Could Fordham get better?

[Pajama Joe]

Can't get any worse. Sorry if someone has already posted.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4922487

[Porkopolis]

They would have to pay me a whole, whole lot of money to coach there. And I've never coached basketball. They are facing a big time uphill climb.

[rhyno2110]

I'm not sure how much this will help recruiting wise because I sure as hell wouldn't want to play in that gym.

[coasterville95]

Allocating the money is the first step towards a turnaround. Where you spend your money says a lot oabout your values. If Fordham really starts injecting a lot more money into basketball, finds the right guy to coach the team, then perhaps they can get it turned around.

Remember we didn't go right from Schmidt Fieldhouse to Cintas Center. Somebody says in an earlier thread, college basketball is not a "Build it and they will come" industry. Fordham could build an arena that would make most NBA teams envious, but untill they get the right coaches, players, support staff and dedication in place, it won't matter. You've got to have committment to the program from the President to the AD to the coach to the team. Up until yesterday, that was thought to be generally lacking in Fordham's case. Today it is still perceived to be lacking unless hard actions follow up the smoothly worded press release.

However, I do agree that Rose Hill Gym, as nostalgic, vintage, traditional, historic as it may be, is a boat anchor when trying to sell a recruit on a school. (Of course, you have to get the recruit to see beyond recent team performance before they even LOOK at what kind of facilities you have in place. But, let's say they do identify Rose Hill Gym as being a basketball liability, it could still make a great practice facility and they could go the Cincinnati Gardens route and rent a more 'attractive' facility until the program evolves to the point where making the major facilities investment makes sense. Cincinnati Gardens wasn't exactly up there with Madison Square Garden or even Riverfront Coliseum when we moved in there, in fact it was oudmoded and about to become a warehouse until we signed the deal with them, still we made it a very liveable 'apartment' until we could get that big basketball mansion we have now.

Could Fordham get better? Possbily, but I'm not holding my breath...

Side note: I had a bizzaro dream last night, was dreaming we had the A10 Tournament in Cincinnati - and held it at Schmidt Fieldhouse!!! Talk about your strange dreams, I don't think we could even accomodate the fans to watch the Womens A10 tourney at Schmidt anymore. Maybe the A10 Volleyball tourney, maybe.

[XU 87]

One of the first things Xavier did after hiring Staak was to upgrade Schmidt, and more specifically, the locker rooms. For the next 4-5 years, X played a handful of games every year at either the Coliseum or the Gardens. I think by 1985, X was playing all games at the Gardens.

In short, Fordham will have to do something similar. I just don't see them ever being consistently competitive if they play all their games in an 80 year old arena.

[muskiefan82]

I still remember when X had moved to the Gardens, but played Florida International at Schmidt for some reason and absolutely pasted them. FIU was not happy.

[DC Muskie]

I used to be a supporter of Fordham. Years ago.

But really the A-10 made an epic disaster of a decision to add LaSalle and Fordham to the league along with Dayton and Xavier in 1995.

How in the world could you look at the support of the two Ohio schools and think that adding Fordham and LaSalle would be a benefit?

Look at it this way...

Xavier entered the league in 1995 and five years later we opened the Cintas Center.

Fordham entered the league in 1995 and fifteen years later issued a press release stating that the "University's Board of Trustees has unanimously approved a "significant" increase in the budget for the men's basketball program."

That's pretty telling. Am I know going to believe what took years to develop at Xavier is going to take even more years and greater roadblocks for Fordham to get better?

No thanks.

[DC Muskie]

I'm about to go off here. Bear with me. Another rant from DC Muskie.

Seriously, do we really need a freakin press release letting the entire world know that Fordham has NOW decided that they need to increase funds for the basketball team?

They have played in this league for 15 freakin' years. 15! Was today the board the entire board over there fell out of bed, didn't eat their bowl of stupid and figured out, that "Hey, maybe we SHOULD put more nickels into our men's program."

How does something like this come out? Are school's budget processes beginning now?

Why do I get the feeling their increase is a bag of Wether's candy.

[DC Muskie]

I hate the fact Fordham fires me up like this.

Did anyone pay attention to what just happened over there last summer? Anyone? McFly?

Their best player was pretty much FORCED to stay there. WHAT THE HELL IS THAT ABOUT??

Can you imagine if Xavier did that? "Oh no son, I'm sorry. You bought yourself a big bag of shit, and quite frankly you have to hold onto it."

Hey everyone, Fordham has decided to significantly increase their basketball budget!

Are they allowed now to recruit in the Bronx AND Brooklyn?

If I'm the Patriot league I don't even consider them for inclusion. Let them go to America East. Or be independent. MH is guaranteed to be a fan if you do that.

Could this move be a possible proactive move so the A-10 doesn't throw them out? amazing. Now they are going to be proactive.

Pathetic. Embarrassing a Jesuit institution would allow this sort of thing. Fat, drunk, and incredibly incompetent is no way to go through a basketball season, year after year.

[GoMuskies]

Fordham and LaSalle's addition moved the A-10 to 12 teams. Oh, if the A-10 had just stuck with 10 instead of 12 (and added Richmond when VPI left to make it 10 again)!

