Fr. Graham's Salary

[Masterofreality]

Interesting article in the (very) Plain Dealer talking about the salaries of Presidents of Private Schools in the state of Ohio. The highest salary was at Case Western Reserve at $548,000 per year.

To my surprise A) Father Graham was listed, B) He's 4th highest in salary of schools on the list C) He is reported to make $380,000. Curran at udump is 2nd at $495,000. The President of John Carroll up here in the Cuyahoga Socialist State is listed as having $0 salary because the money is "paid to his religious order." Interesting.

Both John Carroll and Xavier are Jesuit schools. I'm not faulting Father Graham at all, he does a superb job, but why do the Jesuits handle two schools differently?

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/11/case_western_reserve_president.html

[GuyFawkes38]

hmmm, I think it might be a mistake.

[surfxu]

Fr Graham deserves a raise. He is absolutely fantastic. I love to go his masses. He has steered the Xavier ship to it's largest freshman class ever (by a long shot). He has made sure that the best marketing tool (men's and women's basketball) have the resources and personel to succeed. He has been at the helm overseeing the largest expansion of the Xavier campus in history. Xavier has and will continue to thrive with Fr Graham at the helm.

[STL_XUfan]

I think the only difference is that Xavier reports a salary. I am sure that salary is paid to the Jesuit order (vow of poverty keeps him from keeping his salary).

[Kahns Krazy]

Vow of poverty as it applies to the SJ's is rather comical. I'd love to live at their level of poverty.

[Roach]

It's purely an accouting issue. Fr. Graham, pursuant to his vow of poverty, remits his entire salary to the Jesuit Order. He is technically paid the money first, then he remits it. In John Carroll's case, the money goes directly to the Order before ever being paid to him. It's the same net effect. The John Carroll example is actually more of an aberration from the norm. Most typically, the priest-president of a Catholic university who has a vow of poverty is actually paid the money first, and subsequently remits it. I know this is the case at Notre Dame for Fr. Jenkins and for Fr. Donahue at Villanova.

[wkrq59]

Roach, you're right on. It's the same for all religious orders. The diocesean priests however have a different set of rules, but they, too, take a vow of poverty in that they live under the benefice of the Bishop or Archbishop. What that means I'll be damned if I know or care. They couldn't pay me enough to do what most priests do. :D

[xubball93]

My mother loves, damn near worships, Fr. Graham. If priests could marry, she'd make him husband #2.

[BandAid]

My mother loves, damn near worships, Fr. Graham. If priests could marry, she'd make him husband #2.

I've heard first hand from multiple girls who have quite the crush on him.

[GuyFawkes38]

I've honestly never liked him.

[Pablo's Brother]

I've honestly never liked him.

Your view is in the minority.

Like it or not, Fr. Graham IS Xavier.

[vee4xu]

Not sure why this is a story. On one hand many here (including me) talk about how Fr. Graham is an important piece of what makes Xavier great. On the other hand we debate how much he makes. The guy has done nothing but good things for Xavier. First and foremost, he has raised nearly $200 million to redevelop the campus and make it state of the art. On his watch we have seen freshman class sizes grow from the high 800's to over 1,100. Also, US News and World Report ranks Xavier as an excellent academic institution. Finally, he is President of the Atlantic 10 conference and his AD is on the NCAA selection committee. All of this in addition to maintaining excellence in both athletics and academics. Seems to me that the guy is underpaid at nearly $500K. But, as q and some others have said, his salary is just a number because it all goes back into the society. In return, Fr. Graham wants for nothing respective of his room, board and transportation. I don't see an issue.

[Muskie1000]

As a man and a priest, you have to respect him. He can give a speech like no other. As a teacher, he was one of the toughest I ever had and was glad when I was done with American History.

[GuyFawkes38]

Your view is in the minority.

Like it or not, Fr. Graham IS Xavier.

Definitely (I'll admit, I'm not a big donor....in fact, I forgot to pay for my brick). so yeah, X is lucky to have him.

[XURunner85]

Father Graham actually taught me in high school back at Loyola Academy in the early 80's when he was just novis (or novitiate, something before you are ordained). Then he came to X when i was a senior at X.....

[BandAid]

Father Graham actually taught me in high school back at Loyola Academy in the early 80's when he was just novis (or novitiate, something before you are ordained). Then he came to X when i was a senior at X.....

From Jesut.org:


"The average length of Jesuit formation is about 10 years, depending on the man's background and course of studies.

• The novitiate is the first stage of Jesuit formation. The novice begins to live the life of the vows in community and learns the traditions, rules and expectations of the Society. During this time he makes the Spiritual Exercises in a thirty-day retreat and engages in a variety of “experiments,” some of which involve service to the very poor and needy. At the end of this two-year period of prayer, work and study, he pronounces perpetual vows of poverty, chastity and obedience either as a brother or as a scholastic who will prepare for priestly ordination.

• With these vows Jesuit scholastics and brothers normally begin a three-year period of philosophy and theology studies. If the man has not yet received a bachelor’s degree, he studies for that at this time. He may also be asked to use this time to begin graduate work in a field of specialization.

• Regency is the next period of formation. The Jesuit works for two or three years in a school or other approved apostolate and lives in an apostolic community.

• After regency, Jesuit scholastics begin an intensive three-year study of theology which leads to priestly ordination. This may be followed either by full-time apostolic work or specialized studies.

• After completing his theological studies and some further active ministry, the Jesuit completes his formal formation of prayer, guidance and studies with tertianship. After the tertianship period, the Jesuit is called to final vows in the Society of Jesus"

-He was probably in his regency stage, although it is possible he was a scholastic or novice at the time. If I recall correctly there are a few Jesuits at X who have yet to finish their tertianship.

[CinciX12]

Fr. Graham is without a doubt one of the most generous, nicest, just overall good human beings I think we have in this world.

[XURunner85]

AHHHH I think he was a scholastic, we had like 5 of them in our school....and I remember that term being used...thanks for the help

[An X Fan]

I genuinely like Fr. Graham, and while I have my issues, overall he has helped lead Xavier in some positive directions. As others have said the salary is largely an accounting thing, though I wouldn't classify Father's lifestyle as anywhere near poverty. He has a very high end apartment and drives a big SUV. I'm not judging, just sayin'...

