Butler--I am Torn

[PM Thor]

I don't know how to describe what I'm feeling towards that program right now. Logically, I am rooting for them, seeing as they are a non big 6 team, and I can see how X and Butler are kindred souls in terms of the collegiate basketball landscape.

But emotionally, I can't get beyond the idea that somehow Butler has stolen Xaviers thunder about getting to this level. It's not really fair nor intellectually honest, but I can't seem to get beyond it.

I want Butler to win it, but at the same time, I pine over the "what if" aspect that Xavier might have been there instead. I just don't know what to think, nor how to react to it either. Ugh.

[Woodburn]

Ha! Dude - just started a thread on the exact same thing. Reps for you.

[THRILLHOUSE]

Yeah same here Thor. Don't really like any team left. MSU is a great program and I don't hate them, but they are always in the Final Four. Will never root for a Bob Huggins coached team even against the Dookies. So this means I want a Butler-Duke championship? Ugh.

[XU-PA]

as the years go by I care less and less who wins. probably has something to do with my lack of knowledge when picking a bracket.
But,,,,,,,,, MSU has a good coach (sober in occasion), runs a clean program (so far) has done no wtong in XU's book. Apparently has a staff that can run a clock, so I'm going with the spartans, even though they are scrub brush heads.

Next year though, since Amber Harris has announced she's coming back, and I'm certain deep down that Jordan will do the same, will be a different story!

[Muskie1000]

I would have loved to see Xavier in the final four but it wasn't to be. Am I jealous - of course - however, when you get right down to it - who would I rather win? Another Big 6 school who can just add another title to their name, or... a Butler team who can prove to the nation that you don't have to go to a Big 6 school to win a title? Even though it isn't Xavier, Mack (or whoever) can say to potential recruits - see, you can go here and you can go to the final four.

[gladdenguy]

I don't care who wins. I'm not even watching. I'm a sore loser.
I just hope West Virginia doesn't win because of my hate for Huggins.
I just want it to be Tuesday so its over.

[Titanxman04]

Cannot root for Butler after that Xavier/Butler thread. Those folks just didn't rub off on me the right way.

Fact is, I was raised a Duke fan. With my grandfather and dad rooting for them since God knows when, they taught me to root for their favorite team (Just as I will teach them to root for Xavier hoops with Duke being a close second).

So, I don't care either way about this game, so long as Duke comes out on top.

Go Duke.

[MADXSTER]

Titan, we will have to agree to disagree. ;)

I'm rooting for Butler. As for Duke, I keep a Duke T-shirt on hand to clean up puke when one of my kids get sick in the middle of the night. I will root for W Virginia(lesser of two evils, and that is saying something) and then whomever is playing against W Virginia.

[Titanxman04]

Titan, we will have to agree to disagree. ;)

I'm rooting for Butler. As for Duke, I keep a Duke T-shirt on hand to clean up puke when one of my kids get sick in the middle of the night. I will root for W Virginia(lesser of two evils, and that is saying something) and then whomever is playing against W Virginia.

While I understand your sentiments towards my beloved Blue Devils, I feel you are still in the wrong. Only a Dayton or UC shirt would do for such a task. The Blue Devils shirt, I feel, is better suited to cleaning up spilled paint in the garage.

[rhyno2110]

I tried rooting for Butler, and that didn't feel right. So then I tried rooting for MSU, and that felt worse. So in the end, I decided to just watch some great final four basketball without rooting for a team.

[X4LIFE]

Am I torn? Yes. But just finished listening to that slackjaw Walton saying how Butler is lucky to be in the game. And how Mich St is so much bigger,better, and better coached. And going on and on about the Big 10 "power conference". And it got me angry. I would be even angrier if he were saying it about X. I don't get upset about Gonzaga doing well and I wasn't upset about George Mason or Davidson doing well in the tourney. It's the rivalry with Butler and the fact their AD calls it the "Butler Way" (I hate that completely stolen from X). I can put all that aside FOR NOW. Go Bulldogs!

