Butler To Win The Championship!

[Snipe]

Making the Final Four is an incredible story for Butler. Not only have they made the Final Four, I think that Butler is well positioned to beat the winner of Tennessee/Michigan State.

I think that Butler will be playing in the National Championship Game. The Butler Bulldogs will play for the National Championship. 40 minutes away from history.

What an incredible story.

I have been rooting for Butler for years. We have a good deal in common with them and we used to be conference rivals when I was a young man. I admire their coach and their program. I love rooting for the little guy against the BCS.

No doubt I wish we could have played Butler. If we could have beaten Kansas State I think we could have beaten Butler. If we were in their shoes I would expect us to make the title game too. What a dream. So close to the dream. Butler is living that dream, and I am going to root for them to win the title.

Go Bulldogs!

[waggy]

If we could have beaten Kansas State I think we could have beaten Butler.

Under normal circumstances I'd agree, but not after that double OT war with KSU.

[Porkopolis]

I've come around to your position. Go Bulldogs!

[Strange Brew]

Alright, alright. I'll root for the Mountaineers and Blue Devils but we don't want the Bulldogs...............Awww Prairie s***, go Butler.

[whiteyxu]

Yeah, I was really distraught about Butler making the F4 before we did a couple days ago, but I've come to terms with it and I actually think I'm okay with them winning. A lot of my previous hatred for them was based in jealousy and wishing that it was us in their position. But in the end, we shouldn't base our success as a program in relation to one of our fellow mid-majors. We are our own school, our own team, and proud to be a part of it. So what if Butler got there first? We WILL make it there in the very near future, and it will no longer be a question of which one of us will make it first, but whether each school has the toughness and prowess to be in that spot year-in and year-out and tear down the big-conference bias in college basketball today. 10 years from now, nobody will be talking about the fact that Butler did it before us, instead it will be well-known that Xavier (and maybe Butler, too) is a POWERHOUSE and as good as any program in the country.

Our year will come. For now, let's just watch and see how this year pans out. Our guys will put in the work this off-season and be ready to make waves next year. Go X!

[GuyFawkes38]

this is as close Butler will get to winning a championship. So they better take advantage of it.

[XULucho27]

this is as close Butler will get to winning a championship. So they better take advantage of it.

Why is that the case? On the road to the Final Four they've beaten a #1 and a #2 seed, injuries and other circumstances aside that is still a great effort. They now a face a Michigan State team that, despite recent success, is missing their starting guard (and arguably best player) Kailin Lucas. I think Butler can advance to the National Championship game and have a very good shot at winning it. In this tournament they've shown the can play against size, zone defense and man to man defense. They've been able to effectively manage everything that's been thrown at them over the last 4 games. Now I'm not calling them a prohibitive favorite, but I think they've shown that they have what it takes to at least challenge for the 'ship. I'm NOT a Butler fan by any means (in fact I kinda thought they were overrated for most of the season, let's face it the Horizon League sucks) but what they've shown in the tourney does lead me to believe they have a shot at winning it all.

[X-band '01]

Here's a drinking game for Saturday - take 1 shot every time the announcers mention that Butler is 6-7 miles from Lucas Oil Stadium (down Meridian Street) and take 1 shot every time you see one Earvin "Magic" Johnson on TV.

[The_Mack_Pack]

In order for the mid-major label to be thrown in the trash teams like Butler need to win the championship. Go Dogs! At least 1 out of every 4-5 years either Xavier, Butler, and Gonzaga need to try and make a final four. Butler is already there and Xavier is so close I can practically see the trophy now.

[thefortyniner]

In order for the mid-major label to be thrown in the trash teams like Butler need to win the championship. Go Dogs! At least 1 out of every 4-5 years either Xavier, Butler, and Gonzaga need to try and make a final four. Butler is already there and Xavier is so close I can practically see the trophy now.

I would love for us to join that party as well.

[AviatorX]

In order for the mid-major label to be thrown in the trash teams like Butler need to win the championship. Go Dogs! At least 1 out of every 4-5 years either Xavier, Butler, and Gonzaga need to try and make a final four. Butler is already there and Xavier is so close I can practically see the trophy now.

We should probably throw Davidson in there too...


Only kidding 49ers.

