Should Lowery Be Suspended for the NIT?

[Woodburn]

I think it's hilarious that this is a hot topic on udpride right now. Hilarious for lots of reasons. See http://www.udpride.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13666

[GuyFawkes38]

I'm surprised by the anger at Lowry at UDpride. Part of me think the ref shouldn't have made that call at that point of the game.

Regardless, most UD fans fully blame Lowry.

[Michigan Muskie]

I'm surprised by the anger at Lowry at UDpride. Part of me think the ref shouldn't have made that call at that point of the game.

Regardless, most UD fans fully blame Lowry.

What part of you thought that? The part that thinks there are different rules in the last minute of the game than there are in the first 39?

The call is black and white. Punch = technical foul. There could be 19:59 on the clock or 0:01 and it's a T. No questions asked. The Dayton fans have every right to be pissed at Roberta.

[GuyFawkes38]

I'm glad the T was called. But the refs could have gotten away with a no call (did anyone see the punch on the live broadcast). Lots of times in end of game situations, the refs are much kinder.

[kane79]

i kind of aggre with guy, i mean first instinct was, this team knows theri going to win this game already, why give the UD fans something to cry about, why make that call when dayton already knows they are going to lose this close one cause thats what they do and xavier is going to win cause thats what we do, but your right a punch is a punch. I almost wish they woudl have called it a double just so we could have won without this hanging over the game and given the cryers one less thing to complain about, but then i realized they would have just found something else to bitch about and blame the loss on so screw it.

[Michigan Muskie]

I'm glad the T was called. But the refs could have gotten away with a no call (did anyone see the punch on the live broadcast). Lots of times in end of game situations, the refs are much kinder.

Sure, I've seen refs swallow their whistles when games get a bit physical. But I've never, ever seen a ref not T up a guy for punching someone. And from his angle, he wouldn't have been able to tell if Robin actually landed that punch. But really, it shouldn't matter - he took a swing with intent to punch. His fist was closed.

Was he intending harm or brutality? I don't think so. He was emotionally distraught and lashed out. But rules are in place for a reason and once you let one punch slide, where do you start drawing the lines for the next punch?

It was the right call and I'm not even sure it's debatable. Yet, here I am debating it.

[gladdenguy]

of course I got the text from the "UC fan" who said what a pussy a$$ league the A-10 is. In the Big East that would have been a warning...blah blah blah.

Bottom line...Lowery threw a punch. Technical foul automatically. Dumb a$$

[Michigan Muskie]

i kind of aggre with guy, i mean first instinct was, this team knows theri going to win this game already, why give the UD fans something to cry about, why make that call when dayton already knows they are going to lose this close one cause thats what they do and xavier is going to win cause thats what we do, but your right a punch is a punch. I almost wish they woudl have called it a double just so we could have won without this hanging over the game and given the cryers one less thing to complain about, but then i realized they would have just found something else to bitch about and blame the loss on so screw it.

A double on whom? Did someone else throw a punch? If you think there should have been a foul called on Holloway you need to watch the play again in live speed. Tutu slapped the ball out of Lowery's hand right after he signaled for a timeout. But just because you signal for a time out doesn't mean play stops. The ref has to grant your wish. Tutu's slap happened nanoseconds after the whistle blew. Not a foul - just playing until the whistle.

[kane79]

i agree michigan, its not a debatable call, my point was i just hate that the cryers have this to blame the game on when everyone knew the outcome before that even happened. winners win and losers lose.

[Michigan Muskie]

i agree michigan, its not a debatable call, my point was i just hate that the cryers have this to blame the game on when everyone knew the outcome before that even happened. winners win and losers lose.

I bet you'll find more Dayton fans who are upset with Lowery for losing his cool than those who blame the refs for that call.

That said, many of them are blaming the refs for many other calls during the game. I suppose they're fine with Chris Wright taking 3 1/2 steps to the basket, or Dayton defenders jumping into our jump shooters (making body contact) with no whistles being called since it favors them.

Kind of like the "classy" argument - fans ALWAYS remember the calls that go against their team but never seem to remember the just-as-many whistles that were in their favor.

[kane79]

back to your original point though, i'm more curious if the the shoe was on the other foot how this board would respond. For instance lets say Redford takes a swing at a Dayton player(i just love the image of this) would we be calling for his suspension, supporting him for doing what every xavier fan would love to do, or blow it off as to the intesity of the game and forget about it? Personaly i don't think the dayton kid should be suspened, emotinos get out of line in an intense situation like that sometimes, he didn't try to hurt anyone or even really land what one could call a real punch. I think his emotion got the best of him and he made a really dumb decision and the fact that that is how he ended his college carreer is enough punishment.

