Kanye vs. Serena

[XUglow]

OK, who wins your bad behavior award this week. If you have other nominees, please let me know.

Kanye can probably get away with blaming alcohol. I don't think Serena can get away with saying that she was drunk.

[GoMuskies]

I don't think Serena can get away with saying that she was drunk.

She was getting stomped by a woman with an 18 month old. I think maybe she could.

[bobbiemcgee]

I'm with the Pres. on this one.....never really heard of the guy but guess he's getting his 15 mins.

[BBC 08]

Kanye's a gay fish.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I'm with the Pres. on this one.....never really heard of the guy but guess he's getting his 15 mins.

Kanye is a dick, but he isnt just getting his 15mins he is a very famous artisit.

[vee4xu]

Idiots both of them. At least Serena can claim some previous redeeming quality and ended up committing career suicide with her escapades. Until now she's had a good career and so far as I know has been a pretty good citizen. Kayne West is a punk-bitch who has no redeeming qualities and no career for which to commit suicide. In the end, Serena did more damage to herself because she will be defined for this moment no matter what she does or has accomplished, a la spitters Robbie Alomar and Bill Romanowski. Unfortunately, she will probably drag Venus down with her to some degree. I do think that Serena should have been disqualified from competing in the doubles tournament, which she and Venus ended up winning.

[waggy]

The problem with pro tennis is all the degenerates.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Idiots both of them. At least Serena can claim some previous redeeming quality and ended up committing career suicide with her escapades. Until now she's had a good career and so far as I know has been a pretty good citizen. Kayne West is a punk-bitch who has no redeeming qualities and no career for which to commit suicide. In the end, Serena did more damage to herself because she will be defined for this moment no matter what she does or has accomplished, a la spitters Robbie Alomar and Bill Romanowski. Unfortunately, she will probably drag Venus down with her to some degree. I do think that Serena should have been disqualified from competing in the doubles tournament, which she and Venus ended up winning.

I really disagree with your take on Serena. i dont think this will be her legacy lots of athletes have done similar things and worse. Andy Roddick seems to scream at officials every match. I dont think this brings her career down and I really think its forgotten in a few months.

[vee4xu]

Time will tell Poz. It's one thing to yell at an official. It's quite another to melt down, threaten to shove a ball down the official's "f--ing throat", walk away, come back again and threaten bodily harm. Naw, I don't think this one is going away anytime soon.

[nuts4xu]

I would like to know if it is physically possible for Serena to shove that fucking ball down that line judge's throat, as she wanted to do. Is that even possible?

Serena always looked like the Predator. She seemes to be a very strong broad. I would not run my mouth at her, especially when she is pissed. She is strong enough that I think she could crush my skull with her butt cheeks.

That is not the way I want to go.

[vee4xu]

I would like to know if it is physically possible for Serena to shove that fucking ball down that line judge's throat, as she wanted to do. Is that even possible?

Serena always looked like the Predator. She seemes to be a very strong broad. I would not run my mouth at her, especially when she is pissed. She is strong enough that I think she could crush my skull with her butt cheeks.

That is not the way I want to go.

You are too funny. I am sitting here imagining you actually saying this and I am laughing my ass off. You are indeed a great American nuts.

[XUglow]

She is strong enough that I think she could crush my skull with her butt cheeks.


Interestingly enough, I am guessing that most people would vote Nuts "most likely" to have his head between Serena's butt cheeks. I, for one, don't even know what that means.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Time will tell Poz. It's one thing to yell at an official. It's quite another to melt down, threaten to shove a ball down the official's "f--ing throat", walk away, come back again and threaten bodily harm. Naw, I don't think this one is going away anytime soon.

Yeah, we will just have to agree to disagree here. It was definitely childish behavior and something she will and has seen backlash from but I really just dont think it will be talked about for that long especially considering she has so many more big tournaments to win. I dont think it will even come close to being her legacy.

