UC & Mick Cronin

[REF]

Last year Mick didn't wait long to talk about how the A10 champ wouln't finish in the top half of the Big East - he used it to say that most teams in the Big East should get invite before anyone from the A10. I recall he was griping about being left out. SOOO, how long till he starts attacking the A10 to justify inclusion of 8,9 or 10 BE teams?

Is Cronin out, or do they give him another year to get in?

[danaandvictory]

Last year Mick didn't wait long to talk about how the A10 champ wouln't finish in the top half of the Big East - he used it to say that most teams in the Big East should get invite before anyone from the A10. I recall he was griping about being left out. SOOO, how long till he starts attacking the A10 to justify inclusion of 8,9 or 10 BE teams?

He's actually been doing it all year.

[JimCoker]

Please give him another year.

[Masterofreality]

I'll have to tune in online to Mo Egger today to see what he has to say.

[xsteve1]

I've got to think Miller is referring to Cronin with this comment...

"I came from this area where I was this coach who every time he lost he'd say the team was young," Miller said. "If they won, he would never talk about how young his team was.

[Murph85]

On the subject of will Cronin be back I found a recent conversation I heard interesting.

I do not follow anything that goes on with UC except and occasional score in the paper or an article on a recruit. What I overheard was the fact that UC has a decent buyout to get rid of him (Cronin) and next to zero in funds to do so. Even if they come up with the buyout they have to lure another coach and we know a solid established coach does not come cheap. It seems the football success has taken away fom the basketball budget.

I am not losing much sleep over the matter and give thanks for our basketball situation every day along with the health of my kids. Mack is the conduit to the final four. I think we are within five years now.

[Cheesehead]

I would like to know whay Gates who was 6-9 from field w/ 14 points and Born Ready were sitting on the bench for end of regulation and all of OT. Anyone heard? I don't think Anthony Buford cares much for Mick as he kept wondering why Mick didn't have his 2 best players on the court.

[paulxu]

I would like to know whay Gates who was 6-9 from field w/ 14 points and Born Ready were sitting on the bench for end of regulation and all of OT. Anyone heard? I don't think Anthony Buford cares much for Mick as he kept wondering why Mick didn't have his 2 best players on the court.

Here's a guy just dying to answer your questions:

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100221/COL03/302210015/1007/SPT/Must-wins++turn+into+just+win+for+UC

And the best line from the entire article:

I thought he was UC’s Jordan Crawford. I thought his size and ability to create would make everyone better. Especially by now. Now, he’s regressing faster than 8-track tapes.

[Titanxman04]

Wow. I just had to smile while reading through all of that. The Bearcats were supposed to be nasty this year. Stevenson was going to run the Big East according to UC fans. Hell, I thought he was one and done, and while talented, he certainly hasn't been living up to all the hype.

Yancy Gates v Kenny Frease? Well, For a while I felt it was a wash, but recently with Kenny coming around, I don't think it's much of a debate. King Kenny, hands down.

[danaandvictory]

I've got to think Miller is referring to Cronin with this comment...

"I came from this area where I was this coach who every time he lost he'd say the team was young," Miller said. "If they won, he would never talk about how young his team was.

Do you have a link for that? I need a chuckle this morning.

[Murph85]

These guys both have more baggage than an oversold Delta flight.

Out of HS Gates had a lazy tag on him and it shows about every game. It even showed in the Deveroes league. He is tough when he wants to play hard and is never around the rim when he is not motivated like he was playing against Love over the summer. His HS coach, a Xavier alum I will not name, said without saying that X had very little interest except to not shun a local kid. They were aware that it is not wise to downplay or badmouth a local. If you think about it, he is almost the exact opposite of J. Love who has worked his ass off to get to where he is at.

Stevenson. Nobody else except St. Johns had an interest at the end of his recruit for a number of reasons. Now we know why. Best to stay away from the Lloyd Prices of the world. They never work in our system.

[Cheesehead]

I was talking w/ a St. X coach about Nancy when St. X beat them in the HS playoffs a coupe of years ago. This is what he said. "It's like the guy is bored out there. He not only takes possessions off but he takes quarters off too. We had no one physically who could stop the guy but yet he didn't dominate us and we were able to beat them."