[PM Thor]

Watch the video again like I did. The ref is literally a foot away, and you can HEAR the punch landing. It happens right after the whistle ends. The ref absolutely has to call that, he was inches away from it.

It sucks that it had to end that way, but it's a dayton player who made a stupid mistake, just think what dayton fans would say if it were reversed.

And Lowery threw a punch, he should have been thrown out and suspended for the next game, if they have one.

[kane79]

A double on whom? Did someone else throw a punch? If you think there should have been a foul called on Holloway you need to watch the play again in live speed. Tutu slapped the ball out of Lowery's hand right after he signaled for a timeout. But just because you signal for a time out doesn't mean play stops. The ref has to grant your wish. Tutu's slap happened nanoseconds after the whistle blew. Not a foul - just playing until the whistle.

i'm the first one that said i like that play that he played to the whistle, i was just saying i hate hearing all these dayton cryers whining about it and ALMOST wished they called a double to appease them so they couldn't cry about this one call wehn every player on that court already knew the game was over. Didn't say i actualy thought it was a foul though. i agree with u on that

[Michigan Muskie]

back to your original point though, i'm more curious if the the shoe was on the other foot how this board would respond. For instance lets say Redford takes a swing at a Dayton player(i just love the image of this) would we be calling for his suspension, supporting him for doing what every xavier fan would love to do, or blow it off as to the intesity of the game and forget about it? Personaly i don't think the dayton kid should be suspened, emotinos get out of line in an intense situation like that sometimes, he didn't try to hurt anyone or even really land what one could call a real punch. I think his emotion got the best of him and he made a really dumb decision and the fact that that is how he ended his college carreer is enough punishment.

I think we're talking about two different things here:

1) Guy's contention that maybe the ref's should have let it go
2) How the fans react to the play

You already know how I feel about number 1.

Number 2 assumes that Xavier fans would react the same as Dayton fans. Truth be told, we act a lot alike at times. Some of us are waaaaaaay extreme and others seem to be capable of logical thought no matter the circumstance.

So yes, I'm almost certain some Xavier fans would call for suspension of some kind. I can tell you that I wouldn't be one of them. (And I don't think Lowery deserves any further punishment than his T either.)

[xavierj]

back to your original point though, i'm more curious if the the shoe was on the other foot how this board would respond. For instance lets say Redford takes a swing at a Dayton player(i just love the image of this) would we be calling for his suspension, supporting him for doing what every xavier fan would love to do, or blow it off as to the intesity of the game and forget about it? Personaly i don't think the dayton kid should be suspened, emotinos get out of line in an intense situation like that sometimes, he didn't try to hurt anyone or even really land what one could call a real punch. I think his emotion got the best of him and he made a really dumb decision and the fact that that is how he ended his college carreer is enough punishment.

Dude seriously, you need help. Maybe they should have just called it a tie or better yet they should just give everyone a trophy. But I did get a chuckle out of the Redford comment.

[kane79]

sounds like we're in agreement mostly michigan unless i'm too drunk to read correctly right now which is a strong possiblity. I think i might not being as clear as i would like with what i'm saying though.

[waggy]

You're saying you give a **** what dayton fans think...

[xavierj]

sounds like we're in agreement mostly michigan unless i'm too drunk to read correctly right now which is a strong possiblity. I think i might not being as clear as i would like with what i'm saying though.

There was one?

[Michigan Muskie]

sounds like we're in agreement mostly michigan unless i'm too drunk to read correctly right now which is a strong possiblity. I think i might not being as clear as i would like with what i'm saying though.

I'm picking up what you're puttin' down. You don't want UD fans to be able to use the T as a crutch and claim it was the only reason Xavier won the game. So being facetious, you thought a double T would put that argument to rest.

Keep drinking and have one for me. This diet is really cramping my style.

[kane79]

Dude seriously, you need help. Maybe they should have just called it a tie or better yet they should just give everyone a trophy. But I did get a chuckle out of the Redford comment.

curious, what did i say that makes u think i need help? the fact i had an opinion? maybe that my opinion differs from yours? not sure. and what did i say that said they shoudl call a tie or anything along those lines?

[kane79]

the fact is i have 10 relatives who have all graduated from dayton, with only 2 from XU so we XU fans are the minority in my family. So most of the year i have to hear every excuse they can think of and hear their continued crying about everything, so yes, every one of these things that gives them one more thign to cry and bitch about is just one more annoying thing i have to hear from them since they have nothing else to lean on.

