How is gonzaga 10th in the AP??

[brownlavender]

They really have only 1 good win and that was at home against Wisconsin. Lost to Wake at home and to Mich St and Duke both away. It seems that gonzaga has always been the exception much more then the rule when it comes to respect for a so called mid major. They kind of remind me how the media has treated Obama and how they can't say anything bad about him or it would be politcally incorrect. I feel the media feels they need to have at least one mid major in the mix so they feel that they don't leave all of us out.

[PMI]

Gonzaga is always overrated. Every year. Always. It's as sure as the sunrise.

[joebba]

They play in a substandard league compared to the A-10 too.

[xudash]

It's worse than that: I think a lot of it has to do with the media and how it sometimes hops onto some bandwagon in an effort to make a story out of something.

Specifically, while I was channel surfing one night, I heard an ESPN announcer refer to Gonzaga as "America's Team." I thought that was the dumbest thing I had heard on television in a while.

But it is consistent with my belief that ESPN might be driving that perception to some degree since they are backfilling programming (the late stuff due to the Pacific time zone) with some Gonzaga games in an effort to prop them up and make them more interesting.

[xavierj]

Gonzaga does get really good support from their fan base. They pack the house in NBA arena's, something Xavier really does not do.

Gonzaga also is on the West Coast and they are about the only thing that gets attention out there. They really have no other team to compete with in that area. Xavier on the other hand has Memphis & Butler right now and Xavier also plays in a much stronger conference.

It is a little weird though that as good as UCLA has been the last five years, Gonzaga still gets more play in the media.

[waggy]

It is a little weird though that as good as UCLA has been the last five years, Gonzaga still gets more play in the media.

Which speaks right to Dash' point. ESPN dominates sports reporting, but it's not a neutral observer covering all properties equally.

[pizza delivery]

In Seattle Gonzaga plays second fiddle to UW, without question, fwiw.

[gladdenguy]

In Seattle Gonzaga plays second fiddle to UW, without question, fwiw.

Maybe in Seattle, but nationally Gonzaga basketball gets way more attention than both Washington's basketball and football program combined.

[GoMuskies]

It is a little weird though that as good as UCLA has been the last five years, Gonzaga still gets more play in the media.

ESPN doesn't cover Pac-10 games.

[Masterofreality]

Don't get me started again.......

[GuyFawkes38]

ugghhh, yeah.

The good thing is that the Selection Committee doesn't overrate Gonzaga like the press and coaches do.

[MuskieFN]

It would be nice to reach their level some day.

/sarcasm/

[PM Thor]

RPI 36. SOS 80. They lost to South Dakota State.

There is no way they should be ranked where they are. I swear I think the rankings are losing more and more credibility every year. Maybe it's me, but this year it seems the overall rankings are completely out of whack.

I HATE dayton.

[joebba]

RPI 36. SOS 80. They lost to South Dakota State.

There is no way they should be ranked where they are. I swear I think the rankings are losing more and more credibility every year. Maybe it's me, but this year it seems the overall rankings are completely out of whack.

I HATE dayton.

There is definite truth in what you say. I generally like Gary Parrish's poll on cbssportsline.com. I also like how he calls out pollsters who obviously do not do their homework. I do not always fully agree with his choices but he generally backs up his choices with good reasons.

[DoubleD86]

RPI 36. SOS 80. They lost to South Dakota State.

There is no way they should be ranked where they are. I swear I think the rankings are losing more and more credibility every year. Maybe it's me, but this year it seems the overall rankings are completely out of whack.

I HATE dayton.

Are you talking about Gonzaga? Gonzaga has a RPI of 22 and SOS of 43. They only have losses @MSU, to Wake, and to Duke.

While their only really good win is Wisconsin they also have solid wins against UC, Washington St., Oklahoma, Illinois, Portland and St. Mary's (All top 100 RPIs with UC and St. Marys both top 50 RPIs).

Parrish has them ranked at #13 in his Top 25 (and one) and personally I can't really argue with it too much. Could it be a little high? Maybe, but I don't have much of a problem with it.

Edit: They also haven't even played South Dakota St.

[SkyWalker]

Gonzaga is 10th because of West Coast bias. Who else west of the Rockies can even be considered for the Top 25.

[chico]

They play in a substandard league compared to the A-10 too.

Are you telling me Gonzaga wouldn't win the A-10?

[PM Thor]

Are you talking about Gonzaga? Gonzaga has a RPI of 22 and SOS of 43. They only have losses @MSU, to Wake, and to Duke.

While their only really good win is Wisconsin they also have solid wins against UC, Washington St., Oklahoma, Illinois, Portland and St. Mary's (All top 100 RPIs with UC and St. Marys both top 50 RPIs).

