Martha Coakley

[GoMuskies]

Here is a very revealing story about the character of the woman I will be doing my part to keep from taking Ted Kennedy's seat in the Senate.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704281204575003341640657862.html

[Snipe]

What a horrible candidate for office.

Soldier on brother!

[GoMuskies]

All signs point to Coakley going down. Fingers crossed.

[vee4xu]

All signs point to Coakley going down. Fingers crossed.

I am sure this is good news for somebody in some fashion.

[GuyFawkes38]

The way to follow this tonight is via twitter.

This twitter list is particularly good:

http://twitter.com/marcambinder/masen

[Pete Delkus]

"OK Martha, You F'ed up this situation beyond repair, so I want you got out a cry 'voter fraud' so we can challenge the results long enough to vote on Healthcare.

[XU 87]

With 70% of the vote in, Brown is up by 7. I think it's safe to say he's going to win. Who would have thought that a republican would win Kennedy's seat.

And after Coakley sent out a brochure claiming that Brown wanted to deny rape victims medical treatment, if I were him, I'd tell her to go to hell if she calls him to concede.

But if this election doesn't send a message to congress and Obama that the country doesn't like their far left agenda, nothing will.

[bourbonman]

Massachusetts saves the nation again! They've continued another revolution!

[XU 87]

AP is declaring Brown the winner. Brown is the first republican to hold this seat in 6 decades. I wonder how Robert Gibbs will spin this democratic catrastrophe tomorrow.

This election, and the fact that he is going to win by around 7 points, is nothing short of astonishing.

Other than Connecticut, is any democratic senate seat safe?

[joebba]

AP is declaring Brown the winner. Brown is the first republican to hold this seat in 6 decades. I wonder how Robert Gibbs will spin this democratic catrastrophe tomorrow.

This election, and the fact that he is going to win by around 7 points, is nothing short of astonishing.

Other than Connecticut, is any democratic senate seat safe?

This is quite big news coming from one of the strongholds of the left coast. "Yes we can."

[chico]

Obama won this state by 26 points one year ago. Unbelievable.

Healthcare "reform" is dead.

[XU 87]

Healthcare "reform" is dead.

Don't be so sure. Did you see what Pelosi said today?

[chico]

Don't be so sure. Did you see what Pelosi said today?

Didn't see it, but I'll be surprised if it gets passed, unless it's a very watered down version. I think those in the house who are up for re-election in the fall have to be nervous.

[kmcrawfo]

This election shows that there is still hope for the country and that perhaps we won't evolve into a pathetic nanny-state.

Brown ran on an anti-Obama, anti-Obamacare plan, pure conservative campaign. I know this article below takes this thread in a different direction, but I think it points out what people are beginning to realize what the reform Obama and his fellow Dems really will do to this country.

This election as well as the ones last November are a statement. We are a conservative country. Many people just don't realize how conservative they are until a blatently liberal agenda is shoved down their throat. Then it becomes apparrent how despicable and doomed to failure the liberal process is. Jimmy Carter proved this and now Carter the 2nd, Obama and his followers are proving it as well.

Here is the read below, if you are interested.
__________________________________________________ ________________________

Why Doctors Are Abandoning Medicare
By C.L. Gray - FOXNews.com


Physicians will not be bullied into bankruptcy. Our system needs reform, but what's being hammered out in Washington is not the answer.

Two weeks ago the Mayo Clinic shocked the nation when it closed the doors of one of its Arizona clinics to patients on Medicare. Just this past June President Obama himself praised Mayo as a model of medical efficiency noting that Mayo gives “the highest quality care at costs well below the national norm.” If Mayo feels compelled to walk away from this government-run program, others will surely follow. The nation must understand why. Doctors are leaving Medicare for two reasons: one obvious, the other more concealed.

The first is simple—the math:

1) For the past decade Medicare consistently paid physicians 20% less than traditional insurance companies for identical service.

2) On January 1, 2010 Washington made hidden cuts to Medicare by altering its billing codes.

3) Medicare will cut physician reimbursement by another 21% on March 1. The CBO said this cut must take place if the Senate healthcare bill was to “reduced the deficit.”

4) Even more, Congress pledged to cut Medicare by yet another $500 billion. Again, the CBO said this additional cut must take place if the Senate healthcare bill was to “reduced the deficit.” Many physicians were operating at a loss even before this series of massive cuts. In 2008, Mayo Clinic posted an $840 million loss in caring for Medicare patients. No businesses can survive when patient care expenses exceed revenue.

The second is more ominous—Washington’s increasingly abusive posture toward physicians. President Obama reflected this attitude last summer. On national television, he stated as fact a surgeon is paid between $30,000 and $50,000 for amputating a patient’s foot.

In reality, a surgeon is paid between $740 and $1,140 to perform this unfortunate, but often life-saving procedure. This reimbursement must cover a pre-operative evaluation the day of surgery, the surgery, and follow-up for 90 days after surgery—not to mention malpractice insurance, salaries for clinic nurses, and clinic overhead. It is frightening to think our president is so wildly misinformed even as he stands on the cusp of overhauling American health care. But it gets worse.

Given massive federal deficits, Washington now faces increasing pressure to cut Medicare spending. One way to do this is to intimidate physicians into under-billing. To do this Washington intends to spend tax payer dollars to ramp up physician audits using Recovery Audit Contractors (RAC audits) to randomly investigate private physician’s Medicare billing.

A physician group at my hospital recently experienced an AdvanceMed audit, an earlier version of the RAC. For a year Medicare auditors made their practice a living hell, making them question if it was worth caring for Medicare patients at all.

An independent reviewer (who was paid a percentage of the audit) reviewed 86 patient records and “found” the physicians had “fraudulently billed” Medicare for $351,820. After spending a year fighting the allegations, eventually, eventually all charges were dropped. The physician group was vindicated but only after spending almost $100,000 defending themselves. The independent reviewers were clearly after money, not justice.

For example, one patient the auditor alleged the group had “fraudulently” billed for was a man undergoing a chemical stress test. The allegation was the patient should have undergone a cheaper traditional treadmill stress test. The difficulty with this accusation was this man was a double amputee—he had no legs. This made a traditional treadmill test impossible. The auditors clearly were not trained health care professionals—they were bounty hunters. (It is worth noting the investigators are given legal immunity from a countersuit for conducting a “fraudulent investigation.”)

This story is not unique. To reduce Medicare’s budget shortfall physicians are being subjected to these abusive investigations nationwide. If medicine increasingly falls under government control, why should the best and the brightest of our youth give up 15 years of their life to go into medicine?

The relationship between the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services and the average working physician has become abusive. Mayo is but the first to make the leap to less government control by closing its doors to some patients on Medicare.