[Masterofreality]

Gotta be for Michigan State. Delvon Roe is a great kid and played with my nephew at St. Eds. You also have to give a lot of respect to Tom Izzo. Not an ass like Chuggins or pompous like Kryzewski. The fact that they are there all the time is a credit to Izzo and he seems like a solid guy to me.

Can't cheer for Butler, Dook or BeelzeBob.

[rhyno2110]

Well, it ended up being me rooting for Butler in the last minute instead of staying in the world of neutrality. I'm kind of frustrated that I rooted for them, after all of the reasons I have to dislike them, but I'm happy for them that they took advantage of every situation given to them, and I will most definetly be on their side in the Championship game.

I'm sooooo damn jealous, its killing me right now.

[xsteve1]

Am I torn? Yes. But just finished listening to that slackjaw Walton saying how Butler is lucky to be in the game. And how Mich St is so much bigger,better, and better coached. And going on and on about the Big 10 "power conference". And it got me angry. I would be even angrier if he were saying it about X. I don't get upset about Gonzaga doing well and I wasn't upset about George Mason or Davidson doing well in the tourney. It's the rivalry with Butler and the fact their AD calls it the "Butler Way" (I hate that completely stolen from X). I can put all that aside FOR NOW. Go Bulldogs!

I think Matta brought the term the Butler Way to Xavier and just changed it to the Xavier way. I think we stole it from them.

[STL_XUfan]

Well now it is an easy choice: Butler or Duke/WVU. Give me the Bulldogs over Duke and Chuggins any day.

[An X Fan]

I'm sooooo damn jealous, its killing me right now.

Jealous that they got Murray State in the 2nd round and barely beat them? That they got Syracuse without their center? That they got a worn down Kansas State that didn't resemble the team we played on Thursday night? That the Final Four is in their home town? That they then get a #5 seed Michigan State without their point guard?

For a school that draws 5,000-6,000 fans for most of their games at Hinkle Fieldhouse?

After being cheated there earlier this season, then watching their bandwagon fans realize they have a team preening around, I'm going to be sick.

[SlimKibbles]

I'm not torn at all. I've been pulling for these guys ever since X got knocked out. Is there a strong part of me that wanted X to be the one to do what Butler is doing? Absolutely. I really, really wanted that. But, it wasn't so strong a desire to not want to see Butler win the whole damn thing.

[rhyno2110]

Jealous that they got Murray State in the 2nd round and barely beat them? That they got Syracuse without their center? That they got a worn down Kansas State that didn't resemble the team we played on Thursday night? That the Final Four is in their home town? That they then get a #5 seed Michigan State without their point guard?

For a school that draws 5,000-6,000 fans for most of their games at Hinkle Fieldhouse?

After being cheated there earlier this season, then watching their bandwagon fans realize they have a team preening around, I'm going to be sick.

I'm not jealous of Butler University, i'm jealous of how far they have advanced. And, I like to look at teams, or players, taking advantage of what circumstances are handed to them, and Butler has done that really really well. That is why I give them a great amount of credit and that is one of the reasons as to why I will be rooting for them in the final.

Your post suggests that your jealous too.

[stophorseabuse]

Now the question, if Buter wins this thing how does the NCAA find a way to punish all non big 6 conferences and make sure this never happens again???

[SlimKibbles]

Jealous that they got Murray State in the 2nd round and barely beat them? That they got Syracuse without their center? That they got a worn down Kansas State that didn't resemble the team we played on Thursday night? That the Final Four is in their home town? That they then get a #5 seed Michigan State without their point guard?

For a school that draws 5,000-6,000 fans for most of their games at Hinkle Fieldhouse?

After being cheated there earlier this season, then watching their bandwagon fans realize they have a team preening around, I'm going to be sick.

You are jealous and it's making you throw reason completely out the window.

I said this in another thread and I'll say it again:

- Murray State was a damn good team this season. How do you know Butler would have struggled with Vandy?

- Onuaku was an important part of Syracuse's team but a big part of why they lost is because they turned the damn ball over too much and their great defense didn't cause many Butler turnovers.

- K-State playing a hard-fought game against X two days before Butler had to have played a part in them losing, but they still had the lead late in the game. Butler still had to re-take the lead and win.