Parrish has them ranked at #13 in his Top 25 (and one) and personally I can't really argue with it too much. Could it be a little high? Maybe, but I don't have much of a problem with it.

Edit: They also haven't even played South Dakota St.

Yeah, my bad, I was looking at the wrong line on realtime. Gonzaga still doesn't deserve that ranking though.

I HATE dayton.

[Pluto]

They made the same pact with the devil as Haiti

[joebba]

Are you telling me Gonzaga wouldn't win the A-10?

They might, but their noses would be bloodied by a few more losses than they are used to.

[SixFig]

That conference is a joke, might as well be the MAAC.

Saint Louis, LaSalle, Charlotte would easily get 10-12 wins in that conference

[xubrew]

is anyone going to make a case for another team to be ranked higher, or just about how gonzaga shouldn't be so high??


They really have only 1 good win and that was at home against Wisconsin. Lost to Wake at home and to Mich St and Duke both away.

other than temple, no one behind them has done substantially more than that. pittsburgh has probably had a much better overall season, but the rankings operate in a very knee-jerk fashion, and since pitt has lost two in a row they're down somewhat. gonzaga, on the other hand, has won eight in a row. that's just how the polls have always worked. butler was ranked in the top ten last year, and i don't think they beat anyone of note at any point other than xavier.

[PMI]

is anyone going to make a case for another team to be ranked higher, or just about how gonzaga shouldn't be so high??



other than temple, no one behind them has done substantially more than that. pittsburgh has probably had a much better overall season, but the rankings operate in a very knee-jerk fashion, and since pitt has lost two in a row they're down somewhat. gonzaga, on the other hand, has won eight in a row. that's just how the polls have always worked. butler was ranked in the top ten last year, and i don't think they beat anyone of note at any point other than xavier.

We get how the rankings work brew. The point is, they start the season ranked higher than they end almost every year. I know they started around where we were this year but they move a lot faster than most based solely on this respect factor. Sure, once they get into this portion of the calendar they buckle down and win a lot of games, but against what competition? They're a very solid program but they are extremely overrated in general, and it's easy for Xavier fans to see this because our respect:success ratio is a hell of a lot lower than theirs when unbiased logic would suggest that ours has been the slightly better program during the modern era. It's apparent you like to be the X fan who shies away from homerism and take it upon yourself to show us silly fans the world through non-Xavier goggles, I get that. But give me a reason that Gonzaga is not overrated, other than the fact that the media put them there at the right time, they've been winning while others have been losing, and the system is playing as usual. Why, if the system is contingent on them being positioned in the first place and getting as much of an opportunity to MOVE UP beating shitty teams as other teams have of MOVING DOWN for losing to good teams, are they not overrated? Are they entitled to those advantages for any specific reason?

None of it really matters, because as Guy, who I always agree with, said, the committee doesn't fall for the same fluff as the coaches and media do. It's just very annoying from my perspective as a fan who not only has had to defend Xavier's credibility living on the east coast, but have also had to watch this fake Gonzaga hoard all the attention for doing nothing that Xavier hasn't done under more difficult circumstances. Screw that media darling west coast normal kid amongst all special olympians.

[BandAid]

If they don't lose there is no reason for them to drop in the rankings. The national media had lots of questions about the undefeated St. Joe's team, but they didn't lose for the longest time. So there was no reason for them to fall in the polls.

I think that St. Joe's team would mop the floor with this Gonzaga team, but that's irrelevant.

[D-West & PO-Z]

is anyone going to make a case for another team to be ranked higher, or just about how gonzaga shouldn't be so high??




West Virginia
Georgetown
Purdue
Kansas St.
Temple
Pitt - Even with their 2 losses in a row

I think those 6 should definitely be ahead of Gonzaga.

[xubrew]

West Virginia
Georgetown
Purdue
Kansas St.
Temple
Pitt - Even with their 2 losses in a row

I think those 6 should definitely be ahead of Gonzaga.

those teams are ranked ahead of gonzaga, except for temple and pitt who i already mentioned.


We get how the rankings work brew. The point is, they start the season ranked higher than they end almost every year. I know they started around where we were this year but they move a lot faster than most based solely on this respect factor

they won the maui invitational. last year xavier began the season unranked and moved up equally as quickly after winning down in puerto rico. we actually got as high as #7 in the ap poll before the end of december.


But give me a reason that Gonzaga is not overrated, other than the fact that the media put them there at the right time, they've been winning while others have been losing, and the system is playing as usual.

okay, point to where i said gonzaga was not overrated. i didn't say that they were. i did point out that no one was making a case for any of the teams ranked behind them, but that's not the same as saying one can't be made. i said that their ranking is very consistent with how the polls work. i'm just saying that they work that way for everyone, not just gonzaga. i even said that i thought temple and pitt should be higher. you're putting words in my mouth and reacting to an implication that i didn't even make. i think you're doing it unintentionally, but you're doing it nonetheless.