Washington, slow down and listen; reconsider what you are about to do. Physicians cannot be bullied into bankruptcy. Our system needs reform, but this is not it. If you continue on your present course, sadly, it will be our seniors that pay the price.

C. L. Gray, M.D. is president of Physicians for Reform.

[XU 87]

Didn't see it, but I'll be surprised if it gets passed, unless it's a very watered down version. I think those in the house who are up for re-election in the fall have to be nervous.

Ask Steve Dreihaus. Chabot is beating him by 17 points according to a recent poll. I wonder if he now regrets voting for cap and trade, the "stimulus" package, and the health care bill.

Note to Steve: you can't support a far left agenda and expect a fairly moderate/conservative district to re-elect you. But based on his voting, he apparently doesn't care what his district thinks.

[picknroll]

This victory by a Republican in the bluest of blue states is a referendum on Washington, Obama and his Progressive wing of the government ( yes the Wilson-nite Progressive wing not the Democratic wing). This victory is not due to Coakley's late complacency like many leftist talking heads are saying. It has been brewing for over three months. Let it be said loudly and clearly...the second revolution has started, and those Democrats and Republicans who have fallen, or were about to fall, on their sword for Obama will recover and will move swiftly to get their parties back and get things reasonably and logically done in a bipartisan way for the American people.

Now, Muskies, follow this up and go kick Temple's arse into next week!

[picknroll]

Ask Steve Dreihaus. Chabot is beating him by 17 points according to a recent poll. I wonder if he now regrets voting for cap and trade, the "stimulus" package, and the health care bill.

Note to Steve: you can't support a far left agenda and expect a fairly moderate/conservative district to re-elect you. But based on his voting, he apparently doesn't care what his district thinks.

This reflects the Progessive Obama agenda that so many Democrats and some Republicans are blindly following. It's a slow death march. Progressives do not care about ANYBODY or ANYTHING other than themselves and their socialist agenda. In their sick minds, the means justify the ends.

[XU 87]

those Democrats and Republicans who have fallen, or were about to fall, on their sword for Obama will recover and will move swiftly to get their parties back and get things reasonably and logically done in a bipartisan way for the American people.



Who are these republicans who have fallen on the sword for Obama? I'm pretty sure that not one republican voted for cap and trade. I think there was one 1, maybe 2 who voted for the stimulus package. And there was 1 who voted for the health care bill, and that was only after the bill passed in the house (and he's the guy from a liberal New Orleans district who defeated the guy who had all the cash in his freezer).

[XU 87]

[/B]

This reflects the Progessive Obama agenda that so many Democrats and some Republicans are blindly following.

I ask again, who are these republicans?

And let me note that I am a conservative who is very disappointed with the republican party, locally, statewide and nationally, this past decade. That being said, it's not republicans who are driving this left wing train wreck.

[vee4xu]

AP is declaring Brown the winner. Brown is the first republican to hold this seat in 6 decades. I wonder how Robert Gibbs will spin this democratic catrastrophe tomorrow.

This election, and the fact that he is going to win by around 7 points, is nothing short of astonishing.

Other than Connecticut, is any democratic senate seat safe?

Wow we have Republicans are holding their seats and Democrats going down. Crazy night in MA.

[joebba]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_massachusetts_senate

I have no interest in sugarcoating what happened in Massachusetts," said Sen. Robert Menendez, the head of the Senate Democrats' campaign committee. "There is a lot of anxiety in the country right now. Americans are understandably impatient."

[picknroll]

I believe I said "who have fallen or are about to fall" on their swords. I believe the most visible of all Progressive Republicans is John McCain, who campaigned to tax health benefits and grant amnesty to illegals. Believe me, just because there were no Senate Republicans who voted for healthcare reform and only one House member who did, there are other Progressive-thinking Republicans out there.

[XU 87]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_massachusetts_senate

I have no interest in sugarcoating what happened in Massachusetts," said Sen. Robert Menendez, the head of the Senate Democrats' campaign committee. "There is a lot of anxiety in the country right now. Americans are understandably impatient."

I found that quote interesting as well, since he did nothing but sugar coat. The country is "impatient"? What does that mean? No, the country isn't impatient. The country, including a left leaning state like Massachusetts, doesn't like this far left agenda in Washington.

[picknroll]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_massachusetts_senate

I have no interest in sugarcoating what happened in Massachusetts," said Sen. Robert Menendez, the head of the Senate Democrats' campaign committee. "There is a lot of anxiety in the country right now. Americans are understandably impatient."

And we see, with our own eyes, the flaming bags of sh!t on our front porches!

[kmcrawfo]

Dow +115.78 +1.09% 10,725.43
Nasdaq +32.41 +1.42% 2,320.40
S&P +14.20 +1.25% 1,150.23

Thoughts are that the market might go on a tear now that Cap & Tax, Healthcare, and other liberal spending/handouts by be derailed.

[joebba]

The news channels are going bonkers over the news. It is just one day shy of
"Broke" Obama's inauguration.

[GuyFawkes38]

completely shocked.

The most accomplished democratic senator pushes for health care reform his entire life. Finally, with the disaster of the Bush years, the democratic party gains momentum to enact his reform. But Kennedy passes away months before health care reform gets through congress. Although popular beyond belief, the bluest state in the country decides to end his lifelong dream.

You can't make that up. unbelievable.

[GoMuskies]

Although popular beyond belief, the bluest state in the country decides to end his lifelong dream.


Because the candidate the Dems put up to replace him was a complete disaster.

[GuyFawkes38]

Because the candidate the Dems put up to replace him was a complete disaster.

That's of course true. But who would have thought that a month ago.

I thought the Dems could have put up any idiot as a candidate, as long as they supported the dying wishes of their 2nd great political figure.

[pizza delivery]

Physicians will not be bullied into bankruptcy. Our system needs reform, but what's being hammered out in Washington is not the answer.

Republicans: "I don't know how to solve health care, but I'm not voting for THAT!"

Annoying.

The party of "No" marches on.

[LadyMuskie]

That's of course true. But who would have thought that a month ago.

I thought the Dems could have put up any idiot as a candidate, as long as they supported the dying wishes of their 2nd great political figure.

I think that might have been true 20 years ago, or even 10, but I think people are really tired of having the DNC and the GOP shove unworthy, vapid, self-entitled candidates in our faces. I know I'm tired of being insulted by the people they "choose", and have found it more and more difficult to find a worthy candidate to vote for in almost every election.

Coakley didn't even seem to like the State of Masschusetts or its residents, regardless of what her politics were. At every turn, she sabotaged her own campaign. I'm not sure she could've won the seat if she had been running unopposed.