[BandAid]

My Final Four cheering order:
1. Michigan State
2. Butler
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11. Duke and West Viriginia

[GuyFawkes38]

Why is that the case? On the road to the Final Four they've beaten a #1 and a #2 seed, injuries and other circumstances aside that is still a great effort. They now a face a Michigan State team that, despite recent success, is missing their starting guard (and arguably best player) Kailin Lucas. I think Butler can advance to the National Championship game and have a very good shot at winning it. In this tournament they've shown the can play against size, zone defense and man to man defense. They've been able to effectively manage everything that's been thrown at them over the last 4 games. Now I'm not calling them a prohibitive favorite, but I think they've shown that they have what it takes to at least challenge for the 'ship. I'm NOT a Butler fan by any means (in fact I kinda thought they were overrated for most of the season, let's face it the Horizon League sucks) but what they've shown in the tourney does lead me to believe they have a shot at winning it all.

The rest of the field is extraordinarily weak this year.

[kyxu]

The rest of the field is extraordinarily weak this year.

Even so, what Butler's done should not be minimized. If we were in their shoes right now, the quality of the rest of the field wouldn't make a lick of difference to us.

[xavierj]

The rest of the field is extraordinarily weak this year.

OK. Butler can get there next year as well. I don't know this but who is going to be so much better than Butler next year? They bring everyone back, unless Hayward goes pro (many think he is lottery now). I also think Shelvin Mack is a pro too. Now if Hayward comes back and with the system they have they can just as easy get there next year.

Please tell me why the field will be so much stronger next year?

[GuyFawkes38]

I don't think everyone is fully appreciating how weak the field is.

UCLA, UNC, Arizona, Uconn, Indiana, and Illinois did not even play in the tourney. Combine that with a lot of oddly weak NCAA tourney teams.

I guess maybe next year Butler will still benefit from a recovering field. But chances are they will lose along the way.

Like I said, I don't think Butler will ever get this close to winning it all again. We might not ever get so close to winning it all. So they better take advantage of it.

(yes, I do think you should discount their Final Four run a bit because the field is so weak).

[xavierj]

It is not weak it is called parity. As long as the one and done rule is in place teams like butler can win it all. UCLA, NC, and teams like they will struggle as long as they recruit the one and done. It is ok if you have 1 every now and again but 2 every year will catch up. Kentucky will not be as good next year because they will lose 5 guys. Had they not sacrificed the program they may have been better off in two years. I like where Xavier sits in this thing and do not want any of the rules changed. The day the NBA switches the rules on 1 and dones and makes them stay 3 years is the day the runs of George mason and butler will end.

[stophorseabuse]

To say Butler has done anything less than earn this trip every step of the way is assanine. They beat a 2 then a 1. And to say they lucked out by playing Murray St. is silly. Murray was as good as Vandy, and prob. wanted to beat Butler more than any team in the nation. Butler has been as big time as any program in America this year save Kansas.

Now, as a program I think Butler might be a Cinderella for a Final 4 (Baylor was even more of a Cinderella for a program though), but their current players match up with anybody.

[stophorseabuse]

1 more thing.

Thad left Butler to go to Xavier (better chance at winning big).

Then left X for the same reason.

How great would it be if Butler beat Thad to a national championship. That would thrill me.

[Snipe]

1 more thing.

Thad left Butler to go to Xavier (better chance at winning big).

Then left X for the same reason.

How great would it be if Butler beat Thad to a national championship. That would thrill me.


Wouldn't it be great if both Butler and Xavier beat Thad to a national championship?

Suck it Thad!

[GuyFawkes38]

I disagree with Jay Bilas a lot, but I think he's right about this. Asked a couple days ago if a mid major could win the title, he said "no" for most years. But the field is so weak this year that it's possible.

I don't like the label "mid major". But I do think Bilas is generally right about this. When there are 3 or 4 really strong 1 seeds (like UNC last year), its going be very hard for Gonzaga, Butler or us to win a title. When the field is really weak, like this year, we had a great chance (as does Butler still this year).

I don't know why that's so "assanine". If Butler pulls it off this year, you'd have to not only credit Butler, but also the weak field.

[xavierj]

It was so weak that a team with 5 lottery picks did not make it to the final 4.

[GuyFawkes38]

It was so weak that a team with 5 lottery picks did not make it to the final 4.

come on now. most of those 5 lottery players are freshmen.

Usually every year there's 2-4 teams with a combination of talent and experience to be really great. This year there aren't any teams like that.

There's no 2005/2009 UNC team this year (or a 2008 Florida team, or even a 2005 Illinois team).

