The Band is ruining the student section!

[NY44]

I don't know if anyone else has noticed but the pep band is ruining our student section. They divide the two sides of the student sections, start their own cheers, and overall divide the student section into three off rhythm sections. Also they make our free throw distraction one sided. MOVE THE PEP BAND INTO THE FAR RIGHT CORNER AND SAVE THE #3 STUDENT SECTION IN THE NATION.

[Xavierblobforce400]

I am glad we have a pep band. I like it alot. I like the music they play, the cheers they start, and the excitement they add to the arena. But i would like them to be on the side of the student section instead of where they are now.

[GoMuskies]

Where does out student section rank in the RPI? Do we have a shot at a #1 seed?

[Fear the Cough]

I never understood why they take up the whole section right behind the basket. Why arent they in the corner?

[Kahns Krazy]

This thread is so Pep Band.

[Drew's Crew]

I completely agree with the sentiment of the OP. I love having a band but having them in the middle of the section is stupid.

Additionally, we either need to get more tubas or get rid of them completely. They take up 3 ROWS OF THE STUDENT SECTION. One game this year, we had only 2 tubas. 2 tubas took up 3 ROWS during the game.

Our student section is small as it is (esp. if we continue to grow in student pop.) Devoting 3 rows to 2 tubas is an absolute crock.

[BandAid]

There are more logistics involved than what meets the eye if you want move the band.

1. The band is mic'd. Wiring running through the student section is probably not a good idea.

2. Balance of instrumentation. Bands are arranged certain ways to get full sounds and representation out of each section.

Obviously both of these things could be fixed, but I have another suggestion:
Instead of bitching about it, learn an instrument and join the band. Guaranteed seats (even for Crosstown and Dayton game), free room and stipends to play at all the tournament games, and free Xavier shirts and jackets. Or you can join the cheer team: same gig, except you get to touch women's butts.

Another side note: At multiple women's games, and some distant tournament locations the band IS the entire student section.

You want to help the student section: slow down the cheers. We sound like we need ritalin.

[GoMuskies]

same gig, except you get to touch women's butts.

Yep, cause if you're in the band that's not likely to ever happen.

(Sorry, too easy)

[BandAid]

Yep, cause if you're in the band that's not likely to ever happen.

(Sorry, too easy)

Haha. Now that you mention it...that may be the "lift" my social life has been lacking.

[Xaveriana]

This one time at Band Camp I ...

I sit in the 1st non-student next to the band...love the band! They could use more cowbell though. :)

[Drew's Crew]

There are more logistics involved than what meets the eye if you want move the band.

1. The band is mic'd. Wiring running through the student section is probably not a good idea.

2. Balance of instrumentation. Bands are arranged certain ways to get full sounds and representation out of each section.

Obviously both of these things could be fixed, but I have another suggestion:
Instead of bitching about it, learn an instrument and join the band. Guaranteed seats (even for Crosstown and Dayton game), free room and stipends to play at all the tournament games, and free Xavier shirts and jackets. Or you can join the cheer team: same gig, except you get to touch women's butts.

Another side note: At multiple women's games, and some distant tournament locations the band IS the entire student section.

You want to help the student section: slow down the cheers. We sound like we need ritalin.

I hope the band is better in talent level than allowing myself to pick up an instrument, learn it, and then be able to join the band.

Also, I don't feel like going back for a Master's just so I can be in the band.

I don't want more room for the students because I am a student, I just want more room because it allows more students to sit and make our home court advantage more significant.

[Xavierblobforce400]

There are more logistics involved than what meets the eye if you want move the band.

1. The band is mic'd. Wiring running through the student section is probably not a good idea.

2. Balance of instrumentation. Bands are arranged certain ways to get full sounds and representation out of each section.

Obviously both of these things could be fixed, but I have another suggestion:
Instead of bitching about it, learn an instrument and join the band. Guaranteed seats (even for Crosstown and Dayton game), free room and stipends to play at all the tournament games, and free Xavier shirts and jackets. Or you can join the cheer team: same gig, except you get to touch women's butts.

Another side note: At multiple women's games, and some distant tournament locations the band IS the entire student section.

You want to help the student section: slow down the cheers. We sound like we need ritalin.