It's apparent you like to be the X fan who shies away from homerism and take it upon yourself to show us silly fans the world through non-Xavier goggles

i have a different point of view. i see myself as not suffering from gonzaga envy, that's all. there are an unusually high number of xavier fans that do have it. the same people that are whining about how gonzaga is overrated said nothing about memphis last year. memphis was a team xavier actually beat. memphis played a weaker overall schedule than this year's gonzaga team, had far fewer impressive wins, and rose way higher in the polls (#3 if i remember correctly). had that been gonzaga, people would have been screaming bloody murder. since it wasn't gonzaga, no one cared to notice. this year byu is ranked higher than gonzaga and they haven't beaten anyone else who's ranked and really only have one or two semi-impressive wins. however, no one is griping about them. if those who suffer from gonzaga-envy didn't suffer from it, they'd notice that the polls work that way for everyone.

if a team starts off ranked and keeps winning, they'll stay ranked and move up faster.

if a team starts off unranked and beats teams that are ranked and/or beats some name brand teams in a preseason tournament, they'll get ranked and move up faster (this is typically what gonzaga does).

if a team starts off unranked and doesn't play or beat anyone of note, it will take the voters longer to notice them, but eventually they will (northern iowa, uab, etc). if those teams keep winning, they'll move up too.

teams that lose move down, even if they're losing to other really good teams.

there is nothing special about gonzaga. if anything, it's merely a circumstantial advantage in terms of rankings because their schedule is structured to where they play and beat some notable teams early, get noticed, and then move up by default (if you will) down the stretch.

[American X]

Don't you get it? Gonzaga has had a bunch of white guys with funny hair. White guys with funny hair. Think about that.

I said all along Justin Doellman should have rocked the Larry Bird mullet and mustache. He could have been All-American.

http://ewpopwatch.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/ferrellklum_new.jpg

White guys with funny hair. Let that sink in.

[danaandvictory]

Don't you get it? Gonzaga has had a bunch of white guys with funny hair. White guys with funny hair. Think about that.

I think it's actually three things:

1. White guys
2. Funny hair
3. Attractive style of play

Wisconsin, after all, has a bunch of white dudes with buzz cuts but isn't a national darling, primarily because every game they play ends up 50-44.

[Masterofreality]

We get how the rankings work brew. The point is, they start the season ranked higher than they end almost every year. I know they started around where we were this year but they move a lot faster than most based solely on this respect factor. Sure, once they get into this portion of the calendar they buckle down and win a lot of games, but against what competition? They're a very solid program but they are extremely overrated in general, and it's easy for Xavier fans to see this because our respect:success ratio is a hell of a lot lower than theirs when unbiased logic would suggest that ours has been the slightly better program during the modern era. It's apparent you like to be the X fan who shies away from homerism and take it upon yourself to show us silly fans the world through non-Xavier goggles, I get that. But give me a reason that Gonzaga is not overrated, other than the fact that the media put them there at the right time, they've been winning while others have been losing, and the system is playing as usual. Why, if the system is contingent on them being positioned in the first place and getting as much of an opportunity to MOVE UP beating shitty teams as other teams have of MOVING DOWN for losing to good teams, are they not overrated? Are they entitled to those advantages for any specific reason?

None of it really matters, because as Guy, who I always agree with, said, the committee doesn't fall for the same fluff as the coaches and media do. It's just very annoying from my perspective as a fan who not only has had to defend Xavier's credibility living on the east coast, but have also had to watch this fake Gonzaga hoard all the attention for doing nothing that Xavier hasn't done under more difficult circumstances. Screw that media darling west coast normal kid amongst all special olympians.

Thank you, PMI.


I think it's actually three things:

1. White guys
2. Funny hair
3. Attractive style of play

Wisconsin, after all, has a bunch of white dudes with buzz cuts but isn't a national darling, primarily because every game they play ends up 50-44.

Cheese: #4 Cute Name.

[xubrew]

The point is, they start the season ranked higher than they end almost every year

five minutes of research shows that since the 2002-2003 season, gonzaga has started the season ranked higher than they finished it a grand total of once. that was in 2005-2006 when they started off #7th and finished #10th. to be fair, in 2006-2007 they began the season unranked and finished unranked, but finished with fewer overall votes, so i guess you can count that if you want to. they actually began the season unranked more times than not. again, you're basing your opinion on something that simply isn't true. i don't think you or anyone else is doing it on purpuse. i just think you and others have gonzaga envy, and as a result you perceive things to be true that actually are not.

you can look at the preseason and postseason polls here and see for yourself...