[Strange Brew]

The party of "No" marches on.

And the Statists stumble again.

The "Party of No" is for:

Tort Reform
Portability
Health Savings Accounts

That's real reform.

Yep, pizza you're soooo right, no ideas at all. Don't quit your day job. By the way, try to get here in under 30 minutes. :)

[pizza delivery]

"People are tired of the way things work in Washington DC."

That is what you hear from everybody. Everybody loses in Washington on issues they care about. During those losses, they shout all about how the system is screwed up.

Then, when 59 senators and a buried institution of a man is just short enough to stop legislation that you aren't for, you are elated.

The reason I bring this up is that the general groan of Americans about the political process is growing. So called "Independants" are responsible for the victory in MA and they are also among the loudest complainers about the current system.

Is this discontent a signal of change to come? Is the legislative process really broken? What changes need to be made to government? How? The onus is on "Independants" (many of whom are closeted Bush Republicans) to paint their own picture of this 'revolution'. What does their world look like in 5, 10, 20, 50 , 100 years?

Right now, none of that is even on the table, and I don't know that it ever has been. "The future" is really absent from their ethos. To me, this spawns from the philosphical viewpoint that 1) the world is broken, dangerous, and unaccomodating. 2) individual's cannot effect change that matters enough to "fix" the world.

The future quickly becomes an ominous formality, the fear of which is eventually easily laughed off with requisite sardonic humor and perhaps some booze. All of this is better described as "getting old".

[pizza delivery]

By the way, try to get here in under 30 minutes. :)

Not sure what that means.

8 years of Bush wasn't enough to even sniff a health care agenda. I'm totally convinced this isn't about reform for conservatives, it's just about shutting down the left and dusting up afterward. Then, back inside the bubble.

[MADXSTER]

Pizza, I think you hit the nail on the head.

A growing (into) majority of people in the US dispise both the Republican and Democratic agendas and the BS that goes with it. No one in Washington cares about the country as much as they care about getting re-elected. The 'I'll vote for this if you vote for that', and both this and that are a bunch of crap.

This country is going to fall on its face or major reform on how the government runs itself will take place. Right now it doesn't matter who is in office. There needs to be fundamental change. Our constitution may have evolved but the running of our government is outdated.

A new group of founding fathers is whats needed for the sake of the country. Individuals from all walks, who are impowered to radically change/improve our system of governement. To take out the loopholes and the selfish myopic agendas. This would take years to develop but the individuals most opposed to such thoughts are the ones who live in Washington, republicans and democrats.

Will this happen...hell no. Because the people in Washington are not concerned about the people of the US. Every minute they waste being concerned about the people in the US, they are wasting in not fulfilling their personal agendas.

[Strange Brew]

Not sure what that means.

8 years of Bush wasn't enough to even sniff a health care agenda. I'm totally convinced this isn't about reform for conservatives, it's just about shutting down the left and dusting up afterward. Then, back inside the bubble.

Yawn, what a surprise a Bush reference. If all that is accomplished is shutting down the statists than it is a success for the country.

Please explain in detail the particulars of the healthcare bill that you feel are beneficial. I explained what I would like to see as "Reform". I was not a huge fan of Bush. I wish the Dems would've put up viable opposition. Gore is a moron and Kerry is a weakling. You didn't give me a good option.

[pizza delivery]

Pizza, I think you hit the nail on the head.

A growing (into) majority of people in the US dispise both the Republican and Democratic agendas and the BS that goes with it. No one in Washington cares about the country as much as they care about getting re-elected. The 'I'll vote for this if you vote for that', and both this and that are a bunch of crap.

This country is going to fall on its face or major reform on how the government runs itself will take place. Right now it doesn't matter who is in office. There needs to be fundamental change. Our constitution may have evolved but the running of our government is outdated.

A new group of founding fathers is whats needed for the sake of the country. Individuals from all walks, who are impowered to radically change/improve our system of governement. To take out the loopholes and the selfish myopic agendas. This would take years to develop but the individuals most opposed to such thoughts are the ones who live in Washington, republicans and democrats.

Will this happen...hell no. Because the people in Washington are not concerned about the people of the US. Every minute they waste being concerned about the people in the US, they are wasting in not fulfilling their personal agendas.

In a way, Cincinnatians have complained about the same phenomenon for years. I don't know how to fix it. Strong leadership is what the Dems thought they had.

"Nothing gets done." Well, some things do get done. Stadiums, highways, bla, bla, bla.

Should we be complaining at all? Is it broken? Things happen, but not fast enough?

Obama is a leader that brought on an onslaught of legislation, still too slow for his liking, and the whole thing flew into a safeguarding sand trap of legislation. This is good for conservatives right? I mean, the system's ostensibly working!

Maybe it is the two party system getting bowled by a third that will prove to be the fix.

[MADXSTER]

Seriously,

Republicans or Democrats. Is anyone else taken back by some of the idiots who get elected. Some who absolutely do not know what they are talking about and are complete morons. I'm not talking about the individuals in which you may not like because of their opinions, because you know that at least they are thought out. I'm talking about individuals which probably wouldn't get hire at your place of business unless they new someone.

On numerous occasions I've seen clips that have made me say to myself, 'you have got to be kidding me. How in the hell did that person ever get elected.'

[MADXSTER]

Face it.

Obama was elected because the people of the US desparately want change. They didn't want what the Republicans had to offer. So the Dems get in and guess what. The people of the US don't want that either.

The Republicans and the Democrats don't get what the people of the US are really saying. The want Change in How the government is being run. Both parties keep shoving crap, and I do mean crap, down our throats. The people of the US don't like horse manure from one party as much as they don't like cow manure from the other party. It's all the same. It's crap.

How the governement is run IS the biggest issue facing the American people.

[Snipe]

Tonight is change that I can believe in.

YES WE CAN!

[MADXSTER]

Tonight is change that I can believe in.

YES WE CAN!

No offense but it just sounds like more crap to me. hmmm, should I have a liking of Cow or Horse manure tonight.

[Snipe]

No offense but it just sounds like more crap to me. hmmm, should I have a liking of Cow or Horse manure tonight.

That is because it was crap in the first place, but at least it gave us a neophyte in the White House and Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid running the country.

YES WE CAN!

I wonder why women don't faint when he speaks anymore?

[waggy]

Yeah, Scott Brown is ass too, just probably less of an ass than Coakley. I think the best we can hope for is constant stalemate, where either side can do the least damage. Death by paralysis.

[GuyFawkes38]

No offense but it just sounds like more crap to me. hmmm, should I have a liking of Cow or Horse manure tonight.

