Bonnies at SLU: You Wont Believe This

[D-West & PO-Z]

So watching the game on channelsurfing and talking to my friend via text who is at the game. So towards the end of the game with like 4mins or so left a player for SLU gets his 5th foul. I didnt see this part so I dont know exactly what happened but he didnt leave the game and the refs didnt ask him to leave the game, there must have been some confusion with how many fouls he had. He then picks up his 6th foul just shortly after which he then has to leave but the refs and coaches had figured out it was actually his 6th foul. So they talk it over for a minute and after the discussion is over the game resumes but the Bonnies subbed in a player who had fouled out minutes earlier. The guy is now in the game playing with 5 fouls. The announcers are stunned. That guy who is playing with 5 fouls ends up hitting a 3 with 25secs left to tie the game. The guy with 5 fouls ties the game! Luckily Mitchell hits a game winner with 1.5 secs left so SLU wins. Were the refs allowing a player with 5 fouls on the Bonnies to come back in because SLU had a guy be allowed 6 fouls? Or were the refs clueless and the Bonnies slipped one buy them? I would think this wouldnt be allowed but a Bills player was pointing out the Bonnies guy so it isnt like no one knew. Has anyone ever seen this? Can anyone shed any light on what may have been going on? Do two wrongs make a right? Was this guys allowed to come in with 5 fouls and the refs knowing he had 5?

[joebba]

So watching the game on channelsurfing and talking to my friend via text who is at the game. So towards the end of the game with like 4mins or so left a player for SLU gets his 5th foul. I didnt see this part so I dont know exactly what happened but he didnt leave the game and the refs didnt ask him to leave the game, there must have been some confusion with how many fouls he had. He then picks up his 6th foul just shortly after which he then has to leave but the refs and coaches had figured out it was actually his 6th foul. So they talk it over for a minute and after the discussion is over the game resumes but the Bonnies subbed in a player who had fouled out minutes earlier. The guy is now in the game playing with 5 fouls. The announcers are stunned. That guy who is playing with 5 fouls ends up hitting a 3 with 25secs left to tie the game. The guy with 5 fouls ties the game! Luckily Mitchell hits a game winner with 1.5 secs left so SLU wins. Were the refs allowing a player with 5 fouls on the Bonnies to come back in because SLU had a guy be allowed 6 fouls? Or were the refs clueless and the Bonnies slipped one buy them? I would think this wouldnt be allowed b
ut a Bills player was pointing out the Bonnies guy so it isnt like no one knew. Has anyone ever seen this? Can anyone shed any light on what may have been going on? Do two wrongs make a right? Was this guys allowed to come in with 5 fouls and the refs knowing he had 5?

That is seriously messed up. That is way worse that the XU Butler game. I cannot see how they could do anything that would seem fair in the end. I would think some technical fouls would be in order but the refs screwed up royally. There have certainly been a lot of crazy reffing issues this year but they have mostly been related to clock issues.

No clue on this one.

[D-West & PO-Z]

That is seriously messed up. That is way worse that the XU Butler game. I cannot see how they could do anything that would seem fair in the end. I would think some technical fouls would be in order but the refs screwed up royally. There have certainly been a lot of crazy reffing issues this year but they have mostly been related to clock issues.

No clue on this one.

I am getting some info from my buddy who was there. He said Salechich (SLU player) got his 5th foul they announced it over the loud speaker in the arena and the teams went over to huddle and get a new guy in, SLU sent a guy to the acorers table but when the huddles broke the SLU guy was still in the line up. A minute later after not scoring he got his 6th foul and had to go. Then when he got his 6th Bonnies sent their fouled out player to the scorers table, my buddy thought it was a joke. He came in and the game resumed. He was in the rest of the game (about 3 mins) and scored 5 points including the 3 to tie it with 25 secs left.

Word is there may have been some confusion because earlier in the game these two guys got a double tech and that caused some confusion on personal fouls. That is what the guys on the after show said, not sure if that is the word from the refs. The Bonnies player had definitely been announced fouled out though and the refs sent him out of the game only for him to later come back in. These refs didnt seem to have a clue.