[CinciX12]

I genuinely like Fr. Graham, and while I have my issues, overall he has helped lead Xavier in some positive directions. As others have said the salary is largely an accounting thing, though I wouldn't classify Father's lifestyle as anywhere near poverty. He has a very high end apartment and drives a big SUV. I'm not judging, just sayin'...

His apartment in the commons is laughable compared to some of the homes that other universities let their presidents live in.

[Masterofreality]

Like I said in my initial post, I am a big fan of Fr. Graham. This was not a post to be critical or confrontational. I agree he's underpaid. He sure should make more than the guy at udump.

I just thought that the story was interesting for the numbers and was confused by the John Carroll/Xavier accounting. That has been explained well by our illustrious posters.

[An X Fan]

His apartment in the commons is laughable compared to some of the homes that other universities let their presidents live in.

Fair enough, but they're lay people, and it ain't poverty (not that he has to be destitute, but Fr. Hoff lived in the Jesuit residence).

[BandAid]

Fair enough, but they're lay people, and it ain't poverty (not that he has to be destitute, but Fr. Hoff lived in the Jesuit residence).

Just clarifying: they're clergy, we're lay.

[Kahns Krazy]

If there were more Fr. Graham's in the world, it would be a much better place.

I had a chance to speak to him at the banquet 2 years ago. I really don't know him at all, but as he was walking by, I thanked him for the outstanding job he had done at Pablo's service which was a few weeks prior. He literally stopped in his tracks and spent about 5 minutes with me, chatting, sharing a great story, a valuable life lesson, and his gratitude to the whole Xavier community. The man is unreal. It's my best memory of that night.

Well, that and Snipe getting dessert on his sweatshirt before the salads had been served.

And getting a chance to share a table with BJ.

That was a freakin awesome night.

[An X Fan]

Just clarifying: they're clergy, we're lay.

Correct, the lay people are the presidents who live in big homes.

[Kahns Krazy]

Just clarifying: they're clergy, we're lay.

His "they" referred to the presidents of other Universities. I was confused at first as well.

[An X Fan]

I don't want to come off as a Fr. Graham hater. I was just adding a point to the initial discussion that Fr. Graham's salary goes back to the order as part of the vow of poverty. As KK noted, many would love the Jesuit vow of poverty.

[XU05and07]

I don't want to come off as a Fr. Graham hater. I was just adding a point to the initial discussion that Fr. Graham's salary goes back to the order as part of the vow of poverty. As KK noted, many would love the Jesuit vow of poverty.

The Jesuit priest, himself, takes a vow of poverty. The money doesn't go all the back to the order, but to the Jesuit residence and then the residence uses the funds as they deem fit. There are spending allowances for each of the members and all other matters are controlled through the residence. Fr. Graham's apartment is owned by the university and , combined with the Jesuit residence, supplied to him. He doesn't own that apartment, but he does have say in design, decor, and other things.

This apartment is not just for him. This is a place for meetings and should look nice if he were using the residence as a place for fundraising dinners and meetings. Fr. Graham also invites the students that live in the Commons to a dinner each year to keep in touch with the pulse of the university and get their input.

[Juice]

The new archbishop of the Cincinnati diocese just got a new home in Anderson paid by the diocese. The house is on the same street that Johnny Bench lives on. Needless to say, the thing is huge. Pilarczyk was living in a modest apartment downtown. The Anthanaeum on Beechmont also has living quarters for the archbishop.

The point of my rambling is that Fr. Graham is not doing anything that should be looked at skeptically.

[CinciX12]

I look at Fr. Graham's living situation more of how the president of a university lives, over how a Priest would live. Like someone stated above, when he meets with people in there, it has to be nice and convey a good impression of the university.

[Kahns Krazy]

Well put.

They should pick a different word. It's not really poverty

[blobfan]

My mother loves, damn near worships, Fr. Graham. If priests could marry, she'd make him husband #2.


I've heard first hand from multiple girls who have quite the crush on him.
It's the pecs. They just look good in that shirt and collar.

Not sure why this is a story. On one hand many here (including me) talk about how Fr. Graham is an important piece of what makes Xavier great. On the other hand we debate how much he makes. The guy has done nothing but good things for Xavier. ...
I didn't see any debate over his salary.

Fair enough, but they're lay people, and it ain't poverty (not that he has to be destitute, but Fr. Hoff lived in the Jesuit residence).
Yes, but BOTH had to live in amongst college students. They do not life in penthouses or large residences away from campus. They are immersed in the student population.

My guess is that if anyone had a moment of need, they could walk up to Fr Graham's door and he would open it, if he's there, day or night.

[BandAid]

The new archbishop of the Cincinnati diocese just got a new home in Anderson paid by the diocese. The house is on the same street that Johnny Bench lives on. Needless to say, the thing is huge. Pilarczyk was living in a modest apartment downtown. The Anthanaeum on Beechmont also has living quarters for the archbishop.

The point of my rambling is that Fr. Graham is not doing anything that should be looked at skeptically.

True, Schnurr bought a home, but I've heard from people close to him that he bought it right after he sold another diocessan (sp) property. Evidently, the two properties were pretty much a wash (except he will be using the new property, while the other was not used). Plus, diocessan (sp again) priests don't take vows of poverty.

[MuskieCinci]

I figure this is pretty relevant to this thread.

http://myxu.xu.edu/cp/tag.e0336c54415b1c4.render.userLayoutRootNode.uP?u P_root=root&uP_sparam=activeTab&activeTab=u22181l1s29&uP_tparam=frm&frm=frame

It is an interview with Father Graham that ran in this weeks Xavier Newswire. There are a lot f good lines in it, and I think this is one of the more honest and revealing, “So do I know people as well as I would like—no. But do I know people a lot better than other presidents do—yes.”

[vee4xu]

[QUOTE=blobfan;148419]It's the pecs. They just look good in that shirt and collar.

I didn't see any debate over his salary.


Ok, so enlighten me then. What exactly is a thread labeled Fr. Graham's Salary debating?