I'm pretty apathetic about politics.

yet, tonight I got sort of rush.

Really, the people of Massachusetts were told they had no other choice but to vote for Coakley. It's the right, moral, responsible thing to do. It's a blue state. The country is on the eve of passing Health Care Reform. You must respect the wishes of Kennedy.

Yet, the people of Massachusetts voted for Brown. It's an insane, bold move that's not "more of the same".

The most liberal state in the country just voted down Health Care Reform. It sounds too absurd to be true.

[MADXSTER]

The people of the United States of America want change. Not Republican to Democrat. Not Democrat to Republican. That right there alone is simply more of the same.

[pizza delivery]

Yawn, what a surprise a Bush reference. If all that is accomplished is shutting down the statists than it is a success for the country.

that's my point. Because this attitude is what pervades, it won't matter what happens in 2010 or 2012 if conservatives take over. Their work is done.



Please explain in detail the particulars of the healthcare bill that you feel are beneficial. I explained what I would like to see as "Reform". I was not a huge fan of Bush. I wish the Dems would've put up viable opposition. Gore is a moron and Kerry is a weakling. You didn't give me a good option.

Well, the original bill has been eviscerated. The conception of so much of this bill was contingent on things like the public option and other money saving efforts. But, what doesn't get out to the average person is that there is still:

-pre-existing conditions will be admitted (took my 26 year old wife 6 months and several expensive tests to get coverage for very mild anemia)
-guaranteed coverage - or, making insurance companies honor their end of the bargain
-an atmosphere where the buyer is educated about the options from different companies
-relief for depressed lower and middle class people

These are real results for real people. It is also a clear picture of what life will be like.
Tort reform, portability, and hsa's (didn't like bush, eh?) are theoretical actions, de-regulatory, and impossible to quantify their effect.

I love these free market solutions that tell the 12$/hr college grad with 2 kids to both buy as much shit as you can, pay your debts, and still save for unknown medical expenses, which everybody knows can drop like a (50k dollar) bomb with one wrong turn of the screw.

But I have to ask, aren't Dems just statists by nature? Don't tell me you would've voted for any of them. Did you vote for Obama?

[Snipe]

Looks like Obamacare is going to wither on the vine.

[GuyFawkes38]

Pizza, I think you make some very valid points (I consider myself to be a liberaltarian....free markets and a plush safety net).

But it still seems to me like something as big and complex as health care reform should happen on the state level. I applaud a state like Massachusetts, which has provided a safety net for all. And by all indications, health care reform on the state level is much less messy and wasteful.

If federal health care reform fails, hopefully that will spur states to take up the cause.

[GuyFawkes38]

Ugghhhh, insomnia has struck.

just another thought about this entire thing. It really seems to me like Obama promised too much during his 2008 campaign. The expectations for his presidency were too high. One year later, people are angry.

Of course, by promising so much, Obama was able to run an effective campaign against Clinton and Mccain. But he's now experiencing a backlash because of that.

I hope Obama's presidency follows the arc of Clinton's. Yes, Obama might not be FDR. Obama might not reform health care. But he can still be an effective president and go into the history books as a success.

[XU 87]

Republicans: "I don't know how to solve health care, but I'm not voting for THAT!"

Annoying.

The party of "No" marches on.

Actually, conservatives may not know how to "solve" health care, but they have ideas that would make things much better. As long as health care is essentially free, people will not make any decisions to keep costs down. Why should they when someone else is paying for it? My firm just went to HSA's. And when you have some skin in the game, you take a look at how you spend your health care dollars.

As for the party of "No", I think that's a good thing. To me, that means the republicans don't want government meddling in everything.

[chico]

I think both parties have lost their way. It seemed that at one time both sides could at least work together to get important things done. Anymore, though, it's the partisan agenda or nothing.

This huge, sweeping health care reform is not what people want. Democrats have to recognize that. Those dems who are blaming the loss on Coakley are fooling themselves. Politicians need to listen to the people to see what is important to them and then get to work getting it done.

Politicians are like my kids - you give them money to buy lunch but instead they buy junk because it's what they want, not what they're supposed to do.

I have to imagine that somewhere, Hillary Clinton is cackling her ass off. Healthcare reform doomed her 15 years ago and if Obama's not careful it's going to doom him as well.

[Xman95]

just another thought about this entire thing. It really seems to me like Obama lied too much during his 2008 campaign. The expectations for his presidency were too high. One year later, people are angry.

Fixed your post for you.:)

[bobbiemcgee]

Dow +115.78 +1.09% 10,725.43
Nasdaq +32.41 +1.42% 2,320.40
S&P +14.20 +1.25% 1,150.23

Thoughts are that the market might go on a tear now that Cap & Tax, Healthcare, and other liberal spending/handouts by be derailed.

So much for that theory....down 200

[bobbiemcgee]

Main Entry: in·ep·ti·tude
Pronunciation: \(ˌ)i-ˈnep-tə-ˌtüd, -ˌtyüd\
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin ineptitudo, from ineptus
Date: 1615
: the quality or state of being inept; especially : incompetence

Congress has a 75% nonapproval rating. We hate out govt. Throw out the bums and elect more bums. Nothing ever gets done. We have people who are famous now for no reason. They haven't done a damn thing for the country other than line their pockets. Get some headlines, write a book, go on the talk circuit. We have people who expect millions in bonuses because they happen to occupy a chair during a market recovery. Sick. Easy money. No hard work involved. We don't make anything here anymore. Easier and cheaper to import from China. Jobs? They will answer your phone in India much more cheaply. Who cares if you can't get your problem resolved because you can't understand a damn word they say. A start would to be to bring all those jobs back, but that would affect the bottom line, so no go. Health Care? If you have a 100k bill, they will gladly take 35k cash. See any problem with this system? The very same prescription can cost you a $100 a
month or $9 a month online. Same drug. Most people tho don't give a damn what it costs cuz "my ins. will pay" but they pay the 100 not the 9. Dumb, huh.

[Snipe]

http://s.buzzfed.com/static/imagebuzz/terminal01/2009/1/23/15/the-bush-obama-morph-25181-1232742805-26.jpg

"Meet the New Boss. Same as the Old Boss."

[pizza delivery]

Actually, conservatives may not know how to "solve" health care, but they have ideas that would make things much better. As long as health care is essentially free, people will not make any decisions to keep costs down. Why should they when someone else is paying for it? My firm just went to HSA's. And when you have some skin in the game, you take a look at how you spend your health care dollars.

As for the party of "No", I think that's a good thing. To me, that means the republicans don't want government meddling in everything.