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/rankings?seasonYear=2010

and before you say i'm a gonzaga blowhard, i'm not. i'm merely puzzled as to why so many xavier fans whine so much about gonzaga. i'm also not saying anything that isn't true. i'm not even making an argument. i'm just pointing out factual inaccuracies people always give when whining about gonzaga.

[joebba]

Don't you get it? Gonzaga has had a bunch of white guys with funny hair. White guys with funny hair. Think about that.

I said all along Justin Doellman should have rocked the Larry Bird mullet and mustache. He could have been All-American.

http://ewpopwatch.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/ferrellklum_new.jpg

White guys with funny hair. Let that sink in.

Funny you say that Larry Bird comment. I had often times felt Doellman was Larry Bird like in that he had a fairly good all around game, and if he could put it all together on one night you could see something remarkable basketball wise. He, of course, was no in Larry Birds league, but at times you could make the comparison in watching his playing style.

[danaandvictory]

Cheese: #4 Cute Name.

"Badgers" is pretty cute. Until you're in a fight to the death with one.

[waggy]

"Badgers" is pretty cute. Until you're in a fight to the death with one.

Same with Beavers.

[danaandvictory]

Same with Beavers.

Don't overlook the mild-mannered Gopher.

[waggy]

Don't overlook the mild-mannered Gopher. (gopher://gopher.)

I know some gophers are golden, but you haven't really lived until you've had a bronzed beaver.

[PMI]

okay, point to where i said gonzaga was not overrated. i didn't say that they were. i did point out that no one was making a case for any of the teams ranked behind them, but that's not the same as saying one can't be made. i said that their ranking is very consistent with how the polls work. i'm just saying that they work that way for everyone, not just gonzaga. i even said that i thought temple and pitt should be higher. you're putting words in my mouth and reacting to an implication that i didn't even make. i think you're doing it unintentionally, but you're doing it nonetheless.



i have a different point of view. i see myself as not suffering from gonzaga envy, that's all. there are an unusually high number of xavier fans that do have it. the same people that are whining about how gonzaga is overrated said nothing about memphis last year. memphis was a team xavier actually beat. memphis played a weaker overall schedule than this year's gonzaga team, had far fewer impressive wins, and rose way higher in the polls (#3 if i remember correctly). had that been gonzaga, people would have been screaming bloody murder. since it wasn't gonzaga, no one cared to notice. this year byu is ranked higher than gonzaga and they haven't beaten anyone else who's ranked and really only have one or two semi-impressive wins. however, no one is griping about them. if those who suffer from gonzaga-envy didn't suffer from it, they'd notice that the polls work that way for everyone.

if a team starts off ranked and keeps winning, they'll stay ranked and move up faster.

if a team starts off unranked and beats teams that are ranked and/or beats some name brand teams in a preseason tournament, they'll get ranked and move up faster (this is typically what gonzaga does).

if a team starts off unranked and doesn't play or beat anyone of note, it will take the voters longer to notice them, but eventually they will (northern iowa, uab, etc). if those teams keep winning, they'll move up too.

teams that lose move down, even if they're losing to other really good teams.

there is nothing special about gonzaga. if anything, it's merely a circumstantial advantage in terms of rankings because their schedule is structured to where they play and beat some notable teams early, get noticed, and then move up by default (if you will) down the stretch.

Well first brew, while you may not have said that Gonzaga was overrated, please don't try and act like I'm the clumsy one for taking your post as an implication that they're not. When you play devil's advocate than you put yourself on the other other side. If I did react to an implication and you weren't actually trying to make one, that's on you for not specifying.

But that's beside the point. I think your point on Gonzaga envy is interesting and not completely inaccurate. Here's the difference though (and I'm not implying you said otherwise): The "envy" is NOT over Gonzaga's success, but rather over the credit they get. Not getting the respect you deserve may not be a big deal to everyone. In professional sports it doesn't bother me all that much. But when it comes to Xavier, I feel much differently. We are a program that's had to climb up a steep mountain to get to to the point we're at on the national radar, and we aren't nearly where I think we should be. I believe that exposure, respect, and whatever else you want to toss in there is extremely important to a program trying to establish itself among the nation's elite. We know what we are, but a lot of people do not. If everyone did, I think our program would be even wealthier and stronger.

The reason that the fake Gonzaga is the subject of your theory and not Memphis or Butler or someone else is because of the amount of respect they get relative to what they actually do. As someone who has observed them for a long time it is my strong opinion that they are almost always regarded as a better team and a stronger program than they really are, yet they get treated very favorably. I think this is what makes me and other X fans resent the whole thing, and quite frankly, it's not even their fault. I don't want to imply that I dislike Gonzaga University or it's players (sans Morrison) but I truly hate the undeserved advantage that I believe they have over us on the national radar. In terms of postseason success, NBA success of former players, 20 win seasons, conference affiliation, and several other things, Xavier has not trailed Gonzaga in the modern era, yet the casual fan would likely think they were considerably behind. There is a perception that has been formed that is especially clear to me living far from both programs that Gonzaga is better than Xavier. Xavier is better than Gonzaga, and that is the issue I have.