[xavierj]

come on now. most of those 5 lottery players are freshmen.

Usually every year there's 2-4 teams with a combination of talent and experience to be really great. This year there aren't any teams like that.

There's no 2005/2009 UNC team this year (or a 2008 Florida team).

OK. Was it a weak year when the Fab 5 went to the final 4? What exactly determines weak and strong years? Does the tournament have to include UCLA, Arizona and North Carolina in order to be considered strong? Was it a weak year when Florida won it when George Mason was in the final 4? I am confused of what constitutes strong and weak years but I am glad you and Jay Bilas are around to enlighten us. So I would imagine that if Kentucky, Syracuse, Duke and Kansas were in the final 4 then no one would be talking about it being a weak year, especially Jay Bilas. But since a 5 seed Butler (who was jobbed on seeding) made it to the final 4 it has to be a weak year.

[joebba]

I too have come to terms with Butler. No doubt they have earned their spot. I just wish they did not get to the final four before X with our consistent improvement toward that end.

I too thought it would be very ironic if Butler wins it all before, Thad "you're just a stepping stone" Matta.

[joebba]

I actually work with a Guy in Indy who grew up in Milan (you know of "Hoosier's" fame.). He would have been a babe when Milan won the tournament. He was actually talking with the guy that the "Jimmy" character was based on, who ended up going to Butler.

It is a huge deal here in Indy.

[GuyFawkes38]

OK. Was it a weak year when the Fab 5 went to the final 4? What exactly determines weak and strong years? Does the tournament have to include UCLA, Arizona and North Carolina in order to be considered strong? Was it a weak year when Florida won it when George Mason was in the final 4? I am confused of what constitutes strong and weak years but I am glad you and Jay Bilas are around to enlighten us. So I would imagine that if Kentucky, Syracuse, Duke and Kansas were in the final 4 then no one would be talking about it being a weak year, especially Jay Bilas. But since a 5 seed Butler (who was jobbed on seeding) made it to the final 4 it has to be a weak year.

Jay Bilas said several times during the ESPN's bracketology show that the field is weak. Like Jay Bilas, I was thinking the same thing all year. Texas at one point this year was the #1 ranked team in the country. They ended up being an #8 seed.

Butler has a really good chance to win it this year (according to vegas 5/2 odds). If you look back at the last 10 years, I don't think this butler team would have a chance (except maybe 2006 when Florida won for the 1st time).

[xavierj]

Does it really matter though? I don't know if it is down or not. I do know that there are like 20 guys who played in the tourney who are leaving college early for millions and that most likely includes a guy who plays for Butler. I would say that there where and are a bunch of dudes that played in the tourney this year that can flat out play. I mean we had a guy at Xavier that did things no Xavier player has ever done before, the guy was sick at times. If Butler wins then they win. The trophy will say the same thing it said for Florida, UCLA, North Carolina, Michigan St. UCONN, Syracuse, Maryland, Indiana and any other University that has won it all. It will say National Champions and it will not have an a disclaimer that says, weak field. No one really knows if it is weak or not.

[GuyFawkes38]

Does it really matter though? I don't know if it is down or not. I do know that there are like 20 guys who played in the tourney who are leaving college early for millions and that most likely includes a guy who plays for Butler. I would say that there where and are a bunch of dudes that played in the tourney this year that can flat out play. I mean we had a guy at Xavier that did things no Xavier player has ever done before, the guy was sick at times. If Butler wins then they win. The trophy will say the same thing it said for Florida, UCLA, North Carolina, Michigan St. UCONN, Syracuse, Maryland, Indiana and any other University that has won it all. It will say National Champions and it will not have an a disclaimer that says, weak field. No one really knows if it is weak or not.

That's completely true.

I think my original point is true also. Butler won't get many more chances like this. Everything is aligning (yes, they have a good team, but it's also true that the field is abnormally weak this year).