So they're elected to the government they dislike to deteriorate the functions of government, in place or otherwise. That's pretty damn ironic. Makes you wonder what kind of 'meddling' their idea of good government gets up to.

How much skin does your average person have to give to the game? If they can't afford 100 bucks a month to safeguard themselves and their family, how are they going to start saving for a "rainy accident"? You know a broken bone costs a ton of cash right? I mean, it would take me years to save for a broken arm, lol.

Right now, people 'that need to get better at keeping themselves healthy' don't have basic services anyway. So they fight off wretched colds, flu's, injuries all while still trying to get you your burger in under 90 seconds.

Is it a government hand out? Yes, but it strikes me as more practical than food stamps in the sense that preventing and stopping sickness and injury enables people to work and be productive. It also prevents crippling medical debt which is very demoralizing. Nobody ever went into thousands of dollars of debt from lacking food stamps. The saying goes, "you work to eat".

Another very important point is that insurance companies can quite arbitrarily decide not to pay for services. This happens to good, hard working people all the time. It needs to stop.

[kmcrawfo]

So much for that theory....down 200

I've been told stocks are going down due to China curbing bank lending, a brisk drop in IBM (IBM) shares, and a weak report on housing. All of which were noted/released this morning.

The boost yesterday, according to my advisor, was in anticipation of the Mass election.

Who's right, who knows. I let people who know a lot more than me about this stuff than me take care of my investments.

[GoMuskies]

Buy the rumor, sell the news.

[kmcrawfo]

So they're elected to the government they dislike to deteriorate the functions of government, in place or otherwise. That's pretty damn ironic. Makes you wonder what kind of 'meddling' their idea of good government gets up to.

How much skin does your average person have to give to the game? If they can't afford 100 bucks a month to safeguard themselves and their family, how are they going to start saving for a "rainy accident"? You know a broken bone costs a ton of cash right? I mean, it would take me years to save for a broken arm, lol.

.

Being poor is a relative term. Very few people in this country are actually what I define as poor. In general, the United States has so many entitlement programs and charitable organizations it catches the vast majority of people to some degree. I don't consider most of what I see in this country as true poverty. I am not saying it does not exist, but in comparison to other places around the world it is relatively uncommon in this country. Go to Haiti and you'll see poverty.

I have people who claim they are "poor" come in my office now to some degree and very frequently at Grady Hospital when I was in Atlanta. They claim they can't pay their $5 copay, co-insurance, etc. A quick look shows a person who weighs 300+ pounds (they sure aren't struggling to eat), is chatting on a cell phone, carrying a cigarette pack in their pocket, and talking about what they saw at home on American Idol/ESPN with their family or others in the weighting room. I also sometimes notice a nice manicure of the nails, etc. Often, I look out the window and see them drive away in a newer/nicer car than mine (I have a 10-year old Sable, so most cars are nicer).

Take away the cell phone and cable and boom you have your copayment, etc. In some cases people make a choice on what they value. I believe should have a choice of whether they want their Cell phone/Cable/etc. vs. a payment into an HSA. You make the call and live with the consequences.

FYI if you break you arm and show up at the ER. It is getting fixed. I does not matter if you have insurance, or not. If you are below a certain level if income and have no insurance, don't worry. You won't be paying anything. Our system subsidizes that.

As I have said before, my office turns no one away for inability to pay for skin cancer treatment and several other conditions. Most physicians I know do the same due to a sense of civic duty we each possess. However, keep in mind it is the payments that we receive from patients who do have insurance or can pay, that allows us to see someone for almost nothing. If reimbursements continue to drop and the government continues to add more regulations which increase overhead, there will come a time where taking care of those less fortunate will not be economically feasible to continue.
Did

[kmcrawfo]

It is time for me to back on track here in the office, so I get home to watch X pummel Temple.

Once again, thank goodness there are some things all of us can agree on.

Big game tonight! Go X.

[Porkopolis]

They claim they can't pay their $5 copay, co-insurance, etc. A quick look shows a person who weighs 300+ pounds (they sure aren't struggling to eat), is chatting on a cell phone, carrying a cigarette pack in their pocket, and talking about what they saw at home on American Idol/ESPN with their family or others in the weighting room. I also sometimes notice a nice manicure of the nails, etc. Often, I look out the window and see them drive away in a newer/nicer car than mine (I have a 10-year old Sable, so most cars are nicer).

Take away the cell phone and cable and boom you have your copayment, etc. In some cases people make a choice on what they value. I believe should have a choice of whether they want their Cell phone/Cable/etc. vs. a payment into an HSA. You make the call and live with the consequences.


I am not poor by any stretch. I run my own business on a shoestring and depend on my wife's salary for basic needs. This is due to a job loss that forced me to think outside of the box. So I am not crying poverty. Yet a prescription medication I take would cost more than my monthly salary if not for my insurance. This is medication that I absolutely must take. If, God forbid, my wife loses her job (my source of group health insurance), I won't be able to get individual coverage at a premium that is even remotely affordable. Care to tell me what expenses I could cut out to afford a drug that costs more than my income? People love to judge others when they simply don't know the situation.

[bobbiemcgee]

It is time for me to back on track here in the office, so I get home to watch X pummel Temple.

Once again, thank goodness there are some things all of us can agree on.

Big game tonight! Go X.

Points well taken. Time for the really serious stuff in life. GO X!!!!!!!!!

[chico]

All the above posts illustrate just why healthcare reform cannot be slapped together and rammed down our throats. It is just far too complicated and issue with so many different sides. You have doctors who keep getting squeezed by insurance companies and medicare reimbursements that a lot GP's are having trouble and may are becoming concierge docs. Pharmaceuticals cost an arm and a leg but the cost for R & D needs to be recouped somehow. People need treatment for things and either get stymied by insurance carriers or simply can't afford it. New treatments, machines and drugs cost a lot of money. But if you make things too expensive for insurance companies they'll fold up their tents and stop selling health insurance. And underlying the whole thing is the fundamental question of whether everyone is entitled to healthcare and, if so, just how much and how far do we go in treating people?

I certainly don't have all the answers, but I think there need to be some basic things that all people should be covered for (and like Crawford alluded to, hospitals rarely turn someone away). But I have no idea where to pragmatically draw the line between what should be covered and what shouldn't. Maybe everyone who seeks medical treatment should have to pay at least some nominal co-pay - say $5 - $10 so people aren't showing up at emergency rooms every time they get a hangnail.

If the government really wanted healthcare reform to mean something they would look at the whole intertwined mess in detail, call in experts, have hearings and really try to find the best possible fix, instead of slapping a huge document nobody really understands.

When I really think about it, it makes my head hurt. I need to go see a doc.