[xavierj]

curious, what did i say that makes u think i need help? the fact i had an opinion? maybe that my opinion differs from yours? not sure. and what did i say that said they shoudl call a tie or anything along those lines?

I don't know but your post confuse me. Are you typing on a blackberry or something?

[waggy]

every one of these things that gives them one more thign to cry and bitch about is just one more annoying thing i have to hear from them since they have nothing else to lean on.

Buy them a nice gift. I suggest a melon.

[GuyFawkes38]

ultimately, Lowry clinched his fist and made contact.

The refs clearly didn't want to make the call and looked at the replay for a couple minutes. But they had to.

[Strange Brew]

To answer the original question of this thread I would have to say....Who gives a damn.

[kane79]

Buy them a nice gift. I suggest a melon.

many xavier gifts have been given over the years, and those dayton gifts they recipricate with actualy makes decent kindling for the fire pit. actualy got my uncle to star wearing an x sweat shirt i had given him in the past, have to be somewhat nice to hiim though since he was roommates with Tom Iser back in the day and gets me the X media guide every year.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Lowery's facebook profile status (referring to Xavier)...Taken from the Atlantic10 message board

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/1313/loweryfacebook.png

[D-West & PO-Z]

Lowery's facebook profile status (referring to Xavier)...Taken from the Atlantic10 message board

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/1313/loweryfacebook.png

This was obviously before the game though.

[Michigan Muskie]

I guess it's not as bad before the game than a demonstration of poor sportsmanship after.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

This was obviously before the game though.

Ya definitely before the game

[GuyFawkes38]

wow, no sympathy for Lowry at UDpride. Daytons fans don't like him.

I honestly feel bad for a senior to go out like that. Hopefully he has a fun Atlantic City night.

[bobbiemcgee]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFRwQWbv8m4

[Masterofreality]

Does a weak-a$$ bitch slap deserve a tech?

The guy couldn't even throw a decent punch. My kids pitched better dukes when they were 10. Maybe TuTu should have gotten only one free throw for that namby-pamby limp wristed "haymaker". :rolleyes:

That being said, rules a rule. A "T" was called for....

....and Lowery is getting way too much crap.

udump fans are incredible. They should direct all their anger at their Midget coach who couldn't figure out a play to get a field goal for over 10 minutes at the end of the second half. Thank Gawd he's signed until 2018.

[Cincypunk.org]

Weakest way to end a game ever.

[jdm2000]

Re: Lowery's Facebook page (assuming that is in fact his): "wit an AIDS d***" -- and Flyer fans continually complain that our players aren't "classy"? Most baseless criticism ever.

[joebba]

If the whistle had already blown and then Holloway slapped at the ball then I would think a technical foul would be in order on Holloway. Regardless, the thrown punch has to be a technical and ejection even if one could argue instigation.

I too would have rather had a double technical so as to ease potential bitching about it from UD. Even with a double technical the UD player would have to be ejected from the game.

[xavierj]

Weakest way to end a game ever.

No that was the Xavier Butler game.

[Michigan Muskie]

If the whistle had already blown and then Holloway slapped at the ball then I would think a technical foul would be in order on Holloway.

I'm not sure why people, especially X fans, are so quick to accuse Holloway of wrong doing. He was going for a steal while the ball was live. The whistle blew immediately before he slapped the ball. Yes, of course he saw Lowery signaling for a time out which put himself in a very vulnerable position. Holloway tried to take advantage of that and it was a smart play. In no way does he deserve a T for that


I too would have rather had a double technical so as to ease potential bitching about it from UD. Even with a double technical the UD player would have to be ejected from the game.

I guess I understand the idea of this sentiment, but I'm not on board with it myself. Why do we suddenly care so much about what Dayton fans think? Do you see the things their fans say about Xavier on a regular basis? Are we trying to win their support? Never going to happen. It's not like Xavier couldn't have won that game without the T.

[joebba]

I'm not sure why people, especially X fans, are so quick to accuse Holloway of wrong doing. He was going for a steal while the ball was live. The whistle blew immediately before he slapped the ball. Yes, of course he saw Lowery signaling for a time out which put himself in a very vulnerable position. Holloway tried to take advantage of that and it was a smart play. In no way does he deserve a T for that



I guess I understand the idea of this sentiment, but I'm not on board with it myself. Why do we suddenly care so much about what Dayton fans think? Do you see the things their fans say about Xavier on a regular basis? Are we trying to win their support? Never going to happen. It's not like Xavier couldn't have won that game without the T.