I still think it was a horrible call by Cronin not to have Gates in there. They guy was 6-9 from the field w 14 points.

[joe titan]

Although this may appear more to Cronin's defense than intended, Stephenson has "struggled" (i.e. stunk) for a few games and Marquette's small quick team really only highlights holes in his game. Stephenson also CANNOT come close to guarding any of Marquette's players; he did not belong on the floor yesterday.

Gates as well has match up problems vs. Marquette. Strong to the boards and defend the post--fine-- but Marquette plays no inside guys at all.

Contrast with the fact that Larry Davis played his best game of the season and Dion Dixon played well too and you will see more reason for Cronin to match up the way he did. Bishop absolutelyl"Caged" Haward.

Cronin did not blow the game for UC; check FT stats w/UC 50% vs. Marquette's 90%.

[Cheesehead]

Although this may appear more to Cronin's defense than intended, Stephenson has "struggled" (i.e. stunk) for a few games and Marquette's small quick team really only highlights holes in his game. Stephenson also CANNOT come close to guarding any of Marquette's players; he did not belong on the floor yesterday.

Gates as well has match up problems vs. Marquette. Strong to the boards and defend the post--fine-- but Marquette plays no inside guys at all.

Contrast with the fact that Larry Davis played his best game of the season and Dion Dixon played well too and you will see more reason for Cronin to match up the way he did. Bishop absolutelyl"Caged" Haward.

Cronin did not blow the game for UC; check FT stats w/UC 50% vs. Marquette's 90%.

He certainly didn't help either. The fact that MU plays no inside guys at all illustrates the point that Gates should have been in there. Hayward hit some big threes on someone.

[XU 87]

If you put Gates in the game, doesn't Marquette have a matchup problem guarding him down low?

I don't understand why he doesn't play two of his best players- two players who supposedly are NBA players. There's no excuse. It's simply poor coaching.

[Cheesehead]

In fact, now that I think of it, Hayward got most of his points when Gates was out, so I think someone must have watched a different game.

[xavierj]

Although this may appear more to Cronin's defense than intended, Stephenson has "struggled" (i.e. stunk) for a few games and Marquette's small quick team really only highlights holes in his game. Stephenson also CANNOT come close to guarding any of Marquette's players; he did not belong on the floor yesterday.

Gates as well has match up problems vs. Marquette. Strong to the boards and defend the post--fine-- but Marquette plays no inside guys at all.

Contrast with the fact that Larry Davis played his best game of the season and Dion Dixon played well too and you will see more reason for Cronin to match up the way he did. Bishop absolutelyl"Caged" Haward.

Cronin did not blow the game for UC; check FT stats w/UC 50% vs. Marquette's 90%.

OK well Cronin recruits the players (who everyone says how great he is at recruiting) and he coaches them but they all suck and they will end up around 13th in the Big East in his 4th year. Maybe his recruiting is all hype and he just really sucks at coaching the guys he has. Maybe he should try to recruit a few guys with basketball skills rather then guys who can jump really high and run really fast.

[Drew's Crew]

Yancy Gates v Kenny Frease? Well, For a while I felt it was a wash, but recently with Kenny coming around, I don't think it's much of a debate. King Kenny, hands down.

Seriously?? You must not watch UC basketball because Gates is the only "consistent" (when it comes to UC basketball, it takes much less to be consistent than in an XU jersey) player they have. Their problem is that their coaching is a joke and their offense outside of Gates is basically unwatchable.

He is averaging 10 pts and 5 boards a game in a terrible offense. I'd gladly take that.

[xsteve1]

Do you have a link for that? I need a chuckle this morning.

http://azstarnet.com/sports/basketball/college/wildcats/article_5ee079b5-4a0f-59e7-97c7-d7fd290b278e.html

[CinciX12]

How many times do we have to discuss that UC doesn't have the money to buy him out?

[pizza delivery]

I've got to think Miller is referring to Cronin with this comment...