[kmcrawfo]

I am not poor by any stretch. I run my own business on a shoestring and depend on my wife's salary for basic needs. This is due to a job loss that forced me to think outside of the box. So I am not crying poverty. Yet a prescription medication I take would cost more than my monthly salary if not for my insurance. This is medication that I absolutely must take. If, God forbid, my wife loses her job (my source of group health insurance), I won't be able to get individual coverage at a premium that is even remotely affordable. Care to tell me what expenses I could cut out to afford a drug that costs more than my income? People love to judge others when they simply don't know the situation.

Just in case you ever need it, you should be familiar with this website:

http://www.rxassist.org/

Many others exist like it, but it is one of the best.

I can not recall not being able to get a patient a drug which they truly needed it. It often involves a phone call or letter from me to a pharaceutical company or getting them enrolled in a trial, but in the end I am usually able to get them the treatment they need. It takes innitiative and work on the doctor and patient's behalf. Sometimes patients don't come through on their side.... I can't help that.

My email explained observations, not judgements. Just to get this straight... you don't think it is odd for a patient to claim they can't pay a $5 copay while I hear their cell-phone is ringing in their pocket and they drive away in a new SUV?

It appears you are the one making judgements here. Obviously, I can't tell you what you would have to do to get your medicine should your wife lose her job. When this occurs in a real world and not the imaginary world you are painting I have my staff sit down with the patient look at their financial picture and options. I then offer possible solutions to get them what they need. I love how you are trying to portray me as a self-rightous, judgmental, enemy here. Remember, I am the one seeing patients for free and helping them get the care they need. Sometimes, though,people need to help themselves and make decisions on their own.

[pizza delivery]

If the government really wanted healthcare reform to mean something they would look at the whole intertwined mess in detail, call in experts, have hearings and really try to find the best possible fix, instead of slapping a huge document nobody really understands.



Good points, however, I know for a fact they have at least done this much leg work. The important part is getting something done. Then begin refining it. It's no longer time to put the burden on the good people that pay their bills and the doctors that work for free. Things need to even out and action must be taken.

[Porkopolis]

Just in case you ever need it, you should be familiar with this website:

http://www.rxassist.org/

I can not recall not being able to get a patient a drug which they truly needed it. It often involves a phone call or letter from me to a pharaceutical company or getting them enrolled in a trial, but in the end I am usually able to get them the treatment they need. It takes innitiative and work on the doctor and patient's behalf. Sometimes patients don't come through on their side.... I can't help that.

My email explained observations, not judgements. Just to get this straight... you don't think it is odd for a patient to claim they can't pay a $5 copay while I hear their cell-phone is ringing in their pocket and they drive away in a new SUV?

It appears you are the one making judgements here. Obviously, I can't tell you what you would have to do to get your medicine should your wife lose her job. When this occurs in a real world and not the imaginary world you are painting I have my staff sit down with the patient look at their financial picture and options. I then offer possible solutions to get them what they need. I love how you are trying to portray me as a self-rightous, judgmental, enemy here. Remember, I am the one seeing patients for free and helping them get the care they need. Sometimes, though,people need to help themselves and make decisions on their own.

Sorry, I did not mean to come off as attacking you. I get very emotional over this issue which is why I usually stay out of it.

I do think that there are legitimate reasons why a patient could have a cell phone or drive a new SUV and not be able to come up with the copay. In my case, for instance, the cell phone is my only phone. It was cheaper than a land line so we ditched the phone company. Perhaps the SUV was given to them by some one else, or was borrowed as they have no car of their own? Again both situations I have encountered.

Again, I apologize if I upset you...I just get a bit worked up over this issue.

[XU 87]

The important part is getting something done. Then begin refining it.

And therein lies the problem. I don't agree with passing a bill for the sake of passing a bill, which is what is going on right now.

But government passing bunch of laws isn't going to make health care magically cheaper. The primary way to make health care cheaper is that people have to start having an incentive to making sound economic health care decisions. When health care is free to a person, the person has no incentive to take such action. Hence, we see people going to an emergency room for a cold.

There is no perfect solution to the health care problem. And any solution is going to have some negatives. What we need to look for is to find the best solution.

[pizza delivery]

And actually attacking the problem and talking about it has no doubt raised awareness, instead of beating back reform or ignoring it like the previous 10-15 years.

The conservatives have recieved many, many concessions on this bill and really it doesn't matter because the whole goal is to deteriorate it and defeat it on stubborn principle and petty politics.

Oh, but later on they'll attack the problem with vigorous HSA's and Tort Reform, right? Let the free market feed! IF that worked at all, it would take several decades and some awful plague on the poor.

Reforming health care for conservatives means getting rid of it.

On the point about the fact that "no one gets refused" health care, well even that is conditional. I know a guy with a debilitating condition that takes him out of work for weeks randomly. He makes too much for relief you speak of, yet the medications and advanced treatments are WAY over his ability to pay for. He's stuck. Now he's got this pre-existing condition and he'll never be able to afford any of this. Close to half the people who get this disease kill themselves from the pain. One of the nicest guys you'd ever want to meet.

[bobbiemcgee]

I think the first place to start is BIG Pharma. 17% annual profit increases are just plain unexceptable....that means a drug doubles in price every 6 yrs. Absurd. 81% (2006) in some foreign countries. Whatever you take on a regular basis, type it in Google with the word "comparison" after it. You will find an ENORMOUS difference in price all across the globe. WHY? If it's 80% cheaper in FIJI, WHY DON't WE BUY ALL THE DRUGS IN FIJI??? The VA Hospitals pay the Fiji price. WHY DOESN't EVERYBODY ELSE. IT's CRIMINAL. It's certainly not right just bcuz Ins. Cos will pay 50-75% more with YOUR MONEY. Why the hell would they pay more. It's the same DAMN DRUG. It is absolutely a conspiracy of the first order. DEMAND WE PAY THE FIJI PRICE. JUST SAVED YOU 250 BILLION A YR. WTF is wrong with these people. OH yeah, THEY're CROOKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No, I am not a communist. Believe in reasonable profits for reasonable risks.

[chico]

Good points, however, I know for a fact they have at least done this much leg work. The important part is getting something done. Then begin refining it. It's no longer time to put the burden on the good people that pay their bills and the doctors that work for free. Things need to even out and action must be taken.

I think you're putting the cart before the horse. There of course comes a point where you have to take action but taking actions for the sake of doing it is not something I'd recommend. I'm sure there will be a need for refinements but you still need to put in the due diligence. I have to disagree that a lot of leg work has been done. I just haven't seen much meaningful discussion on the topic from legislators (I have to admit, though, that I haven not followed the whole process closely so maybe I missed something).