- Getting to the Final Four when it was being played in your hometown was pretty lucky.

I still hate what happened in the December game, but you have to give the Bulldogs credit, and stop making a bunch of lame excuses while throwing away reason. They've won their big games at the right time of the season.

[SlimKibbles]

Now the question, if Buter wins this thing how does the NCAA find a way to punish all non big 6 conferences and make sure this never happens again???

They won't punish them, they'll put rules and crap into place to make it harder for the other conferences while making it easier for the Big 6. Say hello to the 96-team tournament when more Big 6 teams will make the Dance.

[OTRMUSKIE]

This is what I have been saying for over a week. I think though this helps all non big 6 schools. It goes to show you that you don't have to go to the big schools to win. I say root for Butler now. If they win it all then they have nothing to strive for anymore, lol.

[Nocalmuskie]

Who does this hurt the most? Indiana University. They are pretty irrelevant in their own state and Tom Crean -- a completely overrated coach -- is living on borrowed time.

[xavierj]

Apparently the Xavier players were not too excited to see Butler win.

[Woodburn]

Several Sierra Nevada's have convinced me that this is a coup for non BCS conference schools. Xavier included. I hope Butler wins the whole thing. I'm convinced it will allow our staff to go into homes across the nation and make a more effective presentation. It would destroy the perception that you need to go to certain schools to win a championship. There's a stocky dribbler squirming in the desert right now and I think it bodes well for the future of X.

[PM Thor]

Now the question, if Buter wins this thing how does the NCAA find a way to punish all non big 6 conferences and make sure this never happens again???

Expand to 96.

[An X Fan]

... stop making a bunch of lame excuses while throwing away reason.

Where were the excuses? Pointing out all the breaks Butler got along the way. And they have capitalized on all those breaks.

[KabeX]

Several Sierra Nevada's have convinced me that this is a coup for non BCS conference schools. Xavier included. I hope Butler wins the whole thing. I'm convinced it will allow our staff to go into homes across the nation and make a more effective presentation. It would destroy the perception that you need to go to certain schools to win a championship. There's a stocky dribbler squirming in the desert right now and I think it bodes well for the future of X.
Indeed. We lost to 'em by 1 on their floor in a controversial ending. For Craps sake - if Butler can get to the freakin National Title game (and there's no reason they can't win the damn thing) don't you think X is right there. If this doesn't prove it then the only thing that will is a National Title. And I'd be fine with that.

[SlimKibbles]

Where were the excuses? Pointing out all the breaks Butler got along the way. And they have capitalized on all those breaks.

You're right. I completely mistook the tone of your post. I apologize for that.

[X4LIFE]

Butler making the Championship game is a great thing for all non bcs schools. Part of me,however, feels like the man who has worked so hard for so many years to get a promotion he so richly deserves. Everyone sees how hard I work,how honest I go about my work and they praise me for it. They tell me I deserve the promotion and that I'll get it soon. Then along comes the "new guy". No smarter, no harder working. He makes the most of his opportunities just like me. But, he gets the promotion before I do. Am I frustrated and bitter for a while? Yes. But,I keep working my tail off and soon I get my promotion. And maybe its a little more satisfying for me because I've put so much into it. And in the long run does the other guy really matter? Does he take anything away from what I've accomplished? I don't think so.

[SlimKibbles]

Butler making the Championship game is a great thing for all non bcs schools. Part of me,however, feels like the man who has worked so hard for so many years to get a promotion he so richly deserves. Everyone sees how hard I work,how honest I go about my work and they praise me for it. They tell me I deserve the promotion and that I'll get it soon. Then along comes the "new guy". No smarter, no harder working. He makes the most of his opportunities just like me. But, he gets the promotion before I do. Am I frustrated and bitter for a while? Yes. But,I keep working my tail off and soon I get my promotion. And maybe its a little more satisfying for me because I've put so much into it. And in the long run does the other guy really matter? Does he take anything away from what I've accomplished? I don't think so.

Wow...excellent analogy. Couldn't have used a better one myself.