[Boro Muskie]

[QUOTE=XU 87;175840]One of the first things Xavier did after hiring Staak was to upgrade Schmidt, and more specifically, the locker rooms.

I was a soccer player back during that time and shared the locker room area with the b-ball players. That upgrade did happen but the old adage of putting lipstick on a pig certainly applies... On another note, does anyone from that time remember when they had kegs in the floor bleachers for students who joined some sort of yesterdays version of the Xtreme fans? I think it was predominately for womens games but it might have been for guys also. This was around 1982-83.

[SixFig]

I'm about to go off here. Bear with me. Another rant from DC Muskie.



Nice rant. On the DC Muskie rant scale I'd give it an A-. No inclusion of Jimmie Binnie keeps it from A material.

[xubrew]

i believe one of the things that holding fordham back, and i'm totally serious, is the senior administration. frank mclaughlin has been there for 20+ years. he comes off as a tenured professor that just doesn't care and is simply going through some of the motions (not even all of them) in order to make his presence known just enough. fordham has had one winning season in the past 16 years (and probably more losing seasons than that if you go back further), and half the time i don't think they even reached ten wins. how does that happen?? how does the a.d. just sit idly by as that goes on?? after 20+ years, you'd think he would have made at least one half-way decent hire even if it was just by mistake.

fordham doesn't have the facilities, but they don't even use what they do have. they're a prestigious catholic university in a city with several catholic high schools that field good basketball teams, yet they can't even get ANYONE halfway decent to put together a team that wins more than ten games half the time. it's not that they're not as good as syracuse or pitt or other programs that heavily recruit nyc and have a presence there. it's that they're not even as good as manhattan or iona or the majority of the metro atlantic most of the time. i'm not saying that they should be a great program. i'm just saying that there should be at least a few years where they don't completely suck, and they're not even accomplishing that.

having said that, at least this is a start. we've seen more activity out of the fu admin this past half year than probably the last twenty years. they've gotten rid of one coach, have begun a coaching search, and increased their budget. judging how passive and inactive fordham normally is, the fact that they're actually doing SOMETHING probably is worthy of a press release.

la salle hasn't faired much better, but their inclusion did make some sense at the time. i believe they weren't too far removed from a one-loss season where they finished ranked, earned a #4 seed, and won some ncaa tournament games. they had been to four ncaas in five years, or something like that, so they were about on the same level that siena is currently on. maybe even a little more accomplished. still, since joining the atlantic ten it's been a disaster for them. they were probably better off where they were before.

[coasterville95]

I still remember when X had moved to the Gardens, but played Florida International at Schmidt for some reason and absolutely pasted them. FIU was not happy.

Wasn't that a scheduling conflict with the Gardens? Could have been a post season or NIT game something like that. It's the only game in Schmidt since we made the move to the Gardens.

[xubrew]

take a look at these exerpts from the new york post....


With a contract likely worth between $500,000-600,000 and a total package close to $700,000, coaches who could end up as possible candidates include names like Pete Gillen, Paul Hewitt, Mike Brey, Fran McCaffery, Mike Rice, Tim Welsh, Steve Lappas and -- longest of long shots -- Bob Knight.


Fordham also has looked into playing more games in places like the Meadowlands, and some administrators think that if the Big East splits at some point, the Rams could be included

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/basketball/fordham_ups_funds_for_men_basketball_zuqHxwmJYTvT2 sWyklhlBO


speechless. literally speechless. the fordham admin seems to think that paul hewitt, mike brey, fran mccaffery and bobby knight will be legitimate candidates for the new coaching position.

in addition to that they see themselves as being in a position to join the big east.

this is the athletic administration, mind you....not the fans and not the sportswriters.


i am completely amazed.

i also stand by my previous statement that the administration is part of the problem.

[DART87]

Fordham also has looked into playing more games in places like the Meadowlands, and some administrators think that if the Big East splits at some point, the Rams could be excluded.


It is possible that the administrators are starting to realize a conference shake-up may happen in the forseable future and with their track record thier program may be left out in the cold (much like UD when the mediocre midwest broke-up). Unfortunately for Fordham they have shown absolutely no commitment to improving their revenue sport. They offer absolutely nothing. If there is a major conference re-alignment there are other NYC options better than Fordham.

[GoMuskies]

I don't know 'Brew. It's a nice mix of guys no one would ever want and guys they have no shot in hell of ever getting.

[SixFig]

"Fordham also has looked into playing more games in places like the Meadowlands, and some administrators think that if the America East splits at some point, the Rams could be included"

Fixed!

[golfitup]

The one thing they have going for them is location. New York City has the most high school basketball talent in the country by far.

[PMI]

take a look at these exerpts from the new york post....





http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/basketball/fordham_ups_funds_for_men_basketball_zuqHxwmJYTvT2 sWyklhlBO


speechless. literally speechless. the fordham admin seems to think that paul hewitt, mike brey, fran mccaffery and bobby knight will be legitimate candidates for the new coaching position.

in addition to that they see themselves as being in a position to join the big east.

this is the athletic administration, mind you....not the fans and not the sportswriters.


i am completely amazed.

i also stand by my previous statement that the administration is part of the problem.