I did say if Holloway slapped the ball after the whistle. I did not say he did anything wrong. My sentiment toward the potential of a double technical would only be predicated if the if were true. No matter what could have been called on TuTu, the Dayton player was going to get the technical either way. It is just not the most satisfying way to essentially lock the game for X.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

It was a smart play by Holloway. ALL guards should do the exact same thing.

Lowery was standing straight up calling a timeout. What is Tutu supposed to do? Be gracious and let Lowery call a timout without any pressure? It was simultaneous with the called timeout and you play until you hear the whistle. There is 1 person at fault and that is Lowery for losing his cool

[Michigan Muskie]

I did say if Holloway slapped the ball after the whistle. I did not say he did anything wrong. My sentiment toward the potential of a double technical would only be predicated if the if were true. No matter what could have been called on TuTu, the Dayton player was going to get the technical either way. It is just not the most satisfying way to essentially lock the game for X.

Technically, I believe Holloway did slap the ball after the whistle. It's just that it was so close after that it was considered an act he initiated during live play and just followed through.

I know what you're saying about an incident like that contributing to Xavier's victory may devalue the win, but I think about it differently. Xavier flat-out exposed Dayton's deer-in-the-headlights style of play during the last ten minutes. By the time the punch happened, Dayton's players were in shock. And frustrated. It's not the first time they've been down that trail. Xavier's attacking style was just as much responsible for Lowery's lashing out as Dayton's lack of composure. So while I don't want to see fists fly in any college basketball game, Xavier earned the benefit of that T called against UD.

[kyxu]

Really, I think it's all moot.

Dayton was not going to score on that last possession. They're Dayton. They would've bricked a three or fumbled the ball out of bounds, or fell into a wormhole to give us possession.

The technical foul on Lowery just kept the inevitable from being delayed and saved Flyer fans the unnecessary drama.

[tmac03]

Re: Lowery's Facebook page (assuming that is in fact his): "wit an AIDS d***" -- and Flyer fans continually complain that our players aren't "classy"? Most baseless criticism ever.

That's what jumped out at me too. Wow, that's incredible. Hard to feel sorry for a guy saying stuff like that.

[boozehound]

Personally I don't give a damn what Dayton fans think. Some of you guys are acting like they wouldn't have found something else to blame the loss on had the 'T' not been called. They are Dayton fans, there will always be an excuse.

Besides, at that point everybody knew that they were going to lose, 'T' or no 'T'.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

What's funny is Lowery did the EXACT SAME THING in the 1st game at Cintas Center late in the 2nd half. I am making a Crawford video and as I was fast forwarding, I saw our guy stop and call a timeout. Immediately after Lowery came flying in and stripped the ball.

[xuab]

What's funny is Lowery did the EXACT SAME THING in the 1st game at Cintas Center late in the 2nd half. I am making a Crawford video and as I was fast forwarding, I saw our guy stop and call a timeout. Immediately after Lowery came flying in and stripped the ball.

Will you post that video somewhere or could you tell me at what time in the game that happened. I still have that game on DVR and I want to see it.

[vee4xu]

I am no ud sympathizer. Quite the contrary in fact. But, looking at this situation as objectively as someone as anti-ud as can be possible, Lowery is a competitor and the situation was tense. He's a senior who's watching his last chance to play in an NCAA tournament go down the crapper. I believe that what he did was a reaction to all of these factors. Was it wrong, yes. Should he be vilified by his own fans, no. What the ud faithful have to realize is that if not for Lowery, ud would not have even been in position to win when he committed that technical foul. One look at his stat line is enough to tell anyone with a brain as much. But hey, we are talking about ud fans, so if a brain is required, I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Will you post that video somewhere or could you tell me at what time in the game that happened. I still have that game on DVR and I want to see it.

K I just rewatched bits and pieces. It appears I was wrong on it being a timeout. With 3:10 left in the game, there was a problem with the clock and Lowery stole the ball as the refs blew the whistle. Then he kicked the ball into the floor in anger...

He played until he heard the whistle, just like Tutu did

I could have sworn there was a timeout one because I remember thinking "Sh%&, he stole the ball" because it was so loud I couldn't hear the whistle. I couldn't find that though I may be thinking of the game at UD or something who knows

[muskienick]

i agree michigan, its not a debatable call, my point was i just hate that the cryers have this to blame the game on when everyone knew the outcome before that even happened. winners win and losers lose.

Come on, kane! If it hadn't been "the unjust T," some of the Cryers would have found another equally inane excuse for the Xavier win. It's their MO!