[Man Behind The Curtain]

McEnroe acted like an insane asylum escapee every match and was beloved for it. Jimmy Connors once screamed at a cameraman (at the US Open, ironically) that he was going to shove a ball down his throat (sound familiar?) and Ilie Nastase, on a weekly basis, made Serena's rant seem calm. Yet, given all of that, people are piling on Serena like crazy. The racial undertones of many in the media's reactions are blatant and shameful.

She is a passionate athlete who, in the heat of the moment, lost her cool / temper. Hardly unique; in fact, as I type this, I see Posada doing worse last night.

Much ado about nothing.

[Muskie1000]

You know everyone is thinking Kanye probably had too much to drink and so his awful behavior. No excuse. If you can't control your liquor than don't drink. On the same note, Serena wasn't drinking but no doubt she was pumped up with all sorts of aggression. Sometimes your aggression can take the better of you - no excuse - but you see it happen in all sorts of sports. Problem with tennis is that its so darn quiet, everything can be caught. You hear on those nfl films some of the choice words said by coaches, players, etc... they aren't given this much flack later.

[boozehound]

They should tar and feather Kanye West live on MTV. I'll bet that the ratings would be through the roof!

Seriously though, when can we stop seeing / hearing from Kanye? The guy is marginally talented at best and his ego is somehow out of control. I would love to watch is career hit the skids.

[XUglow]

The racial undertones of many in the media's reactions are blatant and shameful.


Sheesh. The media didn't do anything to make Serena go ballistic towards the line official. In basketball or baseball, if you toss a fit like that, what happens? You get tossed. The fact that she did this in the semi-finals of the US Open is sports news, and I do believe that it is a subject for sports talk shows. Serena apologized for her behavior, so even she thinks she did something wrong. It's just plain wrong to say that racism is the reason that other sports people are also saying she was out of line. If McEnroe or Conner or Nasty were out tossing their fits in today's 24-hour multi-media coverage era, do you really think that the pundits would be giving them a breaK on their talk shows?

[Smails]

McEnroe acted like an insane asylum escapee every match and was beloved for it. Jimmy Connors once screamed at a cameraman (at the US Open, ironically) that he was going to shove a ball down his throat (sound familiar?) and Ilie Nastase, on a weekly basis, made Serena's rant seem calm. Yet, given all of that, people are piling on Serena like crazy. The racial undertones of many in the media's reactions are blatant and shameful.

She is a passionate athlete who, in the heat of the moment, lost her cool / temper. Hardly unique; in fact, as I type this, I see Posada doing worse last night.

Much ado about nothing.

Aw...christ..here we go. The only thing shameful going on here is inserting the race card where it's not warranted. I wonder if there will ever be a time when a minority person completely misbehaves, the media reports it and someone doesn't pull out the race card.

The McEnroe parrallels don't really work here. McEnroe never made a physical threat to a judge as far as I know... There's a big difference between "You can't be serious!!" and "I'm going to shove this fukin ball down your throat." Secondly...McEnroe was as hated as he was loved. He certainly didn't get any kind of free pass from the media or tennis fans.

She screwed up royally and her image is taking a justifiable hit..no more, no less.

[Snipe]

I think the Serena stuff will blow over pretty quickly. Hopefully the West stuff doesn't. What a prick move. I give Serena credit for being in the heat of the moment, they say the replay proved her right as well. Kanye is just a dick.

[bobbiemcgee]

They should tar and feather Kanye West live on MTV. I'll bet that the ratings would be through the roof!

Seriously though, when can we stop seeing / hearing from Kanye? The guy is marginally talented at best and his ego is somehow out of control. I would love to watch is career hit the skids.

yeah, saw him on Leno, don't know why anybody thinks this guy has talent, he sux.

[DC Muskie]

I guess I must be the only person who didn't care that West got up and interrupted Swift's speech. There have been a ton of stupid stuff that happens on thsoe awards shows. I think West did himself, Swift, MTV, and Jay Leno a great service.

I'm a tennis player. I think the only people who will remember that Serena did this will be hardcore tennis players. I can tell you this, I would have shoved the ball up the line judge's ass if she called me for a foot fault. Which is much like calling holding in the NFL.