[UnCaged]

How does something like that not lead SportsCenter...or at least PTI? If that had happened in the Butler game, I would have stormed the court (alone probably) and attacked a scorekeeper and at least one game official. Unreal.

[GoMuskies]

A-10 refs are awesome.

[boozehound]

This is incredible. How must those refs feel today? (assuming that it was an oversight and not a tit-for-tat kind of thing) I would have to think it was just an oversight, because I can't imagine that they would rectify the situation by letting another guy play with 5 fouls, even if it is the most fair outcome.

I would think you would just T-up the team that played with the fouled-out guy, unless it is the officials responsibility to monitor that and the team isn't responsible. I can't imagine that would be the case though.

[BandAid]

Ridiculous

[STL_XUfan]

Shouldn't Bonaventure be able to protest this? Did they need to file it at the time, or can they go back and do it now.

Wasn't there a case like three years ago where an NBA player fouled out and kept playing. I believe a protest was filed and they had to replay the last 3 minutes of the game. It would be interesting to see if a similar situation could happen here. Half-time show during the first game in Atlantic City?


EDIT: Found the article
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/4325/the-rarest-of-nba-treats-a-game-protest-is-granted

[MADXSTER]

I would think that would be the responsiblity of the score keeper(ref) not the refs on the floor.

That's messed up.

[thefortyniner]

Why are the refs for A-10 games so bad?

http://gmine.blogspot.com/2010/02/did-referee-really-ask-that.html

[wkrq59]

Among a few observations:
a)There is no mechanism for a game in NCAA basketball to be appealed and the result overturned.
b)The former ref's statement about a "lower tier conference" is BS and ridiculous. It should make no difference what conference, teams or divisions, or genders are involved. Ever.
c)The SLU situation if so bizarre it should be noted in the NCAA official publication as how not to do. The Charlotte situation is equally ridiculous but proves the officiating in NCAA games for the past five or ten years has been absolutely sub par in line with what the young men and women who play these games and make all kinds of money for their schools have a right to expect.
d)Today's officials generally "work too damned many games a week," says Bob Knight, are in many cases either too old or inexperienced or too out of shape to be trying to keep up with today's game conditions: e.g. bigger faster and stronger athletes of both sexes.
e)If what Pete Gillen said about referees earning $1,500 a game is true, there ought to be some professional standards not governed by "good ole boys rules."
f)Finally, refs should be held acountable. For example, John Cahill should have been forced to submit to an interview by a pool reporter at the Xavier v. OSU tournament game to explain why he did not call an intentional foul when both of his subordinate refs had their hands crossed and about to make the call. These people should be held accountable. And until they are, with very definite rules as to what can be asked, the crummy officiating will continue.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[D-West & PO-Z]

Shouldn't Bonaventure be able to protest this? Did they need to file it at the time, or can they go back and do it now.

Wasn't there a case like three years ago where an NBA player fouled out and kept playing. I believe a protest was filed and they had to replay the last 3 minutes of the game. It would be interesting to see if a similar situation could happen here. Half-time show during the first game in Atlantic City?


EDIT: Found the article
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/4325/the-rarest-of-nba-treats-a-game-protest-is-granted

The Bonnies were the biggest beneficiaries of the mess up. Why would they protest? The SLU guy played for a min extra and scored zero points. Their guy played an extra 3 mins and scored 5 points including a 3 to tie the game with 25secs left. Why would they protest?

[STL_XUfan]

The Bonnies were the biggest beneficiaries of the mess up. Why would they protest? The SLU guy played for a min extra and scored zero points. Their guy played an extra 3 mins and scored 5 points including a 3 to tie the game with 25secs left. Why would they protest?

Well the hope is that they decide to replay the game from the point the illegal player entered the game for SLU. Sure they benefited, but they didn't win, so might as well protest and take a second bite at the apple.