[CinciX12]

I figure this is pretty relevant to this thread.

http://myxu.xu.edu/cp/tag.e0336c54415b1c4.render.userLayoutRootNode.uP?u P_root=root&uP_sparam=activeTab&activeTab=u22181l1s29&uP_tparam=frm&frm=frame

It is an interview with Father Graham that ran in this weeks Xavier Newswire. There are a lot f good lines in it, and I think this is one of the more honest and revealing, “So do I know people as well as I would like—no. But do I know people a lot better than other presidents do—yes.”

That was a surprisingly good article, considering the source.

[Kahns Krazy]

Ok, so enlighten me then. What exactly is a thread labeled Fr. Graham's Salary debating?

I'd go with nothing. It's merely a statement of fact. If it were a debate, I'd expect the title to be more like "Fr. Graham's Salary. Is he worth it?" Even so, you'd have to have someone take the "No" side to call it a debate.

I share blobfan's reaction to your post. If anything, the rest of this thread is an affirmation of Fr. Graham's value to the university. I don't see a single post that could be interpreted that Fr. Graham is overpaid. Your reaction was a surprise to me.

[vee4xu]

I'd go with nothing. It's merely a statement of fact. If it were a debate, I'd expect the title to be more like "Fr. Graham's Salary. Is he worth it?" Even so, you'd have to have someone take the "No" side to call it a debate.

I share blobfan's reaction to your post. If anything, the rest of this thread is an affirmation of Fr. Graham's value to the university. I don't see a single post that could be interpreted that Fr. Graham is overpaid. Your reaction was a surprise to me.

Thanks for chiming in on blob's behalf. Surely he appreciates it. And sorry to surprise you. I'll try to do better next time.

[waggy]

Surely he appreciates it.

Is Blobfans hubby OK with this "development"?

[STL_XUfan]

It's the pecs. They just look good in that shirt and collar.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q45rzAvmQt0

Fr. Graham from Xavier the musical

[Kahns Krazy]

Thanks for chiming in on blob's behalf. Surely he appreciates it. And sorry to surprise you. I'll try to do better next time.

Defensive much?

[American X]

Thanks for chiming in on blob's behalf. Surely he appreciates it.

And I'm sure she appreciates being called a he.

[vee4xu]

Defensive much?

No actually it was sarcasm. I have no reason to be defensive about anything with anyone, including the jedi.

[vee4xu]

And I'm sure she appreciates being called a he.

I simply don't pay enough attention to determine who is what gender on this board. If she's offended, then let her say so and I will happily to apologize.

[Kahns Krazy]

What kind of a person acknowledges that he's made a misktake, but offers only to apologize if he's asked to?

[vee4xu]

What kind of a person acknowledges that he's made a misktake, but offers only to apologize if he's asked to?

Surprising somome who seemingly has all the answers doesn't have one here? Let me help you. Once again you missed my nuance. AmEx and Waggy advocated on her behalf, but blob had nothing to say about my inadvertent mistake. Obviously she isn't as worried about the matter as her advocates. Howeever, if she is I am happy to respond to her.

[Kahns Krazy]

Oh, I have the answer, Richard.

[vee4xu]

Oh, I have the answer, Richard.

I expected the eventual resorting to name calling. That's how it goes I suppose when the debate isn't going your way and your out of ideas. Nicely played.

[Kahns Krazy]

I didn't call you names. I simply don't pay enough attention to determine who is what name on this board.

I guess I made a mistake and called you the wrong thing, but since you didn't say you are offended, I guess there's no need to apologize.

[vee4xu]

I didn't call you names. I simply don't pay enough attention to determine who is what name on this board.

I guess I made a mistake and called you the wrong thing, but since you didn't say you are offended, I guess there's no need to apologize.

Yikes. Don't jump dude.

[waggy]

I simply don't pay enough attention to determine who is what gender on this board.

We know. Which is why we mods (or at least I) attempted to use it as a release valve...

[theprofessor]

As a faculty member, I can say that Fr. Graham has been a good leader as he wraps up his first decade as president. There are a few overpaid employees at X, but I don't think Fr. Graham is one of them. (incidentally, all non profits are required to submit the salaries of their highest paid employees - available from guidestar.org).

[GuyFawkes38]

As a faculty member, I can say that Fr. Graham has been a good leader as he wraps up his first decade as president. There are a few overpaid employees at X, but I don't think Fr. Graham is one of them. (incidentally, all non profits are required to submit the salaries of their highest paid employees - available from guidestar.org).

dish out the dirt. who's overpaid.

[blobfan]

Ok, so enlighten me then. What exactly is a thread labeled Fr. Graham's Salary debating?


Thanks for chiming in on blob's behalf. Surely he appreciates it. And sorry to surprise you. I'll try to do better next time.
Since Blob was offline this weekend nursing a head cold, she does appreciate someone else responding on her behalf, especially when it's the same response she would have had. Essentially "Fr Graham's Salary" is as indicative of thread content as "XU v NKU postgame." It describes the subject matter but gives no indication as exact content or opinions given. Anyone opening the thread should read individual posts to ascertain if a specific opinion is given.


Is Blobfans hubby OK with this "development"?
As for gender confusion, neither I nor my hubby have an doubt as to my gender and beyond that it really isn't critical to anyone else, is it? And since that mistake has never been made but someone I met in person, I'm not likely to be offended by the confusion. Besides, 'Blobfan' is pretty gender neutral as far as board names go and I'm just happy that no one here has accused me of being a silly 9-year-old (yes, that happened on another board when I had the audacity to suggest we NOT boo the opposing team's coach).

[vee4xu]

Blob thanks for responding on your own. I respect your opinion regarding the thread, but respectfully disagree with it. However this being a chat board, intent in response is not always obvious. I read the thread title and responses in one way and you did so in a different way. Who is right or wrong is not really relevant. What is relevant is that we both voiced an opinion and they differ. As to your being female, I am happy to see that you are not offended by my inadvertently referring to you as he. As I noted I don't pay attention to gender of posters. That doesn't matter to me when ever I respond. I am happy that xavier fans of all ages, both genders and varying opinions post here. The variety created by this diversity is what helps make this board as good as it is.

