didn't Simons have a parent who taught at some university (possibly Jesuit) which qualified him for free tuition at Xavier?

P.S. I suppose I should have read KYXU's post first.

[Anti-Homer]

I thought his mom was a coach on Duke's women's bball team.

[MHettel]

Yeah Gail Stokernikiss. (Sound it out).

We were in Miller's final 2, real late in the recruiting season. He, Stepheron Pettigrew (WKU), and a kid that ended up at Seton Hall (teamate of D. Blair in HS), were all consiering XU. I think we pocekted teh scholarship, or maybe it went to Jamel.

I'm not sure about Miller. There were 5 guys that announced for the draft on that team. He looks like a solid player, but he was defensive priority #5 when he was on the court.

[PM Thor]

I think this offseason is going to be one of the most convoluted we have had in years. What a mess. A nice mess, but still, a mess.

I HATE dayton.

[LA Muskie]

I'm not going to keep arguing on this but...

A) Adam Simon was a 7 footer.
B) He was on the basketball roster.
C) He went to school for free.

Maybe splitting hairs but not much difference.
The point is that whatever it is, it didn't count against the 13 scholly limit. You may recall that Trajan Langdon was technically a walkon, not counted against the 13 schollly limit, for at least part of his time at Duke because he was drafted and under contract with the Padres, who paid for his education. I have no idea if that's still permitted.

[sash19]

Yeah Gail Stokernikiss. (Sound it out).

We were in Miller's final 2, real late in the recruiting season. He, Stepheron Pettigrew (WKU), and a kid that ended up at Seton Hall (teamate of D. Blair in HS), were all consiering XU. I think we pocekted teh scholarship, or maybe it went to Jamel.

I'm not sure about Miller. There were 5 guys that announced for the draft on that team. He looks like a solid player, but he was defensive priority #5 when he was on the court.



MHettel:

Its Gail Goestenkors and she was the Duke coach, now at Texas.

Miller, Pettigrew and DJ Kennedy is the kid you couldnt think of and he went to St. John's instead of Seton Hall. IF there were a spot for Darius Miller, I would take the kid in a heartbeat. He can flat out play when "allowed." Cal had to make sure to get the ball to the frosh so he (Darius) and Patrick Patterson were just able to get scraps most of the time.

[Masterofreality]

The point is that whatever it is, it didn't count against the 13 scholly limit. You may recall that Trajan Langdon was technically a walkon, not counted against the 13 schollly limit, for at least part of his time at Duke because he was drafted and under contract with the Padres, who paid for his education. I have no idea if that's still permitted.

Nice that your so sure that it didn't count against the scholly limit then- from 2000 miles away- but your not sure if some things are or are not permitted now.

How can you be so sure about then, when your not even sure about now.?

My point. There are ways that players come to school and it may not require transfers out that some are alleging. There are ways that are legal to handle it. There is way too much mindless speculation on guys coming in and then that fuels the "who's transferring" crap.

Like Muskie said above. Enough with wild rumors about a kid's intentions and his future. Every guy in this program is a Musketeer, until he isn't.

[Juice]

The point is that whatever it is, it didn't count against the 13 scholly limit. You may recall that Trajan Langdon was technically a walkon, not counted against the 13 schollly limit, for at least part of his time at Duke because he was drafted and under contract with the Padres, who paid for his education. I have no idea if that's still permitted.

I think Xavier Henry's brother has the same situation going at Kansas but I don't know which baseball team.

[kyxu]

I'm not going to keep arguing on this but...

A) Adam Simon was a 7 footer.
B) He was on the basketball roster.
C) He went to school for free.

Maybe splitting hairs but not much difference.

Actually...I don't believe he did go to school for free. He still paid, just not as much.

[LA Muskie]

Nice that your so sure that it didn't count against the scholly limit then- from 2000 miles away- but your not sure if some things are or are not permitted now. How can you be so sure about then, when your not even sure about now.?
I am sure that Langdan didn't count in 1994. Feel free to do the google research to find out.

As for now, CJ Henry (Xavier Henry's older brother) is a good example. He was drafted and signed by the Yankees in 2005, including a $1.6 million signing bonus. He paid his own tuition from that bonus and walked on at Memphis. I said that I didn't know if something like that would count against the limit because I hadn't done the research. I have done so now. It doesn't.

At any rate, I would like for you to tell me how geography could play any role, whatsoever, in knowing the rules? Your mind works in mysterious ways, my friend. In any event, so that you can give up the whole 2000-mile thing, I am at Xavier at least twice, if not 3 times a year for university meetings. So I'm not always 2000 miles away.


My point. There are ways that players come to school and it may not require transfers out that some are alleging. There are ways that are legal to handle it.
There aren't as many as you seem to think there are. That's why it's such a big deal to a program when a baseball team is essentially footing the bill for a "walkon" like Trajan Langdon or CJ Henry. And it's even more rare to have an Adam Simon situation.


There is way too much mindless speculation on guys coming in and then that fuels the "who's transferring" crap.
All the OP said, I believe, is that if someone comes in, someone will have to go out. I don't think he was trying to fuel anything. It's just a mathematical fact. With a few exceptions that have been discussed, none of which appear to apply. here.

[STL_XUfan]

Well, that would seem to fall into the same category as STL XU fan said above because that was not necessarily open to "everyone."

I think at some point this thread went way off the rails, but to continue the new path...

The reason (and it is speculation since I couldn't find the exact by-law or interpretation) is that the tuition remission falls under his education being paid for by someone that he is dependent on (aka his mother). The tuition remission is not a scholarship to the athlete but an employment benefit to his mother, so therefore it appears that she is the one paying with her benefit.