[xubrew]

but it's also true that the field is abnormally weak this year

guy, what are you basing this on?? i'm not saying you're right or wrong, but i'd like to know where you're coming up with this.

you mentioned that indiana, illinois, north carolina and ucla weren't in the field, but all that really means is that the brand names aren't in it. it doesn't mean the overall quality of the field is any worse than it typically is.

villanova, dayton, kansas, michigan, california, washington, oklahoma state and texas were all teams that were in the field last year and returned a significant amount of their contributing players for this season. i'm pretty sure all of those teams advanced last year. this year, they either didn't make it, barely made it, or didn't go nearly as far. so, considering that those teams were members of a field that wasn't weak last year, and returned the nucleus of their teams for this year but didn't do as well, couldn't one conclude that the field is in fact just as strong as it normally is?? i mean, those teams were able to have success a year ago, and didn't match it this year with most of the nucelus of their teams returning.

as far as the #1 seeds, louisville was the top #1 seed with six losses last year. north carolina i believe had four losses. this year both kentucky and kansas had much better records and had been more dominant during the regular season.

i for one think that we saw a lot of teams from outside the major conferences that were at the top of their talent cycles this year. therefore, we had some good teams that we aren't as used to seeing. that doesn't mean that the field was weak. it just means that some of the teams weren't as recognizable.

jay bilas and espn spend 90% of their time covering about 15% of the teams. it doesn't surprise me that they would say the field is weak if more teams from outside their 15% are in it. i don't necessarily agree with them. i just think it means that there were more good teams from outside the bcs than what there have been in awhile.

[GuyFawkes38]

I'm not really sure about the middle of the pack. But I do think it's absolutely true that usually there are 1-3 really great teams that have a combo of both lottery draft talent and some valuable experience. Randomly, this year there isn't any team that has that combo (teams like UCLA, Uconn, Unc etc.. often have that great combo, but not this year...maybe Kansas had it).

I can't see Butler having a chance over Uconn or UNC last year. I can't see Butler beating Kasas or Memphis the previous year, or Florida in 2007.

I can't prove that. Its just a gut kind of thing.

[SlimKibbles]

I really don't understand this whole "weak field" argument at all.

[xubrew]

But I do think it's absolutely true that usually there are 1-3 really great teams that have a combo of both lottery draft talent and some valuable experience

kentucky has three freshmen lottory picks, patrick patterson (another nba player), and darius miller. if that's not a combination of lottery draft talent and experience i don't know what the hell is.

i'd say kentucky and kansas fit that description to a t.

wesley johnson of syracuse is also a lottery pick.

there are your one to three teams right there. kentucky and kansas were more dominant this year than any #1 seed was last year throughout the season. i fail to see how the field is abnormally weak. i think people that say that are looking at brand names and not the actual product.

[GuyFawkes38]

There seems to be an undercurrent in your argument that there is no such thing as a weak NCAA tourney field. They have the same strength every year.

I think that's false. Some years have better teams than others. I don't think it's controversial to argue that. I can't prove that with stats because the stats themselves will be inflated from weak competition (as will draft picks). But there's a reason why most experts believe that this years field is weaker than last year's field.

[xavierj]

Guy were you the one last year that said Derrick Brown had to leave because last years draft was going to be so much weaker then this year? I agreed and most experts agreed as well. The NBA draft this year is considered very strong. I also think people say this field is weak because NC and UCLA are not in it but they fail to admit that it is actually stronger because the middle and bottom is so much stronger. There really are no upsets anymore. Every year a 8, 9, 10 or 11 seed can beat #1 and no one is all that shocked.

[xubrew]

There seems to be an undercurrent in your argument that there is no such thing as a weak NCAA tourney field.

maybe so, but that's really not what i'm going for.

those who are saying the field is weaker (and i don't mean just you) don't seem to have any sort of current to their argument at all. they just make the baseless statement that the field is weak. even if the field isn't of equal strength from hyear to year, what makes THIS field weaker than last year's??

again, i point out the fact that teams that were solidly in the field last year, did well, and returned the nucleus of their team didn't do nearly as well this year. if last year's field was strong, i don't think the results of this year's tournament are any sort of demonstration that it isn't at least as strong when teams who were solidly in and successful last year didn't do well this year.

at least i'm pointing to SOMETHING to back up my statement. people who are saying the field is weak aren't pointing to anything. i believe the only reason they're saying the field is weak is because of the brand names.

[xubrew]

Guy were the one last year that said Derrick brown had to leave because last years draft was going to be so much weaker then this year? I agreed and most experts agreed as well. The NBA draft this year is considered very strong. I also think people say this field is weak because NC and UCLA are not in it but they fail to admit that it is actually stronger because the middle and bottom is so much stronger. There really are no upsets anymore. Every year a 8, 9, 10 or 11 seed can beat #1 and no one is all that shocked.

this is a very good point as well.