Now I agree that there is nothing special about Gonzaga and that they have a structural advantage. In fact, that was one of the arguments of my last post.

02-03, 03-04, 05-06, 06-07, 07-08, and 08-09 are all seasons where Gonzaga ended the season in a worse ranking or tied (and I'm counting votes to go past just 25 teams) than they started. It didn't take me long to look that up on ESPN.com and since it doesn't go any further back, I started at 02-03. And that's WITH the conference schedule that allows them to climb up late in the season. So since you aren't saying Gonzaga isn't overrated I won't ask for any reasons why they aren't, but don't tell me I'm basing my opinion on something that isn't true. I have the internet too so you aren't going to get me by BSing.

[rhyno2110]

With all of this harping on Gonzaga, lets see how they handle Santa Clara at 11 tonight.

[BandAid]

With all of this harping on Gonzaga, lets see how they handle Santa Clara at 11 tonight.

The Zags busting out a black jersey...

whatever sells I guess.

[BandAid]

A side note on Gonzaga (and I know I will probably catch flak for this):

Their ascension to this point really has been impressive. We all know how frustrating and difficult it has been to build a legitimate program in the A-10, but imagine the additional odds against it in the WCC. The Zags maintaining their level in the WCC would probably be on par with Butler maintaining their success for another five years in the Horizon.

I guess what I'm asking is: Are you telling me La Salle wouldn't win the WCC?

[PMI]

A side note on Gonzaga (and I know I will probably catch flak for this):

Their ascension to this point really has been impressive. We all know how frustrating and difficult it has been to build a legitimate program in the A-10, but imagine the additional odds against it in the WCC. The Zags maintaining their level in the WCC would probably be on par with Butler maintaining their success for another five years in the Horizon.

I guess what I'm asking is: Are you telling me La Salle wouldn't win the WCC?

You won't catch any flak from me. I agree that Gonzaga is a great program and has built itself wonderfully. They do a great job with what they can control. It's not their fault they're overrated and anyone would gladly take that.

[Masterofreality]

Can anyone tell me exactly what a "Zag" is?

The opposite of "Zig"?

At least Zavier has a legitimate nickname and mascot.

[BandAid]

Can anyone tell me exactly what a "Zag" is?

The opposite of "Zig"?

At least Zavier has a legitimate nickname and mascot.

I know you were probably being rhetorical, but o well. Here is my serious answer:

Zag is an abbreviation of Gonzaga. Gonzaga is named after St. Alloysius Gonzaga, a student of St. Robert Bellarmine. St. Alloysius died before he was ordained a priest (which isn't surprising considering the length of Jesuit formation). He is a patron of all students, and Jesuit students in particular.

...sorry.

[SixFig]

They're a great school and a great team.

I hope we kick their ass from here to Adam Morrison's mustache next year.

[xubrew]

02-03, 03-04, 05-06, 06-07, 07-08, and 08-09 are all seasons where Gonzaga ended the season in a worse ranking or tied (and I'm counting votes to go past just 25 teams) than they started. It didn't take me long to look that up on ESPN.com and since it doesn't go any further back, I started at 02-03. And that's WITH the conference schedule that allows them to climb up late in the season. So since you aren't saying Gonzaga isn't overrated I won't ask for any reasons why they aren't, but don't tell me I'm basing my opinion on something that isn't true. I have the internet too so you aren't going to get me by BSing.

i honestly wasn't trying to bs you. you probably don't believe that, but i wasn't. after all, i did provide the link. i was looking at the preseason ap poll, and the final regular season ap poll, and i wasn't counting the years they started and finished unranked.

if you're going by the coaches poll, then yes they did end up lower or equal in those years once the ncaa tournament was over. however, the difference was hardly aggregious in any of those cases.


Well first brew, while you may not have said that Gonzaga was overrated, please don't try and act like I'm the clumsy one for taking your post as an implication that they're not. When you play devil's advocate than you put yourself on the other other side. If I did react to an implication and you weren't actually trying to make one, that's on you for not specifying.


i wasn't trying to play devil's advocate. i wasn't even trying to argue that i thought gonzaga was hands down a top ten team. if you go back in reread the post i actually mentioned that i thought two teams were having better seasons. i was merely pointing out that gonzaga's situation is due to circumstance and not undo bias. THAT'S ALL!!! i guess i should have pointed out that i wasn't implying anything else because i should have known that gonzaga-bashers would have automatically assumed that anyone who isn't bashing them must be praising them.