Personally, I like Kayne's music. I do not like Serena's game.

I am a half racist.

[X-band '01]

I'm a tennis player. I think the only people who will remember that Serena did this will be hardcore tennis players. I can tell you this, I would have shoved the ball up the line judge's ass if she called me for a foot fault. Which is much like calling holding in the NFL.


If this had happened during a tournament like the Western & Southern Financial Masters, I'd agree. But this was in a Grand Slam tournament and on match point against someone who hadn't played competitive tennis in a couple of years, so I'll disagree there.

Just imagine if golf were to implement a 1-stroke penalty for golfers who were cursing and slamming clubs in the bag. Then again, maybe there is such a rule in place.

Not everyone in tennis is a hothead, but it almost seems like people will see tennis as even more irrelevant if people weren't going off on chair umps.

[Juice]

I'm a tennis player. I think the only people who will remember that Serena did this will be hardcore tennis players. I can tell you this, I would have shoved the ball up the line judge's ass if she called me for a foot fault. Which is much like calling holding in the NFL.


I see foot faults more like traveling in the NBA. It is something that isn't called that much but definitely should be. Serena is a bitch and was getting worked by an opponent who was pregnant not that long ago and she couldn't take it.

[Strange Brew]

I guess I must be the only person who didn't care that West got up and interrupted Swift's speech. There have been a ton of stupid stuff that happens on thsoe awards shows. I think West did himself, Swift, MTV, and Jay Leno a great service.

I'm a tennis player. I think the only people who will remember that Serena did this will be hardcore tennis players. I can tell you this, I would have shoved the ball up the line judge's ass if she called me for a foot fault. Which is much like calling holding in the NFL.

Personally, I like Kayne's music. I do not like Serena's game.

I am a half racist.

People still remember Johnny Macs rant. I doubt they'll forget this one.

[xeus]

I was at the Open the Friday before Labor Day and got to see Clijsters dismantle Kirsten Flipkens. Granted, Flipkens is only 93 in the world, but Kim looked absolutely amazing. In fact (patting myself on the back) I told my girl, "Kim could win this tournament."

Point is, that was Kim's match, and I hope history does not retell the story as Serena lost the match because of that call. Serena lost the match because Kim freaking smoked her.

As to the foot fault call, line judges are not taught to weigh the merits of their calls based on the situation of the match, or the round of the tournament, or the ranking or fame of the player. Nor should they be ... say what you want about the call, but it's ridiculous to give Serena any kind of break because some people think foot faults shouldn't be called.

Serena has a well-deserved reputation as a less than gracious player. I know, she's hardcore, winning attitude, etc. But she's never been very humble in victory or gracious in defeat. I'm sure this will be remembered. It was too big of a match - and Serena's too big of a star - and the outburst was far too memorable - for it not to be.

[waggy]

For those haven't who haven't seen it, Jason Whitlock b-slapped Serena in a Jordan comparison. No mention of Kanye.

Serena's a whiner, Jordan was a winner (http://msn.foxsports.com/tennis/story/10067418/Serena's-a-whiner,-Jordan-was-a-winner)

[DC Muskie]

I was at the Open the Friday before Labor Day and got to see Clijsters dismantle Kirsten Flipkens. Granted, Flipkens is only 93 in the world, but Kim looked absolutely amazing. In fact (patting myself on the back) I told my girl, "Kim could win this tournament."

Point is, that was Kim's match, and I hope history does not retell the story as Serena lost the match because of that call. Serena lost the match because Kim freaking smoked her.

As to the foot fault call, line judges are not taught to weigh the merits of their calls based on the situation of the match, or the round of the tournament, or the ranking or fame of the player. Nor should they be ... say what you want about the call, but it's ridiculous to give Serena any kind of break because some people think foot faults shouldn't be called.

Serena has a well-deserved reputation as a less than gracious player. I know, she's hardcore, winning attitude, etc. But she's never been very humble in victory or gracious in defeat. I'm sure this will be remembered. It was too big of a match - and Serena's too big of a star - and the outburst was far too memorable - for it not to be.


