I need help

[DC Muskie]

I need some help here. Well I need help in a lot of areas, but I'm looking for so help in one particular area.

It's how Dayton is killing the NCAA tournament.

Imagine, you are a player at Arkansas-Pine Bluff. This is your year. In 2009 you finished 13-18 and were knocked out of the conference tournament by Alabama State. Your season over. No "One shining Moment" for you. 2010 could not come soon enough.

November and December rolls around and you get your brains beat in collecting checks all over the country...UTEP, Arizona St, Missouri, Michigan, Oklahoma State, Kansas State, Georgia Tech...heck you even lost to Colorado and Oregon.

You don't win your first game until January 4th. You're 1-11.

You have everyone right where you want them.

You reel off seven straight wins. You finish in second in the conference. You catch a break when Grambling upsets top seed Jackson State! You revenge your defeat last year by knocking off Alabama State! CONFERENCE CHAMPS! CONFERENCE CHAMPS!

CONGRATULATIONS YOU'RE GOING TO DAYTON!

Awesome, first round game, probably against a Kansas, or a Duke, or maybe even West Virginia.

Wait, what? That's not the case. You're playing in Dayton, but it's for the right to play Kansas, or Duke, or even West Virginia.

What the hell is that about?

Dayton prides itself on attending this game. And it looked like another full crowd of knuckle draggers and mouth breathers to see a game that really isn't a tournament game. And the NCAA loves this. Because now they have a group of people who support this charade.

Am I wrong here? Is this is a good thing? Supporting a game that keeps team like APB from experiencing a real live NCAA tournament game. Supporting an idea that teams like APB need to collect pay checks at the beginning and then no reward at the end.

It's because of this play-in game that the NCAA is going to expand the tournament. They will probably play all of these expanded games at Dayton, because Dayton surely understands the value of playing games that in the end have no shining moment whatsoever.

[RealDeal]

I went to X from 1986 to 1990, a few of those years X was a 16 seed. It makes me sick to think of the teams that think they get in but have to play in that freaking sham that the big conferences came up with to get another at large selection.

I heard on Mo Eggers show the other day that the tournament really took off and became the sensation it is today when the current system of automatic bids for the small conference winners was put into place. Seems the BCS conferences want to ruin it.

[XURunner85]

When I was at X we played the play in game against Praire View I think...we lost (another reason to hate dayton) by a few points....I wish they would use this game for the team that gets screwed (not saying someone got screwed this year) but Va Tech could have been in this tournament...so why not take the last team in and the last team out and make them play the play in game and the winner is the 9th seed....it would more interesting and would prevent a smaller conference from being knocked out before getting in....:sword:

[Masterofreality]

When I was at X we played the play in game against Praire View I think...

.....Alcorn State.

We lost, but the real start of the Xavier basketball resurgence under Bob Staak.

[RealDeal]

When I was at X we played the play in game against Praire View I think...we lost (another reason to hate dayton) by a few points....I wish they would use this game for the team that gets screwed (not saying someone got screwed this year) but Va Tech could have been in this tournament...so why not take the last team in and the last team out and make them play the play in game and the winner is the 9th seed....it would more interesting and would prevent a smaller conference from being knocked out before getting in....:sword:

I agree, it's so simple just use the play in game for the last 2 at large selections. Don't screw the small conference teams that already played their way in.

[BandAid]

Congrats to Arkansas Pines-Bluff. They won the pleasure of getting the hell out of Dayton.

The Golden Lions started 1-11 this year...look out Dookies! They're hot!

[SlimKibbles]

I went to X from 1986 to 1990, a few of those years X was a 16 seed. It makes me sick to think of the teams that think they get in but have to play in that freaking sham that the big conferences came up with to get another at large selection.
....

X has never been a 16-seed in the Dance. I can recall every single opponent they've had in the post-season since 1986 and they were never a 16.


.....Alcorn State.

We lost, but the real start of the Xavier basketball resurgence under Bob Staak.

1983. There were only 52 teams in that tournament.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_NCAA_Men%27s_Division_I_Basketball_Tournament

[Xpectations]

X has never been a 16-seed in the Dance. I can recall every single opponent they've had in the post-season since 1986 and they were never a 16.