"I came from this area where I was this coach who every time he lost he'd say the team was young," Miller said. "If they won, he would never talk about how young his team was.
Isn't he talking about himself or is that a misprint?

[xsteve1]

Isn't he talking about himself or is that a misprint?

I think the guy who wrote the article misquoted it. There is a video where Sean says this but mentions in the same quote where he was for the last 5 years this guy complained how young his team was after every loss.

[RealDeal]

From Docs column today:
As for Stephenson’s extended vacation, Cronin said he was “struggling to get in the flow. Other guys were playing better. When you’re a guard, you have to make shots. It’s hard to live up to the expectations people set for him.”

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When he signed Stephenson, on the radio with Mo Egger Mick compared him to Jordan. That Jordan. So, Mick, who exactly set these expectations for him? Freaking idiot.

[Xavier]

Isn't he talking about himself or is that a misprint?

This is the exact qoute from the article

"I came from this area where there was this coach who every time he lost he'd say the team was young," Miller said. "If they won, he would never talk about how young his team was.

[xavierj]

This is the exact qoute from the article

"I came from this area where there was this coach who every time he lost he'd say the team was young," Miller said. "If they won, he would never talk about how young his team was.

You seemed to have left out where he said " and that same coach also had a weird fetish for the A-10."

[xu05usmc]

From Docs column today:
As for Stephenson’s extended vacation, Cronin said he was “struggling to get in the flow. Other guys were playing better. When you’re a guard, you have to make shots. It’s hard to live up to the expectations people set for him.”

-----------------------------------------------------------------
When he signed Stephenson, on the radio with Mo Egger Mick compared him to Jordan. That Jordan. So, Mick, who exactly set these expectations for him? Freaking idiot.

As a UC grad student I've been to a lot of UC games, and watched more than my fair share of UC games. I'll admit I've seen more UC games than XU games (but I've seen Withrow and Princeton HS more than either), does that make me a bad fan? Probably.

So here are some thoughts from the comments made throughout this post. A few things are obvious that demonstrate how lousy of a coach Cronin is:

1. The two best players are easily Gates and Stephenson. Probably around half of Gate's shot attempts come from offensive rebounds, or tipped balls. Other than Stephenson not many people can throw an entry pass to the post on that team.

2. The Stephenson comparison to Jordan is somewhat understandable. Stephenson isn't nearly the player Jordan was/is but the way Jordan played early in his career is very similar to way Stephenson plays now. Both tried to 1-on-1 way too much and win games themselves, both also pulled up jumpers too much (and according to Kelly Dwyer so does LeBron James: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/LeBron-James-takes-too-many-jump-shots?urn=nba,221355). Stephenson also shows the competitive fire that young Jordan had on defense, when he gets way to aggressive an picks up stupid fouls (the trash talking is also a lot like Larry Bird). None of that is to say he is as good as any of those guys, just that they have similar styles of playing. (Hell, I could put my head down and run into people and play like Manu Ginobili but that doesn't mean I'm as good as he is.)

3. As far as Gates goes in high school, I saw him play a lot there too. I never thought he was lazy, indifferent, or any of that. Those Withrow's teams strengths were in running fast breaks, and having good guard play (that team's best player was their point guard, Anthony McBride, the son of XU's Walt McBride). It really shouldn't have shocked anyone that Gates wasn't running up and down the court with McBride and Co. What happened there was a few people started saying he was lazy then people would notice a few things here or there and treat aggressive play from Gates as an aberration. Also I don't think UC's tradition of having ultra-aggressive post players (Hicks, Maxiell, Fortson, ect.) really helps Gates shed that mantra either.

4. A lot of this stuff isn't really anything anyone could pick up by looking at box scores, listening to [Coach]'s comments, analyzing stats, it just comes from watching games. FreeDarko put this in an interesting context in the perception v. reality with Kevin Martin and Stephen Curry with a very short recent post which is well worth a read: http://freedarko.blogspot.com/2010/02/place-fit-for-standing.html

That's all I got. Sorry for writing stuff about UC again.