Great points Bandaid. I think the pep band is a great part of Xavier and certainly dont want it to go away. I was just thinking that moving it to one side or the other would be cool because the student section is so tiny and looks even smaller when it is split in half. Idk if you think this is a big deal and since it sounds like you are in the band, maybe you could tell us if you think the student section would be better with the on the edge of it instead of the center.

[xufandownsouth]

Believe it or not there was talk about moving the band. There was just no logical place to put them. There was even complications about putting them in the corner of the student section. Also the different cheers are being started by the cheerleaders and the student section with the painted up people. The band is not the group doing this. The band does more than what people realize. The band are students too and they are more than capable of connecting the cheers between the "divided" student section.

[PM Thor]

Dear Band,
Stop going out on the floor while the players warm up. It's just not good. I like the fact that you tried it, but stop it.

I say move the band up into the back of section 216 for the dayton game. I would do the wiring for this, I really would.

I HATE dayton.

[CinciX12]

I hope the band is better in talent level than allowing myself to pick up an instrument, learn it, and then be able to join the band.

Also, I don't feel like going back for a Master's just so I can be in the band.

I don't want more room for the students because I am a student, I just want more room because it allows more students to sit and make our home court advantage more significant.

Yeah, please take out the word sit.

[xufandownsouth]

Well athletics likes the fact of us going on the court and so do many of the fans. The fans are liking the fact of the band getting more involved.

[CinciX12]

Well athletics likes the fact of us going on the court and so do many of the fans. The fans are liking the fact of the band getting more involved.

Congratulations on having the support of the eighty year olds.

[PM Thor]

Well athletics likes the fact of us going on the court and so do many of the fans. The fans are liking the fact of the band getting more involved.

I'm fine with being more involved, but the application isn't good. I suggest grouping yourselves in one corner of the floor for the warmup. I say this because doing the single line around the halfcourt isn't just bad asthetically, it sounds bad too. The band should stick together, IMO.

I HATE dayton.

[xumuskies08]

Well athletics likes the fact of us going on the court and so do many of the fans. The fans are liking the fact of the band getting more involved.

I like the idea, but I sit in the upper deck and it is IMPOSSIBLE to hear you when you're on the floor. Perhaps if the band members who stand along half-court stood facing the opposite basket instead of towards the students it would help a bit. Cintas just doesn't carry sound very well.

But back to the issue at hand...I think it would be better for the student section if they could find a way to put the band in a different location.

[NY44]

i really think the only way to solve the issue is to move them into a corner, I can't imagine moving the microphones is too big of a deal, also if the microphones are so important to sound quality than how on earth do we hear them while they're on the court. Next time your at the game note how the band absent side is much crazier constantly jumping up and down is there any difference between the fans on each side....no there isnt there is just a band dividing them. the only cheers that stick are the ones the blue painted guys make and 1-10 cheerleader ones the band tries to make there own but acts as a muffler. Put them in the corner on the opposite side of the arena or JUST RECORD MUSIC they take away so much except for the fight song

[XU Cowbell Kid]

Alright, so here is the deal. I'm on the Pep Band board, so I kinda have an in with what goes on and where.

First off, everyone in the band is a student. Please do not say that it divides the student section. That is like saying that chocolate ice cream isn't really a part of Neapolitan ice cream. We're all part of the section, the band is just a different flavor.

Second, the pep band also does not like that we have 3 rows for tubas at some games. However, there is no way to tell how many students are going to show up to play at the pep band at any given game. The band is split into two halves, the blue band and the white band (the colors are arbitrary). Every game has a set band that will be playing, so on any given night we are guaranteed to have half of the pep band show up. However, all members of the non-assigned band are encouraged to come play. Since the pep band is up to about 90 members this year, that means that we could have anywhere between 45 and 90 people show up. In a perfect world, we would have every member at every game, but when a game is on a Tuesday night and you have a Calc III exam the next morning at 8:30, things shape up differently. The athletics department gives us enough seats so that the opposite doesn't happen and you don't end up having a tuba player sitting on your lap.

Third, it isn't the band throwing off the cheering. The cheer leaders are not allowed to go with cheers that they haven't been taught. (While it seems pointless on the "MUSKIEEES! GO X U! chant, it's a safety thing so that they don't start chanting "bullshit" at bad calls and the likes.)