Serena is not Johnny Mac. There are plenty of players on the tour who are pricks, on both the men's and women's side.

Who knows, maybe people will remember it. It's hard to judge for me, since I follow the sport more then the average fan.

That being said, Serena got smoked by a baby momma. SMOKED.

[XUglow]

DC, do you think she wasn't mentally ready. You can tell when she is focused. It doesn't seem that anyone can stop her when she is on her game. Then, out of the blue, she just seems to zone out and go through the motions.

I am thinking she was distracted by all of the upsets and was thinking that she was cruising to the finals.

[GoMuskies]

I think it would be pretty quickly forgotten......if it had not been match point. I think that's gonna stick with people.

[TheDanimal]

Everyone, I'm really happy for you, and I'm gonna let you finish this thread, but Serena had one of the best outbursts of all time!

[xeus]

DC, do you think she wasn't mentally ready. You can tell when she is focused. It doesn't seem that anyone can stop her when she is on her game. Then, out of the blue, she just seems to zone out and go through the motions.

I am thinking she was distracted by all of the upsets and was thinking that she was cruising to the finals.

NO, I'm telling you, Clijsters is playing that well. This was not Serena losing, it was Kim winning. I think Serena was ON her game, and that's why she was so pissed she was losing. Serena had a great tournament until she ran into Kim.

After Kim beat Venus, there's no way Serena was looking past her.

[X-band '01]

For those haven't who haven't seen it, Jason Whitlock b-slapped Serena in a Jordan comparison. No mention of Kanye.

And everyone knows damn well if Serena dropped 20 pounds and focused on her game, she'd be untouchable.

Serena's a whiner, Jordan was a winner (http://msn.foxsports.com/tennis/story/10067418/Serena's-a-whiner,-Jordan-was-a-winner)

That's harsh, but that alone isn't going to solve the mental block that she has at this point.

EDIT: The quote in bold is in the article and does not necessarily reflect the thoughts and posts of Senor Waggy.

[DC Muskie]

NO, I'm telling you, Clijsters is playing that well. This was not Serena losing, it was Kim winning. I think Serena was ON her game, and that's why she was so pissed she was losing. Serena had a great tournament until she ran into Kim.

After Kim beat Venus, there's no way Serena was looking past her.

I completely disagree. Kim played extremely well, but the women's game right now is total crap. There is no way a woman coming back from a two year absence and a month into her return should come out and win a Major. No way.

Look at Oudin's run. She lost every first set and still came back to win. What does that tell you about the women's game? The top ranked players are no where near being mentally tough as they should.

Serena is known for pretty much playing when she feels like playing. She picks up her game when she wants to. 11 Major championships is a good indication. She ran into a buzz saw in Kim, but I would guess if they played ten matches as of right now, Serena would win 7 or 8 out of those.

[xeus]

I completely disagree. Kim played extremely well, but the women's game right now is total crap. There is no way a woman coming back from a two year absence and a month into her return should come out and win a Major. No way.

Look at Oudin's run. She lost every first set and still came back to win. What does that tell you about the women's game? The top ranked players are no where near being mentally tough as they should.

Serena is known for pretty much playing when she feels like playing. She picks up her game when she wants to. 11 Major championships is a good indication. She ran into a buzz saw in Kim, but I would guess if they played ten matches as of right now, Serena would win 7 or 8 out of those.

You completely disagree with what? You are saying the state of the women's game is why Kim Clijsters won the Open? Or are you saying the reason Kim beat Serena is because Serena "didn't feel like playing"? Or are you saying both?

Furthermore, Oudin's run was unique and is not so much a reflection on the state of the game as it was an incredible show of toughness. Runs like that happen, even in major tournaments, when a particular player gets hot.

[DC Muskie]

You are saying the state of the women's game is why Kim Clijsters won the Open?

Yes.


Or are you saying the reason Kim beat Serena is because Serena "didn't feel like playing"?

I'm saying that it was a part of it. Yes.