Hope you continue to feel better.

[PMI]

Blob thanks for responding on your own. I respect your opinion regarding the thread, but respectfully disagree with it. However this being a chat board, intent in response is not always obvious. I read the thread title and responses in one way and you did so in a different way. Who is right or wrong is not really relevant. What is relevant is that we both voiced an opinion and they differ. As to your being female, I am happy to see that you are not offended by my inadvertently referring to you as he. As I noted I don't pay attention to gender of posters. That doesn't matter to me when ever I respond. I am happy that xavier fans of all ages, both genders and varying opinions post here. The variety created by this diversity is what helps make this board as good as it is.

Hope you continue to feel better.

Careful, this could be taken as offensive by the hermaphrodites and asexuals on this board.

[blobfan]

Careful, this could be taken as offensive by the hermaphrodites and asexuals on this board.

As you are the only one to speak up on that point, do you wish to share something with the group?

[GuyFawkes38]

Some news from SLU:
http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2013/05/04/biondi-stepping-down-as-slu-president/

There are some rumors floating around that Graham might take the position. Who knows.

[MuskiePimp23]

Good. I hope to hell Graham gets the hell out of Xavier. We need a change in leadership at the top.

[Masterofreality]

Good. I hope to hell Graham gets the hell out of Xavier. We need a change in leadership at the top.

Why? Because a basketball player didn't wrap up? That's it?

Pray tell what else has Graham screwed up on?

And why would Graham want to leave?

[MuskiePimp23]

Why? Because a basketball player didn't wrap up? That's it?

Pray tell what else has Graham screwed up on?

And why would Graham want to leave?

There is a laundry list of things that he has screwed up on. I have gone into it in many other threads before so I'm not going to repeat myself. I can't stand Fr. Graham and hope for change at the top of the University's leadership. There are a lot of folks who feel the same way I do.

As far as him wanting to leave, who knows what he wants, but I hope he leaves so we can get a better leader to lead this University. Fr. Hoff was a much better leader than Graham in my opinion.

[Masterofreality]

There is a laundry list of things that he has screwed up on. I have gone into it in many other threads before so I'm not going to repeat myself. I can't stand Fr. Graham and hope for change at the top of the University's leadership. There are a lot of folks who feel the same way I do.

As far as him wanting to leave, who knows what he wants, but I hope he leaves so we can get a better leader to lead this University. Fr. Hoff was a much better leader than Graham in my opinion.

Well, if you're going to compare Top Jimmy to anybody, you'll never get a match. Not fair.

It will be a long, long long time before someone like him comes down the pike again.

[muskienick]

Good. I hope to hell Graham gets the hell out of Xavier. We need a change in leadership at the top.

It would seem to me that if you wanted Fr. Graham to be seriously considered for the SLU job you'd be shutting the *%#@ up now! The more whining like yours that is floating around the Internet, the more the folks at SLU might actually believe it and discredit his interest in assuming leadership at their University.

[xudash]

There is a laundry list of things that he has screwed up on. I have gone into it in many other threads before so I'm not going to repeat myself. I can't stand Fr. Graham and hope for change at the top of the University's leadership. There are a lot of folks who feel the same way I do.

As far as him wanting to leave, who knows what he wants, but I hope he leaves so we can get a better leader to lead this University. Fr. Hoff was a much better leader than Graham in my opinion.

...and then there is the vast majority of people who feel otherwise.

[MuskiePimp23]

It would seem to me that if you wanted Fr. Graham to be seriously considered for the SLU job you'd be shutting the *%#@ up now! The more whining like yours that is floating around the Internet, the more the folks at SLU might actually believe it and discredit his interest in assuming leadership at their University.

No, I am talking with my wallet, withholding contributions to the University until he goes.

[MuskiePimp23]

...and then there is the vast majority of people who feel otherwise.

So you say. I love all the Graham defenders on here. Trust me, there are a LOT of people who don't like Graham and almost none of them are die-hard enough to post on a message board.

[PM Thor]

...and then there is the vast majority of people who feel otherwise.

X2. It's easy to say "there are a lot of folks" when in reality Father Graham has been at X for decades. He's doing it right and there hasn't been any type of movement otherwise. The Father abides.

[PM Thor]

So there are a LOT of people who don't like Graham? Where are they then? Where are they on the board that matters? If they aren't die hard enough to be on a message board then they probably aren't die hard enough to donate, die hard enough to influence the university. I hate on the Bengals all the time, but I don't matter, because I don't buy season tickets, don't go to their games. I think that's pretty much the same kind of people you are referring to Pimp.

[muskienick]

So you say. I love all the Graham defenders on here. Trust me, there are a LOT of people who don't like Graham and almost none of them are die-hard enough to post on a message board.

If you ever went to a Muskie home game and saw the students chant "Father Graham" over and over again until he finally got up and twirled his sweater around his head and pointed with love to the students, you might not have the same opinion of him.

There are many people out here who respect and love the guy. Has he never made a mistake during his tenure as President of Xavier? I doubt it! But it is obvious to most of us on this site (at least) that he loves Xavier, its students, and its history and will work as hard as he can to make it the best possible Xavier University that he can.

If you think otherwise, bless you anyway. You are permitted to believe what you must.

[Masterofreality]

There is a laundry list of things that he has screwed up on. I have gone into it in many other threads before so I'm not going to repeat myself. I can't stand Fr. Graham and hope for change at the top of the University's leadership. There are a lot of folks who feel the same way I do.

As far as him wanting to leave, who knows what he wants, but I hope he leaves so we can get a better leader to lead this University. Fr. Hoff was a much better leader than Graham in my opinion.

Yeah, maybe we can get Curren from udump, who has made so many right decisions that floors are caving in in University owned housing and the Cryers are stuck in the Atlantic 10.

be careful what you wish for.

[Kahns Krazy]

No, I am talking with my wallet, withholding contributions to the University until he goes.

Just out of curiosity, how much were you donating before Fr. Graham became president? I normally wouldn't ask, but you started the question. Maybe we can put a list together of former contributors and show the university just how much support they are missing out on.