here's my thing. when xavier fans whine about gonzaga's ranking and/or praise, they sound like paul bunyan with napoleon syndrome. seriously. i don't see why so many people feel slighted whenever someoone praises gonzaga.

for instance, the last time we went to the elite eight, davidson was there as well. they were very much the media darling. xavier fans didn't seem irritated in the least. however, had gonzaga made the elite eight instead and gotten half the media attention that davidson got, people on here would have been screaming bloody murder. that's puzzling to me. seriously, how come it only irritates people when they see gonzaga getting "undo" praise?? other teams get it too, yet no one complains about them. davidson continued to receive praise all through the next season even though they weren't an ncaa tournament caliber team. had that been gonzaga, this place would have been looney tunes.

last year xavier beat memphis and appeared to have better wins throughout the season. yet memphis was ranked higher and seemed to get way more media attention than xavier did. no one seemed to mind. had that been gonzaga it would have driven several people on this board to the brink of insanity.


don't want to imply that I dislike Gonzaga University or it's players (sans Morrison) but I truly hate the undeserved advantage that I believe they have over us on the national radar

maybe they do. i can't say that i've really experienced it, but then again i probably don't pay all that much attention to or care all that much about what you would call the national radar, so it could just be that i don't notice it. i also live far away from both programs, and people where i live seem every bit as familiar with xavier as they do gonzaga...at least that's the impression i get. i will say that i think gonzaga does do an excellent job of getting noticed. they always play big teams early on television, and they always seem to play well against them. that impression seems to stick with them throughout the year. they began the season unranked and weren't even picked to win the wcc iirc. within two weeks, they had taken michigan state to the wall (who was #2 at the time) and won the maui invitational, which is a major early season tournament. they've been high on the radar ever since. i guess the difference between me and you is that i don't feel slighted whenever gonzaga is on the radar, nor do i feel that the praise is all that undo. had northern iowa done the same thing, i think they'd be ranked just as high and getting just as much attention. more, maybe.

[PMI]

here's my thing. when xavier fans whine about gonzaga's ranking and/or praise, they sound like paul bunyan with napoleon syndrome. seriously. i don't see why so many people feel slighted whenever someoone praises gonzaga.

Again, I don't feel slighted when Gonzaga receives praise nor did I argue that they don't deserve any. As I said before, the reason Xavier fans notice Gonzaga rather than the others is because of how similar our programs have been over the last decade plus in terms of success. They've been pretty close to even with Xavier holding the edge, yet they have been more of the media darling.


i will say that i think gonzaga does do an excellent job of getting noticed. they always play big teams early on television, and they always seem to play well against them. that impression seems to stick with them throughout the year. they began the season unranked and weren't even picked to win the wcc iirc. within two weeks, they had taken michigan state to the wall (who was #2 at the time) and won the maui invitational, which is a major early season tournament. they've been high on the radar ever since. i guess the difference between me and you is that i don't feel slighted whenever gonzaga is on the radar, nor do i feel that the praise is all that undo. had northern iowa done the same thing, i think they'd be ranked just as high and getting just as much attention. more, maybe.

They do do an excellent job of getting noticed, but so do we. We play big name teams and make our mark in preseason tournaments and on the road against big boys too. Again brew, I don't feel slighted that Gonzaga is on the radar. That really isn't what I've been saying. I would love it if more non-BCS school were on the national radar and considered top-tier programs, but like it or not, the media won't allow there to be too many and they decided a long time ago that Gonzaga was going to be the poster child.

This is a true story. Tony Kornheiser once made a comparison to Boise St as the Gonzaga of college football, saying they were the best mid-major for a long period of time that could play with all the big boys despite lacking some of the advantages they have. I told him that with all do respect that they were more like the Xavier of college football, and did so more tongue in cheek than anything, but he responded by saying that once Xavier could get its program to the level Gonzaga is at where everyone in the country knew them, their players names, etc. then you could make the comparison. That really boiled my blood and I obviously started dropping the numbers, giving proof that if anything, Xavier's program has been better and has sustained high success for a longer period of time, to which he gave a response with no actual evidence and just basically said that he's been in the media forever and if you ask around Gonzaga is considered better.

This apparently wouldn't have made you upset at all and you probably wouldn't have cared less, but I was pissed. Legitimately pissed. But it proved to me that it's not just Xavier-envy talking when X fans complain that Gonzaga has gotten the better end of the stick despite our program being a bit stronger. He has a TV show on ESPN that airs every weekday. He also gets time on Sportscenter and does a radio show here too. His opinions get heard by a lot of people and apparently he has plenty of other connections in the business that feel the same way he does, and they have shows and columns. My entire point is that there is a false perception. There is an illusion that one program is better than the other and it bothers me because I do think that stuff matters, maybe only a tiny bit, but it does. As a Xavier fan I feel a sense of obligation to killing the perception that we are a mid-major, a stepping stone, a cut below the elite, etc. Even if any of that were true I would still fight it because I want to see continued growth.