[An X Fan]

Butler making the Championship game is a great thing for all non bcs schools. Part of me,however, feels like the man who has worked so hard for so many years to get a promotion he so richly deserves. Everyone sees how hard I work,how honest I go about my work and they praise me for it. They tell me I deserve the promotion and that I'll get it soon. Then along comes the "new guy". No smarter, no harder working. He makes the most of his opportunities just like me. But, he gets the promotion before I do. Am I frustrated and bitter for a while? Yes. But,I keep working my tail off and soon I get my promotion. And maybe its a little more satisfying for me because I've put so much into it. And in the long run does the other guy really matter? Does he take anything away from what I've accomplished? I don't think so.

Right on. Xavier has been building for 30 years, has done much of the heavy lifting for "mid majors." Butler has been building for 10-15 years or so. Xavier has put in a lot of work in the NCAA tourney. Butler catches a lot of breaks, plays well and capitalizes - to a NCAA tourney final appearance. Definitely jealous, feeling X has put in the work and deserves the reward before Butler. I'm also bothered by Butler's lack of support, then having their "fans" roll out like they're the greatest program on earth. Deep breath.

p.s. Slim, no worries at all.

[Masterofreality]

Butler making the Championship game is a great thing for all non bcs schools. Part of me,however, feels like the man who has worked so hard for so many years to get a promotion he so richly deserves. Everyone sees how hard I work,how honest I go about my work and they praise me for it. They tell me I deserve the promotion and that I'll get it soon. Then along comes the "new guy". No smarter, no harder working. He makes the most of his opportunities just like me. But, he gets the promotion before I do. Am I frustrated and bitter for a while? Yes. But,I keep working my tail off and soon I get my promotion. And maybe its a little more satisfying for me because I've put so much into it. And in the long run does the other guy really matter? Does he take anything away from what I've accomplished? I don't think so.

.......Or you keep being overlooked because the "next big thing" comes along- every year.

Let's hope that the fact that we have a Xavier guy leading this program now who will hopefully stay around for a while will refuse to let that alternative universe happen.

[LA Muskie]

Deleted by me.

[LA Muskie]

Jealous that they got Murray State in the 2nd round and barely beat them? That they got Syracuse without their center? That they got a worn down Kansas State that didn't resemble the team we played on Thursday night? That the Final Four is in their home town? That they then get a #5 seed Michigan State without their point guard?

For a school that draws 5,000-6,000 fans for most of their games at Hinkle Fieldhouse?

After being cheated there earlier this season, then watching their bandwagon fans realize they have a team preening around, I'm going to be sick.
Insecure much? Butler has ABSOLUTELY earned the right to play for the national championship. They've won 25 straight. They beat the #1 and #2 seeds in their region. They beat a scrappy MSU team led by arguably the best coach in the country (he routinely does more with less). Do I wish it was us? More than just about anything. But trying to pick away at their accomplishment is petty and pathetic.

PS: We may have been "cheated" out of about 1.6 seconds or so (although even that, while unfair, was the right call). But the odds that we were in "cheated" out of a win are EXTREMELY remote. So let's please give that one up.

[Titanxman04]

Well, no secret here. I REALLY hate Butler now. Let's go Duke! If X can't win a title, at least Duke might!

Always though... :logo::shield::sword: comes first.

[BENWAR]

Insecure much? Butler has ABSOLUTELY earned the right to play for the national championship. They've won 25 straight. They beat the #1 and #2 seeds in their region. They beat a scrappy MSU team led by arguably the best coach in the country (he routinely does more with less). Do I wish it was us? More than just about anything. But trying to pick away at their accomplishment is petty and pathetic.

PS: We may have been "cheated" out of about 1.6 seconds or so (although even that, while unfair, was the right call). But the odds that we were in "cheated" out of a win are EXTREMELY remote. So let's please give that one up.

What a great post!!!

[GoMuskies]

Go Butler! If you don't hate Duke, the terrorists win.

[joebba]

I posted this on a similar thread.



A little late, but I too live in Indy and have respect for the Butler program, but I rooted for MSU. I guess I am a bit jealous or envious that Butler rose so fast to the top after the years of steady and consistent progress of the Xavier basketball program.