[Kahns Krazy]

So there are a LOT of people who don't like Graham? Where are they then? Where are they on the board that matters? If they aren't die hard enough to be on a message board then they probably aren't die hard enough to donate, die hard enough to influence the university. I hate on the Bengals all the time, but I don't matter, because I don't buy season tickets, don't go to their games. I think that's pretty much the same kind of people you are referring to Pimp.

I don't say this a lot, but Thor is right. ^

[kmcrawfo]

I don't say this a lot, but Thor is right. ^

The vast majority of major donors are not on this or any other message board, or if they are they are very infrequent visitors and even more infrequent posters.

[Kahns Krazy]

The vast majority of major donors are not on this or any other message board, or if they are they are very infrequent visitors and even more infrequent posters.

No argument there. I was agreeing with the sentiment that the major donors are not represented by "pimp"'s comment. The major donors that I know do not share the anti-Graham sentiment that the current, more vocal, primarily younger crowd is pushing.

Despite Pimp's withholding of his significant financial support, I don't think the University is seeing a lot of backlash from the last couple years.

[muskienick]

The vast majority of major donors are not on this or any other message board, or if they are they are very infrequent visitors and even more infrequent posters.

I think a decent number of posters would be interested to know what people consider to be a "major donor" to Xavier?

I'd have to think that many of us donate quite a bit in the form of seat license fees, Annual Fund, and AFO. On the other hand, if you're talking about having one's name up on the big board at the top of the steps in the Cintas Center, that is a pretty elite list. And even if every one of those folks visited this board and posted regularly, that number wouldn't be large.

[coasterville95]

True that - I know there are several of us on this board that hold premium seating that runs into 4 figures a year. Add to that the cost of season tickets. (almost another 4 figures), anything we buy on campus (merchandise, food, beverages) and that is before we even get to AFO or Annual Fund. (Or premium seat license in lieu of AFO and/or annual fund as the situation may be) It was a nice touch a few years back when the policy was changed where premim seating fees started counting towards the donor honor roll that gets published every year.

Then there is that whole nother level that gets their name on the plaque and buildings named after them, and all that.

[kmcrawfo]

True that - I know there are several of us on this board that hold premium seating that runs into 4 figures a year. Add to that the cost of season tickets. (almost another 4 figures), anything we buy on campus (merchandise, food, beverages) and that is before we even get to AFO or Annual Fund. (Or premium seat license in lieu of AFO and/or annual fund as the situation may be) It was a nice touch a few years back when the policy was changed where premim seating fees started counting towards the donor honor roll that gets published every year.

Then there is that whole nother level that gets their name on the plaque and buildings named after them, and all that.

I'd consider a major donor well past 5 figures per anum. Obviously, names on buildings and such push past 7 figure donations.

This is not to discount the importance/value that premium and non-premium seat holders have for Xavier, but their value is more in volume/quantity and they come/go with more fluidity. I believe major donors to X often give beyond the scope of the basketball and athletics programs.

Obviously, all donors and ticket holders should be held in high regards by the Xavier Administration. It would be foolish for them to not do so.

[LA Muskie]

While season tix and premium seat licenses are much appreciated by the university (and largely go into its general fund) they are nevertheless tied pretty closely (and clearly) to the basketball program. True, many major donors have season tix, pay premium seat licenses, and belong to AFO. But that's not all they do -- they contribute beyond athletics. Simply put, the university is most interested in hearing from those who contribute to (and are interested in) the university as a whole, and not just its basketball team. As well is should be.

[kmcrawfo]

While season tix and premium seat licenses are much appreciated by the university (and largely go into its general fund) they are nevertheless tied pretty closely (and clearly) to the basketball program. True, many major donors have season tix, pay premium seat licenses, and belong to AFO. But that's not all they do -- they contribute beyond athletics. Simply put, the university is most interested in hearing from those who contribute to (and are interested in) the university as a whole, and not just its basketball team. As well is should be.

This is exactly correct and a more clear explanation than the one I provided as to why these people (aside from a few) are not likely to be found surfing and posting on xavier hoops message boards....

[GuyFawkes38]

Whoever made Father Graham do that video apology and force a Mack pregame apology....Now that's a big donor. And when I was at Xavier, that single donor who told Father Graham to shutdown the Vagina Monologues.....I would also consider that a big donor.

[xeus]

No, I am talking with my wallet, withholding contributions to the University until he goes.

You aren't "talking" to the University. You're whispering to yourself.

[danaandvictory]

You aren't "talking" to the University. You're whispering to yourself.

You don't respect the lucrative opportunities available in the pimping field. Although not easy, many pimps make a very credible living.

[DC Muskie]

that single donor who told Father Graham to shutdown the Vagina Monologues.....

I would think they would have shut down the Vagina Monologues simply because it is a terrible play.

[GuyFawkes38]

I would think they would have shut down the Vagina Monologues simply because it is a terrible play.

Well, can't argue with that. It is truly awful.

But watching that unfold and watching how Father Graham handled the situation put a bad taste in my mouth. I'm sure if you weren't a Xavier student at the time, you probably never heard of the affair and probably don't care. But that's sort of the point. Graham refused to stand up for us. He took the easy way out and supported a large donor. I still remember his line when he met with us "I'm not going to fall on my sword for this."

[xudash]

Well, can't argue with that. It is truly awful.

But watching that unfold and watching how Father Graham handled the situation put a bad taste in my mouth. I'm sure if you weren't a Xavier student at the time, you probably never heard of the affair and probably don't care. But that's sort of the point. Graham refused to stand up for us. He took the easy way out and supported a large donor. I still remember his line when he met with us "I'm not going to fall on my sword for this."

So this was about a very distasteful, bad play wrapped in the freedom of speech thing versus a lot of money? $40k+ a year and students couldn't figure that one out? Youth.

[xubrew]

Well, can't argue with that. It is truly awful.