[danaandvictory]

This pissed me off.

http://cnati.com/blogs/paul/2010/02/sean-miller-takes-shot-at-mick-cronin.php

Basically one of the cnati.com guys is saying that Miller's shot at Cronin reflects poorly on him and will damage him with the fraternity of coaches. Well, to hell with that. I'm glad Miller lowered the boom on Gnomus. The last two years all that disgusting moron did was denigrate XU's program, conference, and players with constant backhanded comments in the press. He's still doing it, pissing and moaning about the refs handing XU the game this year. Obviously Chris Mack (and Miller when he was here) can't say anything, but I'm sure Cronin's treacly ingratiating bullshit has pissed him off for years.

Cronin is basically a modern incarnation of Dickens' Uriah Heep. In fact, read this excerpt from David Copperfield and tell me if it reminds you of anyone:


[Uriah's face] was quite as cadaverous as it had looked in the window, though in the grain of it there was that tinge of red which is sometimes to be observed in the skins of red-haired people. It belonged to a red-haired person—a youth of fifteen, as I take it now, but looking much older—whose hair was cropped as close as the closest stubble; who had hardly any eyebrows, and no eyelashes, and eyes of a red-brown, so unsheltered and unshaded, that I remember wondering how he went to sleep.

[GuyFawkes38]

This is great:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1K9z0m20h8&feature=player_embedded#

there always seemed to be a lot of animosity between Cronin and Miller.

[XU-PA]

Caught the second half of UC vs DePaul. Painful to watch, the UC group is a team that could care less about the game. they looked as a group like not a signgle one of them wanted to be on the floor. No spirit, not a single player had any enthusiasm in a game that was close all the way through the half, and the crowd, even worse, sitting on their hands, not even a real cheer from the glaze eyed students. 5/3 center sounded as exciting as standing in line at the bank.

Mick is in charge, and he just stinks at motivating the group. Sign him to another extension, if he earned the first one then he has earned another.

[xubrew]

cronin has yet to field a team at uc that was as good as the 03-04 or the 05-06 teams he had at murray state. does anyone disagree with that?? i'm a little surprised that they continue to underwhelm. they're certainly better than they were when he took over, but they're not as good as i thought they would be.

[GoMuskies]

cronin has yet to field a team at uc that was as good as the 03-04 or the 05-06 teams he had at murray state. does anyone disagree with that?? i'm a little surprised that they continue to underwhelm. they're certainly better than they were when he took over, but they're not as good as i thought they would be.

He also managed to leave the perpetually fantastic Murray State program with a bare cupboard. It took them until this year to fix the mess he left there.

[xavierj]

cronin has yet to field a team at uc that was as good as the 03-04 or the 05-06 teams he had at murray state. does anyone disagree with that?? i'm a little surprised that they continue to underwhelm. they're certainly better than they were when he took over, but they're not as good as i thought they would be.

Are they certainly better? I don't think so. They may be worse this year than they were the last 2 years.

Last year they went 17-14 (8-11) after fading down the stretch in a better Big East conference. They beat G-Town 2x and WVA.

The Year Before they went 13-19 (8-11). But they beat Louisville, Syracuse, Nova, Pitt and WVA. They also faded down the stretch.

This year they will most likely go 16-14 (7-12) in a watered down Big East in my opinion. Only good wins are against Vandy and Maryland back in November and UCONN. They are fading again.

Is that Progress?

[xubrew]

Are they certainly better? I don't think so. They may be worse this year than they were the last 2 years.

Last year they went 17-14 (8-11) after fading down the stretch in a better Big East conference. They beat G-Town 2x and WVA.

The Year Before they went 13-19 (8-11). But they beat Louisville, Syracuse, Nova, Pitt and WVA. They also faded down the stretch.

This year they will most likely go 16-14 (7-12) in a watered down Big East in my opinion. Only good wins are against Vandy and Maryland back in November and UCONN. They are fading again.

Is that Progress?

most definitely. his first year there they were 11-19, won just two big east games, and hadn't recruited any players for about two seasons. it's not so much that they're good now. they're not. it's that they were such bad shape when he got there.