It's not that Gonzaga isn't a great program, but I think they're sitting in our seat as far as popular belief is concerned, and I want them out. I hope we beat them by a margin so embarrassing next year that it costs them all of their potential recruits. I hope it creates a rivalry that we go on to dominate. I also hope that the next time Adam Morrison walks outside that one of the dirtiest crows in LA poops on his head. And I hope that in the very near future that casual observers of American sports will consider Xavier the top non-BCS program rather than Gonzaga.

That is all for now, I have to go catch the real Gonzaga take on DeMatha in an epic battle between two of the best high school basketball programs in the nation. Go Eagles!

[SixFig]

Only one "Mid-major" has a player highlight article in ESPN the Magazine.

Suck that Gonzaga

[Masterofreality]

I know you were probably being rhetorical, but o well. Here is my serious answer:

Zag is an abbreviation of Gonzaga. Gonzaga is named after St. Alloysius Gonzaga, a student of St. Robert Bellarmine. St. Alloysius died before he was ordained a priest (which isn't surprising considering the length of Jesuit formation). He is a patron of all students, and Jesuit students in particular.

...sorry.

So what is their nickname? I thought it was Bulldogs. Guess that isn't "cute" enough for the national media. So.....now Gonzaga places "Zags" on their uniforms. Not "Gonzaga" or "Bulldogs" but "Zags". How "cute" of them.

I'm going to start a campaign to change the spelling of Xavier to "Zavier" then we'll be even cuter. We'll also have a monopoly on schools with the first letter of "Z" playing NCAA basketball. Now I guess we're too confused with all of those other "Xaviers".

"Ladies and Gentlemen" Youuuuuuuuuuuuuur Zavier Zagnuteers".

What a great tie in with a candy bar for added marketing, since that, apparently is what it's all about!!! 25 years of sustained success hasn't done it for "Xavier" so let's just try something else.

[joebba]

They're a great school and a great team.

I hope we kick their ass from here to Adam Morrison's mustache next year.

Adam Morrison has/had a mustache?

[Jesuit4Life]

Gonzaga and San Francisco going to overtime.

http://www.atdhe.net/10448/watch-gonzaga-vs-san-francisco

[rhyno2110]

Thanks for the update Jesuit. I forgot Gonzaga played tonight.

[Jesuit4Life]

USF holds on to win 81-77, and ends the Zags' 22 game WCC win streak.

[xavbball]

lol @ Gonzaga.

[SixFig]

How far will they drop?

THAT is the true measure of national respect. UNC stayed in the top 25 for two weeks after they should have been out, based on pure reputation.

[Masterofreality]

Yep, right on cue.

As soon as they get one of their annual overblown rankings, they lose. Last year about this time they absolutely got pole-axed by Memphis at home and this year they lose to mediocre SF.

No one in the media probably paid attention though. It wouldn't make the eastern papers and some of the voters have already mailed in the vote.

[X-band '01]

How much did Xavier fall in the polls last year after losing at Charlotte on the road? I think it's asking a bit much to slaughter Gonzaga in the polls because of one stinker on the road.

[PMI]

UNC was overrated for longer than they should have been in and UConn has been the epitome of overrated this season. Those schools have also won multiple national championships in the past dozen years though so I can't get to distraught about that. I think you can also make the case for Butler earlier in the year when they were playing good teams but not coming up with the wins, but they've since righted the ship. I expect Gonzaga to fall as far as an entire spot next week.

[Masterofreality]

How much did Xavier fall in the polls last year after losing at Charlotte on the road? I think it's asking a bit much to slaughter Gonzaga in the polls because of one stinker on the road.

Actually, Xavier didn't drop a bit. Stayed at 16. But...

Charlotte was a helluva lot better than San Francisco. Last year, despite having a tough year, Charlotte still managed to beat Mississippi State on the road. San Francisco this year was 7-14 and had lost to Montana State at home who is barely .500 from some nondescript Bison and Plains Conference.

One thing to lose to legitimate teams that actually play high major schedules and actually win some of those games. Something else altogether to lose to teams that are just an iota above Division 2.

Edit: Gone-zaga is now 31 in the RPI rating vs. a #7 poll ranking. There is no other discrepancy larger than that. Their joke league is rated 14 in RPI. What a fraud.

[American X]

I agree with PMI's lengthy post above.

Based on my study of philosophy at Xavier, the solution is clear:

Go To The Final Four

Short of that, if Xavier makes the Sweet Sixteen this year it will match Gonzaga's three-year run which raised them to national prominence. Not to mention the prior success of Xavier.

Plus, the X logo is badass. All the kids should want to wear it.