You are correct. Xavier's worst-ever seed was a #14, receiving it three times. The first time we received a 14-seed was 1989 when we lost 92-87 to Michigan, who went on to win the National Championship that season.

The second time was 1991 when we played, and beat, Nebraska 89-84.

Our final #14 seeding was in 2006 under Sean Miller, when Gonzaga edged us 79-75 after Finn was suspended and Thornton was injured and out for the season. Johnny Wolf, our backup PG, was also injured but played.

We were right there in the game in all of the #3 vs #14 games.

The play-in game wasn't actually implemented until they added 65 teams in the 2001 NCAA Tournament.

[SlimKibbles]

You are correct. Xavier's worst-ever seed was a #14, receiving it three times. The first time we received a 14-seed was 1989 when we lost 92-87 to Michigan, who went on to win the National Championship that season.

The second time was 1991 when we played, and beat, Nebraska 89-84.

Our final #14 seeding was in 2006 under Sean Miller, when Gonzaga edged us 79-75 after Finn was suspended and Thornton was injured and out for the season. Johnny Wolf, our backup PG, was also injured but played.

We were right there in the game in all of the #3 vs #14 games.

The play-in game wasn't actually implemented until they added 65 teams in the 2001 NCAA Tournament.

I was going to say that they were a 14-seed in 1987 when they beat Missouri but it looks like they were a 13-seed because the Tigers were a 4-seed. That Gonzaga game in '06 was a joke. Other than the Damon Bailey delay in '93, and the Oden shove on Cage in '07, I don't think I've gone as ballistic as I did when Adam Morrison wrapped his arm around Justin Doellman, drove around him, and got the foul called on JD while making the shot, I think.

[DC Muskie]

Congrats to Arkansas Pines-Bluff. They won the pleasure of getting the hell out of Dayton.

Poor Winthrop. Tough loss to take.

[nuts4xu]

I went to X from 1986 to 1990, a few of those years X was a 16 seed.


Anyone who actually thought Xavier was a 16 seed has a foggy memory of our history. You must have been double fisting bong hits in Brockman during those years you were on campus.

[RealDeal]

Anyone who actually thought Xavier was a 16 seed has a foggy memory of our history. You must have been double fisting bong hits in Brockman during those years you were on campus.

Apparently I was :). I thought we played Michigan and Kansas when they were #1 seeds as they won it all.

[Kahns Krazy]

The other 3 16 seeds wish they were in the play-in (Actually "Opening Round") game. My understanding is that game counts us like any other NCAA tournament game, with the winner receiving the same financial rewards as any other team that wins a game in the tournament. Only 16 teams will have more NCAA wins this year than Arkansas Pine Bluff.

[Snipe]

Both teams are winners as they both get to leave Dayton after the game. Sometimes going to Dayton shows the rest of us how fortunate we really are.

[xubrew]

the play-in game is stupid. technically kahns is right. it's an opening round game and not a play-in game. practically, though, it's a play-in game.

i've been expecting for a long time for them to one day expand out to 68 and have four #17 seeds instead of just one. that may actually make it a little better because at least the opening round would somewhat resemble a tournament atmosphere. however, i'd much rather just see it go down to 64.

the tournament is big enough. the logic that "more teams deserve a chance to play" is only appliied to college basketball, and the only people applying it don't watch college basketball prior to march. that is like saying that the nfl should expand the playoffs because there are good teams like the steelers that didn't get a chance to play. the reality is that the steelers did get a chance. so did illinois, so did mississippi state. so did other teams that just missed. the regular season is their chance. if you factor in the conference tournaments, all the teams actually have two chances. it's not fair to make conference champions and/or teams who earned an at-large bid to play an extra game to make the field of 64 after they've already played thirty games during the season. thirty games is more than enough to give all 340+ teams a chance. it's also enough to thoroughly examine and evaluate who should be in.

[nuts4xu]

technically kahns is right.

I know it pains you to say this.....but kahns is a righteous dude.

"The sportos and motor heads, geeks, sluts, bloods, wastoids, dweebies, dickheads...they all adore him. They think he's a righteous dude."

[Xman95]

"The sportos and motor heads, geeks, sluts, bloods, wastoids, dweebies, dickheads...they all adore him. They think he's a righteous dude."

That is why I need to show these kids that the example he sets is a first-class ticket to nowhere!