Holy Jeez! Fordham administration is trying to rival dayton fans as the most delusional bunch of wackjobs in the A10!

I could teach fluent Chinese to an ape before Fordham could win a conference game in the Big East.

[PMI]

The one thing they have going for them is location. New York City has the most high school basketball talent in the country by far.

But what does that really mean in their case? If being in a town with local talent held true teams like GW and Fordham would contend for tourney runs every year. You have to be able to actually bag that talent.

[golfitup]

Wow, I didn't realize they are 2-22 (0-12). Just wow.

[Masterofreality]

"With a contract likely worth between $500,000-600,000 and a total package close to $700,000, coaches who could end up as possible candidates include names like Pete Gillen, Paul Hewitt, Mike Brey, Fran McCaffery, Mike Rice, Tim Welsh, Steve Lappas and -- longest of long shots -- Bob Knight."

Let's put this in perspective. The New York City area is one of the most expensive locations in the country. The above salaries are like making $350,000 in Cincinnati- which will get you a barely over entry level coach- certainly not Mike Brey or Pete Gillen. Damn! Ratface Lappas can make a return to the A-10- and suck again! That gives me a ton of confidence!!!!

Plus. Wow. F-m is increasing their basketball budget. Again, it's in New York.

While the total amount of money may look impressive, it will get you 30% less than most other places. That alone moves F-m back down to the middle to lower third.

Frank McGlaughlin will find a way to squander any extra money they get anyway. This sounds like a red herring to keep the A-10 from actually taking action to boot their sorry asses out. I clearly remember LaSuck's publicity blitz about how they were going to spend bucks to upgrade Tom Gola's Garage and the basketball program. What did they wind up with? A freshly painted high school gym in the attic of the student center. They do have big black and white pictures of 1950's dead players though.

[rhyno2110]

I've always thought of Lappas as a rat, or a beaver. Not a big fan of his.

[golfitup]

But what does that really mean in their case? If being in a town with local talent held true teams like GW and Fordham would contend for tourney runs every year. You have to be able to actually bag that talent.

Well, they could be located in BFE, New York instead. All I'm saying is this just gives them at least one step in the right direction towards having a decent program.

[coasterville95]

That's just comedy gold right there! Big East? Seriously? And what A10 performance can they point to that would instill such faith? That one fluke win they have against us when Sean Miller was just getting a hang of this coaching thing?

They are 0-12 in the A10 and they think they can field a Big East team???? Wait, did you say Big East, maybe their 1 fan can make the trip to see his team score the upset at Fifth Third Arena. scheduled for March 3 which is well after Mick's annual meltdown.. Big East? As if the NYC area isn't already saturated with Big East teams. Must be their stellar out of conference performance - yeah that big win over Sacred Heart is going to propell them into Big East greatness. Or was it the win against Stony Brook that is going to make the Big East board sit up and take notiice. Guys, this team hasn't gotten to experiene a win since December 8!!!!

Big East, yeah, they will become Big East, not even in their wildest most acid induced dreams.

Yeah, it's all a slick PR campaign until we see some action behind that promise.

[SlimKibbles]

The one thing they have going for them is location. New York City has the most high school basketball talent in the country by far.

How many of those NYC kids actually stay in town to play ball in college? I was always under the impression that they wanted to get out of there. Thought the same thing of kids in Philly. There was a time when I agreed with what you said, but I think players want to go to another school away from their hometown. Doesn't happen all the time obviously. Besides, if a NYC kid wanted to stay in town and play ball, he'd go to St. John's. I really hope Fordham can turn it around since they don't seem to be going anywhere. I'd much rather kick them out though and add Butler to the league.

[xubrew]

The one thing they have going for them is location. New York City has the most high school basketball talent in the country by far.

the problem is this.

yes, they're in new york city. the thing is pitt, syracuse and even duke are not in the new york city area (they really aren't even close) yet they still have a much bigger following within the city than fordham does.

it's not just that fordham isn't the most popular team in new york, it's that fordham most likely isn't even the most popular team at fordham. most of their students/alumni probably passively root for fordham, but identify themselves with either pitt, syracuse, duke (although i guess they're more jersey than nyc) or some other team. that's a problem when a school is trying to allign itself with a big city market. a team in a big city market with a small following is really just a team with a small following and nothing else.

[GoMuskies]

You really think there are a lot of Pitt fans in NYC and at Fordham? That seems strange geographically.

[GoMuskies]

BTW, if NYC is anything like Boston, people in town just flat don't give a damn about college sports. It's all about the pros here.

[xubrew]

You really think there are a lot of Pitt fans in NYC and at Fordham? That seems strange geographically.

i wouldn't say there are a lot, but i think there are substantially more pitt fans than fordham fans. i've never really been to new york for any extended period of time so i can't really say for certain. i just know that pitt recruits that area heavily and when they play in msg they tend to pack the place. it feels like more of a home game for them than it does saint john's....at least on tv. i believe pitt would sell out msg wherre saint john's wouldn't, and fordham DEFINITELY wouldn't.