Fourth, we don't like going out onto the court either. We fought against it after trying it at the first exhibition game, but whoever said that we pleased some 80 year olds nailed it right on the head. The old people in the first few rows that shell out huge amounts of money to athletics every year have told the athletics department that they love the band coming out on the floor. So yeah, we don't like it either, but athletics has the final say on that one.

Fifth, I don't know how often you actually watch the band during the game, but I'm assuming you don't sit there and stare at us the whole time. (If you do, I'm sorry that you waste your money on that, the game is much more exciting.) But to say that our side doesn't cheer as loudly is preposterous. Maybe you looked over at a time when our director was giving us instructions for the next time out (the timeouts have scripts that run about a half a page each, and so every timeout we have to be clued in as to what is going on). But most of the time, we are right there going along with everyone else being just as crazy.

Sixth, and this is mostly directed at NY44, I'd like to see the recorded music get the fans going like the band does with "Livin' on a Prayer", "Don't Stop Believing", "Blues Brothers" (thats the one that everybody does the monkey dance and slide thing), or "Sweet Caroline". I'm not saying that the recorded music isn't good, but the Pep Band brings the basketball culture that helps to define what college basketball is all about... the atmosphere.

To sum it all up, I don't think we need to move the Pep Band. If you guys want to pick on somebody, pick on all of the fans who refuse to stand up at any point in the game. Those are the people that will solidify the 3rd place ranking that EA gave us.

And yes, we do need more cowbell.

[Pajama Joe]

i really think the only way to solve the issue is to move them into a corner, I can't imagine moving the microphones is too big of a deal, also if the microphones are so important to sound quality than how on earth do we hear them while they're on the court. Next time your at the game note how the band absent side is much crazier constantly jumping up and down is there any difference between the fans on each side....no there isnt there is just a band dividing them. the only cheers that stick are the ones the blue painted guys make and 1-10 cheerleader ones the band tries to make there own but acts as a muffler. Put them in the corner on the opposite side of the arena or JUST RECORD MUSIC they take away so much except for the fight song


Wow, are you serious? It's the bands fault that the left side (left side when standing in the student section) of the student section lacks enthusiasm? I don't think I really follow that. I agree that they may serve the student section better if we could find a better place for them, but presuming that the band causes the left side of the student section to be dull is a poor assessment. Have you ever watched the students at the top of the right side? There are many dull students in there as well. The fact is that the layout of our student section is disgusting. I don't think moving the band is going to completely solve those "issues."

[Cheesehead]

Well, if the band is going to go onto the Court, I think they should dot the "R".

All I'm saying.

[jamal4xu]

Well athletics likes the fact of us going on the court and so do many of the fans. The fans are liking the fact of the band getting more involved.

Really? Really. Who, other than mom and dad, has told you they like the band out on the floor? Don't make a claim like that unless you have some facts to back it up.

That being said, if you were to track the growth of the band over the years, much like the basketball team, you would see an upward progression. The music selection is better and the talent has improved.

I would hazard a guess that half the reason they are sandwiched were they are is so athletics doesn't have to hear some donor gripe about how they can't enjoy the game because the horns are right next to him. Additionally, when there are holiday games the sections in the corner are easier to sell to the general public because it doesn't sandwich them between students (I know, I know, student section seats are sold in all sections during holiday games - but the logic makes sense).

[XU Cowbell Kid]

Really? Really. Who, other than mom and dad, has told you they like the band out on the floor? Don't make a claim like that unless you have some facts to back it up.



Sigh, I'm guessing you guys didn't read my post at all then.

[BandAid]

I hope the band is better in talent level than allowing myself to pick up an instrument, learn it, and then be able to join the band.

Also, I don't feel like going back for a Master's just so I can be in the band.

I don't want more room for the students because I am a student, I just want more room because it allows more students to sit and make our home court advantage more significant.

I know several band members who did not know how to play an instrument the year before, or learned a new instrument in order to play in the band. Learning an instrument to play pep band music (which isn't very difficult music, by the way) isn't that hard.

[whiteyxu]

I think the main reason why some people think the non-band side is crazier than the side with the band is because that's where the people who show up early to the game go to sit. I don't know if all of the alumni know this or not, but the student ticket policy changed, and now you ticket spot is determined by when you show up for the game (there are no more ticket pickup days where you can camp out for front row tickets and then show up to the game late). The people who show up earlier are given tickets for section 115, so they are likely to be the rowdiest bunch. I don't think it has everything to do with the band being on the other side.