As for the pro-baseball aspect, if the kid wants to pay his own way to college and walk on he won't count against the scholarship limit. You are allowed (at least you were, unless something has changed) to go pro in a sport while maintaining your college eligibility in another sport. Therefore you can use your own money to pay for your education. The one limitation is the pay has to be for the sport and not for a sponsorship deal (good example is the olympic skier that played football at colorado, and had to repay his endorsements to maintain his eligibility).

Finally, you can't hide the scholarship player on another team. If the sport is a head count sport, it doesn't matter what sport actually pays his scholarship, he will be a counter in that head count sport. Therefore, we couldn't put a player on a full ride on the track team and make him a Basketball walk on for a year.

[Xman95]

I think Xavier Henry's brother has the same situation going at Kansas but I don't know which baseball team.

I believe the Yankees drafted Henry, but he's no longer with the organization.

(I guess I should have read LA's post. Of course I just figured, being that he's 2,000 miles away, he wouldn't be aware of anything happening east of California.:D)

[Masterofreality]

All these scholarship/roster permutations has given me a headache. Sure not the same as the old "grant-in-aid."

The final XU roster will be what it will be. Just, please, no more transfer rumors.

We have CMack, a Xavier guy at the helm. I trust in his ethics.

Time to go play golf!:p

[DoubleD86]

Just to give some clarification, one of the biggest determinations on whether or not the kid would count in our "head-count" for the 13 scholarships is whether or not he was a recruited prospect. If the kid is a recruited prospect (you have to pretty much register any prospective student athlete that you are attempting to formally recruit) it is incredibly difficult to get the NCAA to count them as a walk on. I have no idea about the rest of those kids, but my guess would be most if not all of them were not formally recruited. If not mistaken, I am pretty sure C.J. Henry was not a recruited athlete for Kansas.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I'm not going to keep arguing on this but...

A) Adam Simon was a 7 footer.
B) He was on the basketball roster.
C) He went to school for free.

Maybe splitting hairs but not much difference.

It is a huge difference. Walk on Johnny Mazza's mom works for XU, he goes to school free. That is not counting against us.

[Masterofreality]

It is a huge difference. Walk on Johnny Mazza's mom works for XU, he goes to school free. That is not counting against us.


Geez already. Johnny Mazza is a walk-on that started at XU and never has been close to being a "scholarship" player in any regard whether his mama works for XU or not. Mazza was never "recruited" to play but just showed up and happend to make the team. He would never, ever be counted against the scholarship limit unless, like Joe Hughes, Johnny was granted a scholly. Simon transferred in and was guaranteed a roster spot.

My headache continues. I gotta get outta this thread!

[GuyFawkes38]

There's nothing at catspause about this (and they love to spread to spread rumors).

[D-West & PO-Z]

Geez already. Johnny Mazza is a walk-on that started at XU and never has been close to being a "scholarship" player in any regard whether his mama works for XU or not. Mazza was never "recruited" to play but just showed up and happend to make the team. He would never, ever be counted against the scholarship limit unless, like Joe Hughes, Johnny was granted a scholly. Simon transferred in and was guaranteed a roster spot.

My headache continues. I gotta get outta this thread!

You are acting like there are plenty ways around the 13 scholly limit. There aren't. To say someone would either have to transfer out or give up a scholly is not a rumor, it's reality.

[Masterofreality]

You are acting like there are plenty ways around the 13 scholly limit. There aren't. To say someone would either have to transfer out or give up a scholly is not a rumor, it's reality.

Bro, I'm not acting like anything. I just get sick of everytime there is some rumor of transfer in, right away uninformed people start posting names of guys who "have been heard to be transferring out" by their best friend's mother's brother's day-hop student kid to make the roster allegedly balance. Until a real NCAA coach comes on here and explains the actual rules, I'm not taking anything posted on here at face value. No one has been able to say definitively what the current rules are. Enough already.

Let's just leave it to the experts inside the program to figure it out, shall we? X hasn't been on probation yet and I doubt that it will be anytime that I'm on this planet.

[GoMuskies]

I think it's safe to say that if someone transfers in, someone else has to go barring very, very unusual circumstances.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I think it's safe to say that if someone transfers in, someone else has to go barring very, very unusual circumstances.

I would agree.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Bro, I'm not acting like anything. I just get sick of everytime there is some rumor of transfer in, right away uninformed people start posting names of guys who "have been heard to be transferring out" by their best friend's mother's brother's day-hop student kid to make the roster allegedly balance. Until a real NCAA coach comes on here and explains the actual rules, I'm not taking anything posted on here at face value. No one has been able to say definitively what the current rules are. Enough already.

Let's just leave it to the experts inside the program to figure it out, shall we? X hasn't been on probation yet and I doubt that it will be anytime that I'm on this planet.

I havent seen one player named in this thread that anyone has said will transfer as a result of an incoming transfer.

Like LAMuskie said, its not stirring shit up to say if someone comes in on scholarship and our scholarships are full that someone will have to transfer or give theirs up, its mathematics, bro.

[Blue Dog]

Not sure if it helps clarify anything but Jimmy Baron did not count against URI's ship total, which I thought was pretty bogus. How tough would it be to just have a rule stating that you can only have 13 kids on the team with a free ride of any kind?

[STL_XUfan]

Not sure if it helps clarify anything but Jimmy Baron did not count against URI's ship total, which I thought was pretty bogus. How tough would it be to just have a rule stating that you can only have 13 kids on the team with a free ride of any kind?

Sure it is strange in this case, however, school is really expensive and I don't think it is fair to punish walk on athletes by taking away scholarship money that they have earned. Walk ons are put through enough crap already, why make them pay more than everyone else on campus by taking away any earned scholarship.