But watching that unfold and watching how Father Graham handled the situation put a bad taste in my mouth. I'm sure if you weren't a Xavier student at the time, you probably never heard of the affair and probably don't care. But that's sort of the point. Graham refused to stand up for us. He took the easy way out and supported a large donor. I still remember his line when he met with us "I'm not going to fall on my sword for this."

that occurred the year after I graduated, but I was still living in Cincinnati and still knew several people who were at Xavier. Didn't they run an end-around?? They didn't host it as an official school play, but they did host it as a class and claim it fell under the category of academic freedom. I thought they did put it on, and it was in the auditorium and everything....it's just that it was officially a class and not a play.

Anyway, I don't donate. I'm sure I make less money than your average XU grad. I live a comfortable and satisfying life, I like what I do for a living, and I wouldn't change careers, but I do live at an even lower standard of poverty than what many Jesuits live under. So, with that in mind, when it comes time to decide to make a big donation, or take a vacation in Europe for two weeks, I'm going to Europe for two weeks. Many can afford to do both and would never miss it. I can't. I can only do one, and damnit, I'm going on vacation. I'm selfish like that.

All that being said, Fr. Graham is a fantastic university president. To this day I've never been at a university where the president interacted with the students the way Graham does. If you believe the school is there for the students, which I do, that means a lot. I personally would not want to see him go.

[GuyFawkes38]

that occurred the year after I graduated, but I was still living in Cincinnati and still knew several people who were at Xavier. Didn't they run an end-around?? They didn't host it as an official school play, but they did host it as a class and claim it fell under the category of academic freedom. I thought they did put it on, and it was in the auditorium and everything....it's just that it was officially a class and not a play.


Yep. In the end, he sort of caved on a technicality, leaving both sides angry. It was handled very badly.

[coasterville95]

Major Donor? I don't consider myself to be one. Major Donor impies a donor that gives significantly more than the average donor.

A 5 figure donation? That could be a good defining line. For a person if you only net in 5 figures a year, a 5-figure a year donation is probably not practical unless you have real low cost of living combined with a real strong passion for Xavier. So basically we are looking at corporations and those with a net income of 6-figures or more. And, yes those are the ones I would consider to be major donors.

At the same time, don't discount the money brought in by lower donations and PSL's. Even if they did come in directed to Men's Basketball, basketball is a revenue producing activity. Xavier is a non-profit, which should mean any excess money has to go somewhere, be it endowment, faculty, services, equipment, etc. Every little bit helps, just remember that when the tough decisions need to be made, you have a "little bit" voice.

If Fr. Graham were to leave, it would be a very, very, very sad day for the University.

[blobfan]

Maybe I'm biased because I had him as a teacher but I like Father Graham a lot and believe he is a moral man with the best interests of the students in mind and heart. As head of a Jesuit university, he is bound by Jesuit and Catholic dictates as to what he can do so I cut him a little slack around such things as canceling plays like the Vagina Monologues. I don't see why he'd want to go to SLU when he has invested so much of his career in Cincinnati and Xavier. I hope he retires from here.

[xudash]

Major Donor? I don't consider myself to be one. Major Donor impies a donor that gives significantly more than the average donor.

A 5 figure donation? That could be a good defining line. For a person if you only net in 5 figures a year, a 5-figure a year donation is probably not practical unless you have real low cost of living combined with a real strong passion for Xavier. So basically we are looking at corporations and those with a net income of 6-figures or more. And, yes those are the ones I would consider to be major donors.

At the same time, don't discount the money brought in by lower donations and PSL's. Even if they did come in directed to Men's Basketball, basketball is a revenue producing activity. Xavier is a non-profit, which should mean any excess money has to go somewhere, be it endowment, faculty, services, equipment, etc. Every little bit helps, just remember that when the tough decisions need to be made, you have a "little bit" voice.

If Fr. Graham were to leave, it would be a very, very, very sad day for the University.

You got that right.

[SM#24]

Xavier is a non-profit, which should mean any excess money has to go somewhere, be it endowment, faculty, services, equipment, etc.
Unfortunately, in today's environment, too much of this excess or additional revenue is all going into athletic facilities and coaches salaries in the arms race that has no ceiling.

[xudash]

Unfortunately, in today's environment, too much of this excess or additional revenue is all going into athletic facilities and coaches salaries in the arms race that has no ceiling.

I believe it has a ceiling for us - for Xavier.

First and foremost, we don't have football, so the dollars saved there are staggering when compared to what the BCS programs are chasing.

Otherwise, specific to Xavier, we've made the investments, for the most part. Jobs one and two for the immediate future are endowment growth and coming up with a solution for Alter Hall, assuming the east campus plans are still in motion.

[SM#24]

Everyone has their own ceiling, but the moment you think you have great facilities, great accomodations for the players, think your coach is making plenty of money, you soon find out none of it is enough. The bar on coaches salaries (head and asst.) and amenties for the players goes up every year, and I'm guessing at a greater rate than revenues.

[LA Muskie]

This is exactly correct and a more clear explanation than the one I provided as to why these people (aside from a few) are not likely to be found surfing and posting on xavier hoops message boards....
Expanding on this, one of the reasons they aren't posting on these message boards is that they don't need them. Money buys access, and truly major donors have tons of access. If they want information about the program you know where they get it? That's right. The Program.

[LA Muskie]

Major Donor? I don't consider myself to be one. Major Donor impies a donor that gives significantly more than the average donor.

A 5 figure donation? That could be a good defining line. For a person if you only net in 5 figures a year, a 5-figure a year donation is probably not practical unless you have real low cost of living combined with a real strong passion for Xavier. So basically we are looking at corporations and those with a net income of 6-figures or more. And, yes those are the ones I would consider to be major donors.

At the same time, don't discount the money brought in by lower donations and PSL's. Even if they did come in directed to Men's Basketball, basketball is a revenue producing activity. Xavier is a non-profit, which should mean any excess money has to go somewhere, be it endowment, faculty, services, equipment, etc. Every little bit helps, just remember that when the tough decisions need to be made, you have a "little bit" voice.

If Fr. Graham were to leave, it would be a very, very, very sad day for the University.
I couldn't agree more with this -- especially the bold part. To be clear, I didn't mean to minimize the effect of season tix, PSL's and AFO membership. They are important and they help a ton. But people whose donations are targeted to The Program are not steering university policy. They're not even at the table.