And thanks for the post, Cowbell Kid, it's nice to hear an insider's perspective. As a senior, I can really see that the band has improved over my four years here.

[BandAid]

Great points Bandaid. I think the pep band is a great part of Xavier and certainly dont want it to go away. I was just thinking that moving it to one side or the other would be cool because the student section is so tiny and looks even smaller when it is split in half. Idk if you think this is a big deal and since it sounds like you are in the band, maybe you could tell us if you think the student section would be better with the on the edge of it instead of the center.

I do not deny the split between the two halves of the student is far from ideal. Unfotunately, to totally unify the section we would have to move an entire half to the other side. Then we would have the coverage behind the basket that we try to have. I always felt the gap was more structural than based on the merit of the student fans. Of course, as a former band member I am biased, and probably too close to the situation.

I think the best option is simply moving the band one section over. Not up in the corner, but no longer "separating" the student section.

[BandAid]

i really think the only way to solve the issue is to move them into a corner, I can't imagine moving the microphones is too big of a deal, also if the microphones are so important to sound quality than how on earth do we hear them while they're on the court. Next time your at the game note how the band absent side is much crazier constantly jumping up and down is there any difference between the fans on each side....no there isnt there is just a band dividing them. the only cheers that stick are the ones the blue painted guys make and 1-10 cheerleader ones the band tries to make there own but acts as a muffler. Put them in the corner on the opposite side of the arena or JUST RECORD MUSIC they take away so much except for the fight song

Once again logistically based, and not the fault of the bandmembers. I was once an over-zealous band member jumping constantly (and I know many, many other members who felt/feel similar passion). Then I damaged one of the instruments...

[rove02]

Do people really think that Xavier has the 3rd best student section in the country or 3rd hardest place to play (which I think is really what was rated by EA). Cintas can be a hard place to play especially during Crosstown Shootout or against dayton but we are far from the 3rd hardest place to play in the country. A lot of Xavier fans are kinda mild actually, just look at how many people refuse to stand up even in the lower section.

[GuyFawkes38]

Do people really think that Xavier has the 3rd best student section in the country or 3rd hardest place to play (which I think is really what was rated by EA). Cintas can be a hard place to play especially during Crosstown Shootout or against dayton but we are far from the 3rd hardest place to play in the country. A lot of Xavier fans are kinda mild actually, just look at how many people refuse to stand up even in the lower section.

I have always been proud of this. The fans at Cintas are subdued. But the team has been great for the past 10 years. That ratio equals coolness.

I think it would be very uncool to have a loud fanbase cheering for a subpar team.

The bottom line: I like to be cool and subdued during games. I'm always irritated when fans stand in front of me.

[Emp]

In almost every tournament game I have seen or attended (X or otherwise), the pep band has been located behind the basket. The TV crew editors like band shots, and just about everone puts the band behind the basket.

The pep band is part of attending a basketball game. Staying disciplined and playing for 2-1/2 hours, plus the practice time, deserves rewards, and certainly being behind the basket and close to the floor is a fair reward.

I like the band where it is. Long may you run.

[xufandownsouth]

[QUOTE=jamal4xu;156124]Really? Really. Who, other than mom and dad, has told you they like the band out on the floor? Don't make a claim like that unless you have some facts to back it up.

As a matter of fact I was down in Orlando for the tournament and asked some of the alumni what they thought about it and they all loved it. The band director has also told some of the band members that many people have emailed the athletic department saying that they love it. There are your facts. It is not just mom and dad saying it.

[drudy23]

Alright, so here is the deal. I'm on the Pep Band board, so I kinda have an in with what goes on and where.

First off, everyone in the band is a student. Please do not say that it divides the student section. That is like saying that chocolate ice cream isn't really a part of Neapolitan ice cream. We're all part of the section, the band is just a different flavor.