Butler looked damn good today. Also, not allowing one team to score 60 points in the tourney is truly impressive.

It should be an interesting match-up with Duke. It will be like looking at mirror teams. Both teams play very fundamentally sound ball, and both teams play very, very good defense. Both teams shoot 3's well, and have different players that can step up.

I will still give the edge to Duke because of their big men.

Duke played a hell of a game tonight. Half of their offense was from 3's. Unbelievable. If Duke plays as well as they did tonight, I do not think Butler stands a chance.

I believe that Duke will be 5 point favorites but it will likely be a very close game.

[LA Muskie]

Butler making the Championship game is a great thing for all non bcs schools. Part of me,however, feels like the man who has worked so hard for so many years to get a promotion he so richly deserves. Everyone sees how hard I work,how honest I go about my work and they praise me for it. They tell me I deserve the promotion and that I'll get it soon. Then along comes the "new guy". No smarter, no harder working. He makes the most of his opportunities just like me. But, he gets the promotion before I do. Am I frustrated and bitter for a while? Yes. But,I keep working my tail off and soon I get my promotion. And maybe its a little more satisfying for me because I've put so much into it. And in the long run does the other guy really matter? Does he take anything away from what I've accomplished? I don't think so.
Others have said this already, but this really is an outstanding analogy.

[danaandvictory]

It's the rivalry with Butler and the fact their AD calls it the "Butler Way" (I hate that completely stolen from X).

No, it's not. We stole it from them.

[xubrew]

i don't understand the hatred for butler. i don't even see why anyone would be torn. granted, i wasn't following the team in the mcc days because it was long before i enrolled at xavier, but even still. people are actually torn between butler and duke?? a lot of people talk about how crappy it is that teams outside the bcs conferences get no respect. then, when one suddenly does, they talk about how crappy it is that they're getting so much respect simply because they're a mid major. i don't get it.

i really don't see butler as being all that new to the scene. they've been ranked in the top 25 almost permanently for the past four years and went to a sweet sixteen in 2003.

they've also paid some dues. in 1999 they lost on a last second shot to a florida team who went on to advance to the national title game.

in 2007 they nearly beat florida in the sweet sixteen. in fact out of the entire 2006 and 2007 tournaments (and perhaps even both sec tournaments) i don't think anyone came as close to beating florida as butler did.

the following year they were seeded #7 despite being ranked #9 (or soemthing like that) and lost in the second round in overtime to a very good tennessee team.

butler has been around. they didn't just suddenly appear out of nowhere in this tournament. they're not like george mason who made the final four without ever having won an ncaa tournament game or been ranked in the top 25 before or since. i'd go so far to say that george mason has never had the type of season that would earn them an at-large bid outside of that one year. butler has a very solid foundation.

i don't understand why people hate butler for the reasons that they do, and when you look at those stated reasons some of those aren't even fully accurate, one being that they suddenly crashed our party. they didn't. they've been at the party since at least 2003.

i feel that butler has much more in common with mother teresa than perhaps any other div1 team in any other sport. i just don't see how you can not like (or if not like, respect the hell out of) those players and coaches and how they go about their business. they are the complete inverse of everything most posters on this board claim to hate. then again, maybe that's why so many people hate them.

in looking at the final four, butler is definitely the good guys. i don't see why anyone would be torn.

[MADXSTER]

Well, no secret here. I REALLY hate Butler now. Let's go Duke! If X can't win a title, at least Duke might!

Always though... :logo::shield::sword: comes first.

Titan, you have issues. :D

Go Butler!!

[LA Muskie]

Well said, Brew. Well said.

[KabeX]

Yup, well said Brew. We all have a tinge of envy (note: envy is not the same as jealousy - in no way am I jealous of Butler and would take X's program over theirs any day and twice on Sunday) but c'mon - you gotta love what they've been able to do. You can't seriously be rooting for Duke tomorrow. If Butler somehow pulls over this upset (and I don't think they will), it is a GOOD THING FOR X. So give them their due and stop this crap about they got breaks etc... They were underseeded and still got there by beating #1 and #2. Enjoy them game tomorrow and root for the underdog 'cause that dawg might be a Musketeer next year!