Plus, there needs to be a concerted effort from both sides of the aisle. So far I haven't seen any of that. Both sides are acting like little children.

[XU 87]

-pre-existing conditions will be admitted (took my 26 year old wife 6 months and several expensive tests to get coverage for very mild anemia)
-guaranteed coverage - or, making insurance companies honor their end of the bargain
-an atmosphere where the buyer is educated about the options from different companies
-relief for depressed lower and middle class people

These are real results for real people. It is also a clear picture of what life will be like.
Tort reform, portability, and hsa's (didn't like bush, eh?) are theoretical actions, de-regulatory, and impossible to quantify their effect.



Let's take a look at these. Pre-existing conditions have to be covered. Sounds fair, doesn't it? But then what stops someone from simply waiting to get sick before he buys coverage? As one person said, "We don't sell fire insurance after the house catches on fire."

Guaranteed coverage? What does that mean? And this stuff about insurance companies running around and denying coverage, in my experience , isn't what is going on in the real world. In fact, I can't remember one instance where an insurance company denied me or anyone in my family medical treatment. Of course, there are limits such as so many chiropractic treatments per year and things like that.

An atmosphere where the buyer is educated. I'm all for "atmosphere" but this seems to be a highly theoretical argument.

Relief for lower and middle class people. Again, this sounds great. But then who pays for this relief? Answer: me and all the other taxpayers. So I have to pay for my own insurance and then I have to pay for other people's insurance as well.

As for HSA's, they are not theoretical. Take a look at the premiums. And they do decrease medical costs because people have an incentive to do so.

[XU 87]

I think the first place to start is BIG Pharma. 17% annual profit increases are just plain unexceptable....

No, I am not a communist. Believe in reasonable profits for reasonable risks.

So do you think the government should decide how much an RX company should make and much they should charge for products? Why don't we have the government regulate all industries' profits as well? Why don't we put the government in charge of everyone's salary?

The capitalistic market isn't perfect, but it's much better than the alternatives.

[chico]

I personally like HSA's. I have one. Of course, I really didn't have a choice because I'm self-employed (so is my wife) and a group of 1 for the insurance companies would have cost us upwards of $20,000/year. So now we have catastrophic coverage with a deductible of $10,000. Not complaining, just letting you know HSA's aren't all that bad sometimes. And praying that we don't get pregnant again.

But like 87 said, it really does make you think about what's really necessary and what isn't. I was taking allergy medication for a condition I have which was pretty costly. However, I figured out what foods were causing it through trial and error and now I don't take the meds unless I absolutely have to. Would I have taken that initiative if the drug cost me nothing?

I know that obviously won't work for most people - just an example of what people can do themselves to lower their health costs.

I'd love to see the ability for self-employed people to form a group for healthcare like Bush had pushed for, but failing that, the HSA works best for us.

[bobbiemcgee]

So do you think the government should decide how much an RX company should make and much they should charge for products? Why don't we have the government regulate all industries' profits as well? Why don't we put the government in charge of everyone's salary?

The capitalistic market isn't perfect, but it's much better than the alternatives.

Guess you would pay $250,000 for a new Cadillac if your Company paid for it. No, I'm saying make them get competetive instead of just saying, "here's the NEW Price plus our 17% markup. Pay the new price or die". Nobody has ever answered my question. WHY is the same drug 70-80% cheaper overseas, and why aren't we paying that price. If Medicare announced tmrw, we are now paying the FIJI price only, the Pharma cos. would have to react the same way everyone else is. They would have to reduce kickbacks, fire a few thousand lobbyists and tighten their belts, reduce billions in bonuses, and stop the ad nauseam tv ads for a start.

[XU 87]

They would have to reduce kickbacks, fire a few thousand lobbyists and tighten their belts, reduce billions in bonuses, and stop the ad nauseam tv ads for a start.

I have a problem with the government telling someone else how to run their business. The government doesn't know how to run an RX company. And it's not up to the government to tell a business how much profit they should make.

[bobbiemcgee]

I have a problem with the government telling someone else how to run their business. The government doesn't know how to run an RX company. And it's not up to the government to tell a business how much profit they should make.

Not telling them how to run their biz, absolutely not. All I'm saying is we found a better price on your product elsewhere, so we aren't buying it from you anymore. However, I believe this is currently illegal in the US (can't buy outside the borders altho 21% of Americans do anyway.)

[GoMuskies]

Nobody has ever answered my question. WHY is the same drug 70-80% cheaper overseas, and why aren't we paying that price.

U.S. patent protection only extends to the outer limits of the U.S. borders.

[bobbiemcgee]

Corner Pharm: Here is your Prescription Sir: That will be $105.00 for 30 days.
Mexico Pharm: Here is your US Prescription Sir (same drug): 55.00 for 30 days please.
Fiji online: We will ship your US same drug today, a 90 day supply for $55.00. Same box. Same Plant. Same Company. If you would like, please take several twenties out of your pocket and burn them. Oh, and BTW, your US drug co still got the profits so don't worry. Ya know they have a big ass lobby so you'll pay more. They just sold them to us much cheaper bcuz you have dumbass taxpayers who will say it's ok.

[Smails]

According to any number of polls out there, somewhere between 89-94% of insured Americans are happy with the quality of the personal care they receive. I consider myself in that group. I've worked for three different companies post graduation and each had different plans with varrying expense levels. None of which I considered too expensive or inefficient. I've gone through three births, two back surgeries and a shitton of Dr. visits.

The healthcare debate is a simple one for me. I'm certainly right leaning when it comes to govt. intervention into my business or general intervention into the private sector. All of that aside, my big question is why do we have to turn the entire system upside down when 90% of the people that are currently in it are satisfied? Why can't our govt. come up with legislation to help those who actually need help?

Under the current bill, my company's plan would be taxed at such a high rate that they'd most likely just pay the penalty and drop the plan, hence forcing me and my family (a completely satisfied recipient) into a government run option.

Why can't our lawmakers address the 40+ million people without insurance and leave those of us alone who are happy as it is? I think healthcare reform sounded great to voters during the election. Now they see how it could potentially play out in their personal lives and they aren't too fond of what they're seeing.

[XU 87]

Under the current bill, my company's plan would taxed at such a high rate that they'd most likely just pay the penalty and drop the plan, hence forcing me and my family (a completely satisfied recipient) into a government run option.



You should consider unionizing.

[Porkopolis]

Smails, from this "small l" libertarian, you have 100% agreement. Something needs to be done to combat fraud and abuse--a legitimate function of the federal government--but the state needs to otherwise stay out of our business.

[bobbiemcgee]

U.S. patent protection only extends to the outer limits of the U.S. borders.