[GoMuskies]

Xavier has lost to plenty of sh***y A-10 teams on the road. It happens now and again. Gonzaga is pretty damned good this year.

[PMI]

Gone-zaga is now 31 in the RPI rating vs. a #7 poll ranking. There is no other discrepancy larger than that. Their joke league is rated 14 in RPI. What a fraud.

Simply laughable, and there may be no better evidence to support the point I've been trying to make. They are 17-4 with 351 votes. We are 15-6 with 15 votes. They have 3 wins against the top 50. We have 4 wins against the top 50. They have a very bad loss against a team with a 200+ RPI. We have no bad losses. They are 31 in the RPI and 83 in the SOS. We are 3 in the RPI and 12 in the SOS. Yet they are the 13th best team in America and we are the 32nd. I'm sorry, but there's just no way you can convince me that their program doesn't get a lot of undeserved credit while we don't get as much as we should. Quite frankly, it happens almost every damn year.

[xavbball]

The fact that Gonzaga is ranked #13 in the coaches poll after losing to San Francisco is a fraud. Sure, we lost to a few sh**ty teams on the road but in terms of rpi, the loss to San Francisco was arguably the biggest upset (in rpi terms) this decade. The A10 has some bad teams but to compare an A10 road loss to an WCC road loss is delusional.

[BBC 08]

The fact that Gonzaga is ranked #13 in the coaches poll after losing to San Francisco is a fraud. Sure, we lost to a few sh**ty teams on the road but in terms of rpi, the loss to San Francisco was arguably the biggest upset (in rpi terms) this decade. The A10 has some bad teams but to compare an A10 road loss to an WCC road loss is delusional.

My guess is a lot of voters submitted ballots before Gonzaga lost. Hopefully it will be corrected next week.

[PMI]

My guess is a lot of voters submitted ballots before Gonzaga lost. Hopefully it will be corrected next week.

But they still dropped 5 spots, so while some may have done that, certainly not everyone did.

[xubrew]

if things keep going like they are, i think xavier will catch up to gonzaga before the end, if not in the rankings then at least in the seedings. i'm just really getting the feeling that xu has hit their stride, and will continue to hit it the rest of the way.

we're just 2-4 on the road, and 3-6 away from home, but the next three games are all winnable road games, especially considering how we've looked lately. 5-4 is much better than 2-4, so we can turn things around in a hurry.

i always feel that if you're good enough, then you'll be ranked higher soon enough....and right now i feel xavier is definitely good enough. our losses are all close losses to good teams, many of which are better now than we perceived them to be at the time. i think that's another reason we're not in the forefront as much as gonzaga or some other teams that are in the rankings. if we keep playing the way we have been though, that will take care of itself.

[PMI]

if things keep going like they are, i think xavier will catch up to gonzaga before the end, if not in the rankings then at least in the seedings. i'm just really getting the feeling that xu has hit their stride, and will continue to hit it the rest of the way.

we're just 2-4 on the road, and 3-6 away from home, but the next three games are all winnable road games, especially considering how we've looked lately. 5-4 is much better than 2-4, so we can turn things around in a hurry.

i always feel that if you're good enough, then you'll be ranked higher soon enough....and right now i feel xavier is definitely good enough. our losses are all close losses to good teams, many of which are better now than we perceived them to be at the time. i think that's another reason we're not in the forefront as much as gonzaga or some other teams that are in the rankings. if we keep playing the way we have been though, that will take care of itself.

This we agree on. As a matter of fact, I believe Lunardi has us only one seed behind Gonzaga. I think we're a 7 and they're a 6, but I can't remember if I'm getting that straight. Being ranked would be nice, but I'm in higher seed mode right now.

[xubrew]

This we agree on. As a matter of fact, I believe Lunardi has us only one seed behind Gonzaga. I think we're a 7 and they're a 6, but I can't remember if I'm getting that straight. Being ranked would be nice, but I'm in higher seed mode right now.

i never really disagreed with you. i wasn't saying that i thought gonzaga was as good as their ranking. i was just saying that i really didn't care. the polls behave in such a way that favors a team like that, and gonzaga isn't the only example of a team that collects some early wins against notable teams and then shoots way up into the rankings almost by default as the season progresses. i also don't understand why it only seems to be gonzaga that bothers people on this site. it's as if people are mad at gonzaga and not at the poll itself for how it typically behaves. i know it's a different sport, but in college football the polls behave the same way. the most aggregious example in the history of sports rankings, probably ever, was hawai'i's 2007 football team. at least gonzaga has done SOMETHING to warrant being ranked in the teens. hawaii wasn't even good that year, but benefited by the fact that the most important factor in any human poll seems to be how recently a team lost. had so many teams that were ranked around gonzaga not also lost, they would have probably fallen further this past week.