Second, the pep band also does not like that we have 3 rows for tubas at some games. However, there is no way to tell how many students are going to show up to play at the pep band at any given game. The band is split into two halves, the blue band and the white band (the colors are arbitrary). Every game has a set band that will be playing, so on any given night we are guaranteed to have half of the pep band show up. However, all members of the non-assigned band are encouraged to come play. Since the pep band is up to about 90 members this year, that means that we could have anywhere between 45 and 90 people show up. In a perfect world, we would have every member at every game, but when a game is on a Tuesday night and you have a Calc III exam the next morning at 8:30, things shape up differently. The athletics department gives us enough seats so that the opposite doesn't happen and you don't end up having a tuba player sitting on your lap.

Third, it isn't the band throwing off the cheering. The cheer leaders are not allowed to go with cheers that they haven't been taught. (While it seems pointless on the "MUSKIEEES! GO X U! chant, it's a safety thing so that they don't start chanting "bullshit" at bad calls and the likes.)

Fourth, we don't like going out onto the court either. We fought against it after trying it at the first exhibition game, but whoever said that we pleased some 80 year olds nailed it right on the head. The old people in the first few rows that shell out huge amounts of money to athletics every year have told the athletics department that they love the band coming out on the floor. So yeah, we don't like it either, but athletics has the final say on that one.

Fifth, I don't know how often you actually watch the band during the game, but I'm assuming you don't sit there and stare at us the whole time. (If you do, I'm sorry that you waste your money on that, the game is much more exciting.) But to say that our side doesn't cheer as loudly is preposterous. Maybe you looked over at a time when our director was giving us instructions for the next time out (the timeouts have scripts that run about a half a page each, and so every timeout we have to be clued in as to what is going on). But most of the time, we are right there going along with everyone else being just as crazy.

Sixth, and this is mostly directed at NY44, I'd like to see the recorded music get the fans going like the band does with "Livin' on a Prayer", "Don't Stop Believing", "Blues Brothers" (thats the one that everybody does the monkey dance and slide thing), or "Sweet Caroline". I'm not saying that the recorded music isn't good, but the Pep Band brings the basketball culture that helps to define what college basketball is all about... the atmosphere.

To sum it all up, I don't think we need to move the Pep Band. If you guys want to pick on somebody, pick on all of the fans who refuse to stand up at any point in the game. Those are the people that will solidify the 3rd place ranking that EA gave us.

And yes, we do need more cowbell.

Wait...there's a pep band board? Sorry, I didn't read any of your post after that.

[Xavierblobforce400]

Once again logistically based, and not the fault of the bandmembers. I was once an over-zealous band member jumping constantly (and I know many, many other members who felt/feel similar passion). Then I damaged one of the instruments...

That's totally fair. And students that play instruments are still students. They deserve a spot in the section.

[DoubleD86]

I work for the Marketing department at all home games, and during the games I spend most of my time in the tunnel between the student section and the band. Without a doubt, the band is very involved in the game and there is very little of a gap between the student section and band. When the band is not playing or preparing to play, they are joining in on the chants with the students. In fact, it is sometimes the band who begins a chant or talks to the students across the tunnel to start a chant. The band is in no way the reason the "isolated" students are more subdued. Whoever discussed the ticket policy hit the nail on the head, those students are the ones who often show up right before the game and are not the fanatic kind of fans.

[Xavierblobforce400]

And to XU Cowbell Kid, all I have to say to you is SCCUUUUUUUUUUBBBAAAA!

[MADXSTER]

NY44(the one who started this thread) must be a Band Hater. His first post.

He was probably abused with a band instrument as a child. Hates all kinds of music. Hates people who look musically gifted. Hates people who whistle. Hates people who hum. Hates people who think about humming. Probably flunked music class in grade school. Hates movies with music in them. He's just not nice. ;)

[XU Cowbell Kid]

And to XU Cowbell Kid, all I have to say to you is SCCUUUUUUUUUUBBBAAAA!

Hahahaha, I love it!

And drudy, why wouldn't there be a pep band board? It is a class/club hybrid, and all clubs have an officer board. I'm not calling you out or anything, I guess I'm just surprised that you are surprised.

[STL_XUfan]

Don't make a claim like that unless you have some facts to back it up.



Moderators is this a new rule i am unaware of? Crap I think we just lost about half of the posts on this board.

[TheDanimal]

1.) The band has definitely improved over the past several years... so kudos to them. I did a lot with the music department while I was at X (although I was not in band), and the band used to kind of be a laughing stock among those who knew music; it has gotten a lot better.