And yet they make most all the drugs overseas. INDIA, UK, Germany. Check your box to see where the US drug actually came from. They ship 'em here, but it's ILLEGAL to buy overseas. 600 billion a yr. Buy 'em overseas 250-300 billion. NUTS!

[Smails]

You should consider unionizing.

Ha!..Then I'd get that 5 year exemption. What a sweet deal those crooks are getting.

[XU 87]

In an interview with Stephanopolis, Obama blamed yesterday's election on........ George Bush. He said that people are still mad about what happened the previous 8 years and that this voter anger helped Brown.

So the voters are taking it out on Obama because they're still pissed at Bush. Or put another way, the voters are still so mad at Bush that they're putting republicans in office.

[joebba]

In an interview with Stephanopolis, Obama blamed yesterday's election on........ George Bush. He said that people are still mad about what happened the previous 8 years and that this voter anger helped Brown.

So the voters are taking it out on Obama because they're still pissed at Bush. Or put another way, the voters are still so mad at Bush that they're putting republicans in office.

If that quote is true I am pissed. Get over it, you are in Power now "Broke" Obama. Well, how about 9/11. We can blame that on the previous administration. Bush did not get into that, he jumped into putting a stop to the attacks. The left is so spineless.

BTW, I am not a huge Bush fan, and am not overly happy with the republicans. I would lean toward libertarian if the party could realistically elect enough into office.

[XU 87]

If that quote is true I am pissed.

You can read the interview on Drudgereport.com

[Xman95]

If that quote is true I am pissed. Get over it, you are in Power now "Broke" Obama.

Get used to it. For the 2012 election Obama's going to run against Bush again. Oh, I know he ran against McCain in '08, but it seems neither Obama nor the media seemed to care. But whoever is against him in 2012 won't matter because I guarantee that he'll be using the "anti-Bush" message again. (Actually, I give credit to Obama because it was a great campaign strategy...but now it seems people are starting to see through the career campaigner.)

[Smails]

Is that really necessary? Good god..

[bobbiemcgee]

Is that really necessary? Good god..

haha tmi for a Fri morning...I deleted him

[kmcrawfo]

Sorry, I did not mean to come off as attacking you. I get very emotional over this issue which is why I usually stay out of it.

I do think that there are legitimate reasons why a patient could have a cell phone or drive a new SUV and not be able to come up with the copay. In my case, for instance, the cell phone is my only phone. It was cheaper than a land line so we ditched the phone company. Perhaps the SUV was given to them by some one else, or was borrowed as they have no car of their own? Again both situations I have encountered.

Again, I apologize if I upset you...I just get a bit worked up over this issue.

No worries on that. I understand this is an emotional and passionate issue for a large proportion of our society. I believe most people want to help and provide excellent medical care to as many people as possible. The problem is there are profound differences in how individuals and groups believe this is best achieved.

To my eyes it is obvious that the 2 current bills being debated in Congress would substantially reduce the quality of care for the majority of Americans and induce a significant tax/fee/financial burden on employers and middle-high income earners.

In general when the government takes something over and initiates massive reform/change, the end product is not a good, nor efficient as the original. It is very hard, if not impossible, to turn back the clock at that time.

I feel that significant health care reform could/should be summarized and instituted in a doucment of 25-pages, or less, in simple lay person language. I actually read the original 2000+ document that was available on the internet some time ago. Most of it is a bunch of political BS and there are some down-right scary things in it that I guarantee no one on this board would agree with.

A very wise surgeon taught a lesson during my training, which I think applies to many things in life. We were looking at a defect/wound on a patient's face which resulted from a skin cancer we had finished removing. He asked me how I thought we should do the reconstruction. I offerred several elaborate flaps and grafts and advanced reconstructive techniques. He looked at me, then drew and very simple, primary closure and said "In the vast majority of cases you will encounter, the simplest and most straight-forward approach will generate the best final result."

I have found this to be true not only in my surgical cases, but also in managing my office, the enlisted people which I command in the Air Force, and other aspectss in general. There is that saying, KISS = Keep It Simple Stupid. Our government does not follow this policy, ever.

I believe regardless of your political affiliation, we should all be very leary of any massive bill/solution implemented by either party that is so complex/lengthy that the congressmen themselves, do not understand it. Many times, in the end you will often get something much different than you ever anticipated.

[Xman95]

This whole health care thing gets more and more absurd each day. I had a co-worker insist that Conservatives don't want any health care reform because they don't care. Well, I'm sick and tired of hearing this. I'm conservative and would love for reform. What I don't want is more legislation/programs to add to my taxes.

Why can't the government look at everything currently sucking up money and start to trim the fat? Then they could use that money to help fund health care. Is that such a tough concept? If they were to do that I'm sure many more people would get on board.

[xudash]

This whole health care thing gets more and more absurd each day. I had a co-worker insist that Conservatives don't want any health care reform because they don't care. Well, I'm sick and tired of hearing this. I'm conservative and would love for reform. What I don't want is more legislation/programs to add to my taxes.

Why can't the government look at everything currently sucking up money and start to trim the fat? Then they could use that money to help fund health care. Is that such a tough concept? If they were to do that I'm sure many more people would get on board.

Liberals confuse physically sound reform with the notion that we don't want any reform at all, which is stupid.

Give me tort and insurance reform and we're off to the races with this thing, along with not forcing people who don't want it to buy it.

[Xman95]

Liberals confuse physically sound reform with the notion that we don't want any reform at all, which is stupid.

Give me tort and insurance reform and we're off to the races with this thing, along with not forcing people who don't want it to buy it.

Not to mention all the excess money companies are going to have to pay in taxes. I was listening to the big boss for Invacare and he said the proposed bill would mean they have to pay $12-14mil in extra taxes. Because of it, he said they have stopped hiring and are looking at other ways to save money. I'm guessing the cost of their products will go up to. So how does that fit into Obama's lie, sorry, Obama's plan to not raise taxes and to create jobs? I also thought he was going to trim unnecessary spending in Washington. Doesn't seem like this bill helps there either.

I'm not giving the Right a pass on this either. They're doing a great job of complaining and fingering pointing while fighting the proposed bills. But, in addition to opposing the Left, why can't they make more of an effort to come up with something better? They're turning into the Democrats during the Bush years. Just point the finger, complain and place blame. Don't put forth any legitimate solutions.

Each day I'm one step closer to Snipedom. I'm starting to hate both sides.

[Porkopolis]

Thanks kmcrawfo. I agree with most of what you said in your most recent post. The current legislation would have a negative effect on our health care system. "Fixing" the system by making it worse is no fix at all.