[GuyFawkes38]

Doesn't it seem like in the past 20 years we've heard about nearly every university making great strides? I've heard that about OSU, NKU, UC, UD, OSU.

So what's exactly going on. Why does every university seem to be expanding and renovating their campuses. IMHO, there's a lot of money flowing around the past 20 years for higher ed. It's easy to forget how different the situation was in 1970's when even Ivy League schools like Harvard faced financial difficulties (now they have a 20+ billion dollar endowment).

So yes, I am a little skeptical of posters who claim Graham's greatness. Has his success been unique compared to his peers?

[Kahns Krazy]

Doesn't it seem like in the past 20 years we've heard about nearly every university making great strides? I've heard that about OSU, NKU, UC, UD, OSU.

So what's exactly going on. Why does every university seem to be expanding and renovating their campuses. IMHO, there's a lot of money flowing around the past 20 years for higher ed. It's easy to forget how different the situation was in 1970's when even Ivy League schools like Harvard faced financial difficulties (now they have a 20+ billion dollar endowment).

So yes, I discount Graham's accomplishments because I don't think his accomlishments have been unique compared to his peers.

With the exception of NKU in that list, every other school you mention started from a strong base. Yes, the landscape of the University experience has changed in the last 20 years for a wide variety of schools, but XU started in the hole. X was a drive-thru glorified next four years of high school. I vividly remember taking one of my college exams (SAT/ACT) at X in the late 80's and thinking it was a real dump. The school and campus today bear little resemblance to 30 years ago. Fr. Graham wasn't all of that, of course, but the university administration has been consistently strong, and has managed to retain its identity and integrity throughout that massive change.

Many people view the treatment of Wells as an indictment of the current administration, and I still disagree. While the whole situation was unfortunate, I think sending the message that attending Xavier, whether as a student athlete or otherwise, is a privilege and not a right. You are held to a higher standard here. That is core to the identity that will serve Xavier long after Fr. Graham has moved on. I believe many that make significant contributions to the University agree.

[DC Muskie]

I worked at Loyola In Baltimore for a year, and I can tell you they are nowhere near where Xavier is in terms of development over the past 30 years. And both schools share the same history and makeup.

[PMI]

I worked at Loyola In Baltimore for a year, and I can tell you they are nowhere near where Xavier is in terms of development over the past 30 years. And both schools share the same history and makeup.

They do have a pretty nice campus too and would kick our ass in lacrosse, so they got that going for them...

[xudash]

With the exception of NKU in that list, every other school you mention started from a strong base. Yes, the landscape of the University experience has changed in the last 20 years for a wide variety of schools, but XU started in the hole. X was a drive-thru glorified next four years of high school. I vividly remember taking one of my college exams (SAT/ACT) at X in the late 80's and thinking it was a real dump. The school and campus today bear little resemblance to 30 years ago. Fr. Graham wasn't all of that, of course, but the university administration has been consistently strong, and has managed to retain its identity and integrity throughout that massive change.

Many people view the treatment of Wells as an indictment of the current administration, and I still disagree. While the whole situation was unfortunate, I think sending the message that attending Xavier, whether as a student athlete or otherwise, is a privilege and not a right. You are held to a higher standard here. That is core to the identity that will serve Xavier long after Fr. Graham has moved on. I believe many that make significant contributions to the University agree.

Can't seem to give you private reps, but consider the public reps poured on as strongly as possible.

Guy, really?

[GuyFawkes38]

I haven't seen the X campus before the mid 90's and I've spent most of my time on campus in the 00's. So I admit, I might not have the best perspective on the progress X has made.

[LA Muskie]

I haven't seen the X campus before the mid 90's and I've spent most of my time on campus in the 00's. So I admit, I might not have the best perspective on the progress X has made.
I first "toured" XU's "campus" in 1991. I use those two terms in quotations very loosely. Simply put, XU was the ugliest most outdated of all the schools I considered. It was a HUGE negative. But for Xavier's proverbial offer I could not refuse, there is no chance in hell I would have moved 500 miles away from home to live there. It simply would not have happened. Nor should it have.

The reformation started while I was there and is owed largely to Fr. Hoff and his vision, along with many visionaries on the Board of Trustees and their well-heeled initial donors. Between 1992 and my graduation in 1996, the campus seemed transformed, but in fact it really was just the start of something that was literally unimaginable at that time.

I now travel to Cincinnati at least twice per year for meetings at XU. Thinking back to the beginnings of my relationship with Xavier, the pride that I experience when I walk onto campus now simply cannot be contained. Aside from certain remaining deficiencies that are in line to be remedied (the Rec Center being foremost), you would be hard-pressed to find a better campus environment -- melding history with modern amenities -- anywhere in the country. I understand that sounds exaggerated and boastful. It really is not.

Fr. Hoff and his Board were the initial visionaries. But make no mistake about it: Fr. Graham has executed on that vision, and then some. He was in on the ground floor. He was Fr. Hoff's hand-picked protege. And he has taken the baton and run farther and faster than anyone -- even Fr. Hoff -- ever could have imagined.

Is Fr. Graham without his faults? I'm sure he is not. Are any of us? That said, he has been a devoted, loyal, and immeasurably successful captain. And no one -- and I mean no one -- bleeds any more Xavier Blue than he does.

[xudash]

I first "toured" XU's "campus" in 1991. I use those two terms in quotations very loosely. Simply put, XU was the ugliest most outdated of all the schools I considered. It was a HUGE negative. But for Xavier's proverbial offer I could not refuse, there is no chance in hell I would have moved 500 miles away from home to live there. It simply would not have happened. Nor should it have.

The reformation started while I was there and is owed largely to Fr. Hoff and his vision, along with many visionaries on the Board of Trustees and their well-heeled initial donors. Between 1992 and my graduation in 1996, the campus seemed transformed, but in fact it really was just the start of something that was literally unimaginable at that time.

I now travel to Cincinnati at least twice per year for meetings at XU. Thinking back to the beginnings of my relationship with Xavier, the pride that I experience when I walk onto campus now simply cannot be contained. Aside from certain remaining deficiencies that are in line to be remedied (the Rec Center being foremost), you would be hard-pressed to find a better campus environment -- melding history with modern amenities -- anywhere in the country. I understand that sounds exaggerated and boastful. It really is not.