2.) Cowbell Kid - if you get a chance, let someone know that horns/trombones should be mic-ed a bit less and the trumpets a bit more... we're losing the melody of the fight song in the upper deck

3.) What is really ruining the student section is the lack of $1 blue beers pregame at Ryan's this year...travesty

[XU Cowbell Kid]

1.) The band has definitely improved over the past several years... so kudos to them. I did a lot with the music department while I was at X (although I was not in band), and the band used to kind of be a laughing stock among those who knew music; it has gotten a lot better.

2.) Cowbell Kid - if you get a chance, let someone know that horns/trombones should be mic-ed a bit less and the trumpets a bit more... we're losing the melody of the fight song in the upper deck

3.) What is really ruining the student section is the lack of $1 blue beers pregame at Ryan's this year...travesty

Thanks for letting me know Danimal... It's really hard to tell if we are getting a balanced sound when standing directly in front of the band. I'll see what we can do.

[XUOHTX]

We aren't the only one who does this...

http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/therundown/Half%20Court%20Student%20Section.jpg

http://cache4.asset-cache.net/xc/81349475.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1934B869679A269F9CC92DF06CE9B47BC42 26FD13ED7B73D4BC

http://binaryfusion.net/images/basketball-band.jpg

[Xpectations]

And drudy, why wouldn't there be a pep band board? It is a class/club hybrid, and all clubs have an officer board. I'm not calling you out or anything, I guess I'm just surprised that you are surprised.

That's just Drudy being Drudy. And, as usual, it made me laugh.

[CinciX12]

Why exactly did this get moved? How is the student section not a part of men's basketball?

[D-West & PO-Z]

We aren't the only one who does this...

http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/therundown/Half%20Court%20Student%20Section.jpg

http://cache4.asset-cache.net/xc/81349475.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1934B869679A269F9CC92DF06CE9B47BC42 26FD13ED7B73D4BC

http://binaryfusion.net/images/basketball-band.jpg

The first pic is at SLU, but the band is not in the middle. There are 3 sections in the student section and the band is on one side.

[Kahns Krazy]

I thought I had missed something when I read this thread the first time, so I paid attention to where the band was and the student section.

They are in the exact same spot they've been since the Cintas opened, right? How is it possible that they are now "ruining" the student section?

[DC Muskie]

If there is anyway the band could stop playing Sweet Caroline, that would be appreciated.

Or at least not on December 29th.

thanks!

[MADXSTER]

If there is anyway the band could stop playing Sweet Caroline, that would be appreciated.

Or at least not on December 29th.

thanks!

Grow up DC or we'll start calling you Roy Williams. :)

[Juice]

If there is anyway the band could stop playing Sweet Caroline, that would be appreciated.

Or at least not on December 29th.

thanks!

This is the first time we have ever agreed on anything. I cringe when I hear that God damn song in bars, in the car, at the game, where ever. That song's popularity was built on the backs of douchers much like Don't Stop Believing and Living on a Prayer.

Hey losers (speaking in general, not to anyone specific), we get it, you know the words to songs that have been around for decades.

Rant over.

[blobfan]

This is the first time we have ever agreed on anything. I cringe when I hear that God damn song in bars, in the car, at the game, where ever. That song's popularity was built on the backs of douchers much like Don't Stop Believing and Living on a Prayer.

Hey losers (speaking in general, not to anyone specific), we get it, you know the words to songs that have been around for decades.

Rant over.

I always thought the fun part of the song was everyone only knew 2 words.

Neil Diamond rocks. Don't get me wrong. I can't stand most of his music. But at the same time he's got that so-unabashadly-dorky-he's-kinda-cool thing goin' on.

The upper bowl sound problems are probably due more to technical choices than anything the band can affect. I get the impression that as long as people say sound is great in the lower bowl, they tend to ignore how badly it sounds in the upper. Part of that is probably the decision going where the money is, but it's also an issue of how difficult it is in the arena to get the sound to balance, and to make adjustments mid-game. I think we'll see that improve with next year's upgrades.

Add me to the list of people that think the band is doing great this year. I'll suffer through a few minutes of hearing only half of them when they play on the court. Thanks to all the current band members working hard this year, and the past members that worked hard to get the ball rolling in this direction.