I am sure they would prefer the W over stats

[D-West & PO-Z]

Well the hope is that they decide to replay the game from the point the illegal player entered the game for SLU. Sure they benefited, but they didn't win, so might as well protest and take a second bite at the apple.

I am sure they would prefer the W over stats

How in the world would they win a protest about a SLU player playing with 5 fouls, when one of their players also played with 5 for a longer period of time and scored crucial points?

[STL_XUfan]

How in the world would they win a protest about a SLU player playing with 5 fouls, when one of their players also played with 5 for a longer period of time and scored crucial points?

Because it was an error by the official on a rule (not a judgment call). It doesn't matter if they took the benefit of the error also.

Here is the equivalent of what occurred. In the 5th inning of a baseball game team A says we think we can play with 10 players. The ump allows it. Team B protests this point saying that it is against the rules and the umpire can't make the decision to allow 10 players. However, since team A plays with ten, team B sends out 10. League hears the protest and decides the ump was wrong on the rule and therefore the game will resume from the point of the protest.

Bonaventure might as well protest and hope that the A-10 decides the officials screwed up at Point X (3 minutes left right?) and say we will resume the game at that point with those stats and that score. They still might lose, but now they have a second chance to win (just like SLU would do if that shot doesn't fall).

[D-West & PO-Z]

Because it was an error by the official on a rule (not a judgment call). It doesn't matter if they took the benefit of the error also.

Here is the equivalent of what occurred. In the 5th inning of a baseball game team A says we think we can play with 10 players. The ump allows it. Team B protests this point saying that it is against the rules and the umpire can't make the decision to allow 10 players. However, since team A plays with ten, team B sends out 10. League hears the protest and decides the ump was wrong on the rule and therefore the game will resume from the point of the protest.

Bonaventure might as well protest and hope that the A-10 decides the officials screwed up at Point X (3 minutes left right?) and say we will resume the game at that point with those stats and that score. They still might lose, but now they have a second chance to win (just like SLU would do if that shot doesn't fall).

We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I think the A10 would laugh at St. Bonaventure if they protested this game.

Not to mention has there ever been a time where that was allowed in college basketball. I saw the NBA article (where the Heat were wronged big time). Xavier protesting the Butler game would be more sensible in terms of a mistaking happening at point X and going back and replaying the game.

[XUOWNSUC]

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/slu/story/FE201A313F8B702E862576C1000C7C73?OpenDocument

Here is the St. Louis Post-Dispatch story about what really happened on Wednesday night.

[thefortyniner]

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/slu/story/FE201A313F8B702E862576C1000C7C73?OpenDocument

Here is the St. Louis Post-Dispatch story about what really happened on Wednesday night.

Sounds like Bona is the one that got screwed, after all. If Hall left the game after unofficially fouling out and missed around a minute of action... how many points may he have scored in that time period? Not having your second leading scorer (who scored the final 5 points of the game) for a full minute when he should be out there could be a game-changer in a two-point game.

It looks like the refs actually got this one right :eek: if the scorekeeper's books are official and both were incorrect.

[Masterofreality]

Guess who one of the refs was?

DJ Carstensen- Mr. Clock himself.

He's having one helluva year.

[XU-PA]

Just a thought or two about the situation.
Most importantly, once the officials leave the floor, the game is final, no protest will change the result or allow some kind of do-over. The officials job at the end of the game is the check with the official book and make sure that book shows the correct result, then they leave and what is done is done.
Notifying the officials of the 5 foul situation is the official scorekeepers job, not the announcer (he has no official role whatsoever) and the official scorekeeper is also the one resonsible for notifying oofficials of an illegal substitution.
The team of officials in this case are immune, they should have been notified by the scorers table of both situations. If in fact they were there could have been some T's passed along to the bench, that would be fore the floor officials to determine once notified of the problem. So look to the video tape, find out which guy on the table is the "official" and he is to blame. Obviously had a few too many local brews before the game, or at half???