Fr. Hoff and his Board were the initial visionaries.

Is Fr. Graham without his faults? I'm sure he is not. Are any of us? That said, he has been a devoted, loyal, and immeasurably successful captain. And no one -- and I mean no one -- bleeds any more Xavier Blue than he does.

Excellent post.

A few of your points warrant repeating:

Between 1992 and my graduation in 1996, the campus seemed transformed, but in fact it really was just the start of something that was literally unimaginable at that time. - - If I recall correctly, the Cintas Center was made public - announced - in 1996. Obviously, it opened in 2000. I'm not sure the Gallagher Center was even on the radar screen in 1996. Those two properties alone changed things dramatically, yet even those projects went to the background a little when the Quad was announced later on.

Aside from certain remaining deficiencies that are in line to be remedied (the Rec Center being foremost), you would be hard-pressed to find a better campus environment -- melding history with modern amenities -- anywhere in the country. I understand that sounds exaggerated and boastful. It really is not. - - I've been to a lot of campus settings over the years, from Ivy League schools to regional public schools to small liberal arts colleges and to B1G schools and everything in between, assuming you can get between all that. It isn't exaggerated at all. It certainly isn't boastful. You want to hang a cloud over Xavier's campus? The only opportunity for that is to ding its location. It isn't exactly Chestnut Hill (Boston College) or Radnor Township (Villanova). Then again, it was pretty solid when the Jesuits moved it there in the 20's. Yet you have to be careful about this one as well, especially given what is inevitable with respect to continuing development around the campus. Yes, the recreation center is a key requirement. Now replacing Alter Hall is a key replacement; classroom capacity has become an issue. They'll work all this out.

But make no mistake about it: Fr. Graham has executed on that vision, and then some. He was in on the ground floor. He was Fr. Hoff's hand-picked protege. And he has taken the baton and run farther and faster than anyone -- even Fr. Hoff -- ever could have imagined. - - If you don't understand this, then please stop commenting on this topic. The only person that comes off looking badly on this one is the person who simply isn't close enough to the school to know, within reason and through connections, if not at the BoT level, that this is reality. Graham was Hoff's protege FOR A REASON. Graham recently re-upped for another decade.

No one is perfect. But Father Graham has proven to be a very capable executive and leader.

Final comments: if you look at it from the vantage point of 10 year increments, beginning with 1990, you see truly transformative change each decade - 1990 to 2000 and 2000 to 2010. By the time we get to 2020, Xavier Square will have materialized from whatever it now looks like on blueprints, and a new Alter Hall will be up. You think the place is strong right now? Good, but get ready for more masterstrokes. Beyond the brick and mortar, X's leadership will position the place for whatever it should be capable of delivering on an exceptional basis as far as its educational offerings are concerned. Finally, the one thing that really kinda pisses me off from anything else, stemming from a lack of vision and leadership in the 70's, is the endowment. The good news, at least to me is two fold: [1] The place plays as though it is well heeled, in terms of its look, as we've been discussing a lot here, and feel, and [2] They know how to raise money now and they're beginning to raise gobs of it. Even on this issue some perspective is required, because I believe the University has pursued around $250 million in construction since the Cintas Center.

[DC Muskie]

Reps LA. Reps.

[paulxu]

Final comments: if you look at it from the vantage point of 10 year increments, beginning with 1990,

Just try and imagine what the vantage point is if you (like a few of us) look at it from the vantage point of the 60's.
(Or even 50's in Q's case)

nb: Dana's still looks the same of course.

[sweet16]

Just try and imagine what the vantage point is if you (like a few of us) look at it from the vantage point of the 60's.
(Or even 50's in Q's case)

nb: Dana's still looks the same of course.

Not to minimize all the wonderful things that have occurred on campus, but for all the younger folks who never had the opportunity to drive down Dana or around Victory Pkwy (by Walnut Hills) and see the football stadium appear in front of you........you missed something pretty cool.

[muskienick]

Not to minimize all the wonderful things that have occurred on campus, but for all the younger folks who never had the opportunity to drive down Dana or around Victory Pkwy (by Walnut Hills) and see the football stadium appear in front of you........you missed something pretty quaint.

I fixed that last word for you. The stadium was not exactly a source of pride for most of us who had season tickets to watch Muskie football. It was our home field and if you had a huge amount of crisco and a shoe horn you might have been able to jam 10,000-11,000 people into its very uncomfortable wood-plank seating. In that regard, it wasn't unlike most seats in the Bearcats' stadium and basketball arena.

'Nuff said!

[nickgyp]

MN:

The football stadium was easily the prettiest part of the campus as you came up on Victory Parkway. The Eastern facade with its iron gated portals was actually very neat (quaint or cool will do as well).

[GoMuskies]

you would be hard-pressed to find a better campus environment -- melding history with modern amenities -- anywhere in the country.

Xavier is nice now, and the change is unbelievable (my first tour was in '93). But that's lunacy.

[X-man]

Xavier is nice now, and the change is unbelievable (my first tour was in '93). But that's lunacy.

I agree. As nice as Xavier's campus has become since I came here in 1984, it doesn't hold a candle to either my undergraduate (University of Vermont) or graduate (Brown) school campuses.

[DC Muskie]

I think you'd be hard pressed to find a better campus environment - melding history with modern amenities- anywhere in the city of Cincinnati.

[LA Muskie]

I meant to put an emphasis on the modern amenities. Have you folks been to the new business school? I believe we are either the only school, or one of a very, very select few, with its own state-of-the-art trading floor, complete with Bloomberg terminals.

[X-man]

I meant to put an emphasis on the modern amenities. Have you folks been to the new business school? I believe we are either the only school, or one of a very, very select few, with its own state-of-the-art trading floor, complete with Bloomberg terminals.

My office is IN the new business school, and I agree that it is a very attractive building. I love teaching there. The Bloomberg Room isn't unique to Xavier, but Xavier has the largest trading room of any unviversity in the country.