Furthermore, Oudin's run was unique and is not so much a reflection on the state of the game as it was an incredible show of toughness. Runs like that happen, even in major tournaments, when a particular player gets hot.

No doubt there are runs in any tournament. But this Open and the women's game in general is just overall not quality. Almost all of the ranked players lack mental toughness to win these tournaments, and frankly it showed with Clijsters winning this Open.

[pimpinthebox]

Allow me to go back a bit before addressing the most recent argument. I'll back both Smails and Glow here as they were dead on. Of course, it was different with Mac and Connors. Sure, they screamed at the umpires and linesmen, but I seriously doubt any of them felt threatened by them. Both did it with vigor, but they also did it with an underlying wink at the camera. Not to mention, as Glow said above, this is a different era and you simply don't see anyone in the ladies game acting like that. Things are very different now both in the game and in this ESPN and internet driven sports world. For crying out loud, back in the day, A MAN JUMPED OUT OF THE STANDS AND STABBED MONICA SELES WITH A KNIFE. If that happened today, the internet may shut down.

Props to Jason Whitlock. He is 100% dead on. Serena has no one to blame but herself. I won't argue the fact that she would most likely dominate if she lost 20 and dedicated herself (and her sister would have to retire because their staged matches have tarnished the game), but let's not forget that it's not only about one's physical makeup. Physical ability can only take you so far. At some point, dedication and drive is the thing that separates most and it's apparent she has some issues when challenged. Sure, Serena is physically superior to many of the women on tour (hell, she was drafted in the 6th round by the Dolphins as an outside linebacker), but she tends to wilt when someone isn't afraid of her and comes to play. DC, say what you want about the state of the womens' game, but Clijsters wasn't afraid of that monster, came to play, and earned every bit of that title.

[xeus]

DC, you seem to be judging the quality of the game based on your preconceived notion of who is supposed to win, rather than acknowledging that the parity and depth in the rankings actually highlight the collective amount of talent in the game today.

For example, Oudin was not a nobody - she was ranked like 70 something coming into the Open. Even though most people had never heard of her, she earned her ranking and her wins in the Open. It wasn't because of the "state of the game" that she scored some upsets.

And Clijsters is a former Open champion. Just because she beat a bunch of ranked players shouldn't really surprise anyone who watched her play. Her game is unreal. Her placement of shots, her movement on the court, her consistency at the net and from the baseline, and yes, her mental toughness all made her a nightmare draw in this tourney.

[pimpinthebox]

Forgot to mention, SNL did a solid job addressing this issue last night...

http://popwatch.ew.com/2009/09/18/weekend-update-thursday-seth-and-amy-really/

[XUglow]

Forgot to mention, SNL did a solid job addressing this issue last night...

http://popwatch.ew.com/2009/09/18/weekend-update-thursday-seth-and-amy-really/

I loved it. If you see an old grandma with a "World's Best Grandma Cup" in her hands, don't knock it out of her hands and say that you know a better grandma. Hilarious.

[DC Muskie]

DC, you seem to be judging the quality of the game based on your preconceived notion of who is supposed to win, rather than acknowledging that the parity and depth in the rankings actually highlight the collective amount of talent in the game today.

For example, Oudin was not a nobody - she was ranked like 70 something coming into the Open. Even though most people had never heard of her, she earned her ranking and her wins in the Open. It wasn't because of the "state of the game" that she scored some upsets.

And Clijsters is a former Open champion. Just because she beat a bunch of ranked players shouldn't really surprise anyone who watched her play. Her game is unreal. Her placement of shots, her movement on the court, her consistency at the net and from the baseline, and yes, her mental toughness all made her a nightmare draw in this tourney.

I don't kow what to say xeus. We'll just have to disagree.

I'm not sure how you support the idea of parity and use Clijsters as an example of it. She was on the street bascially six months ago. She has to be the Tiger Woods of woman's tennis to come back from sitting for two years, and win the Open one month into to return. Her play was great, don't get me wrong, but I can't support the theory that even former champs can sit for two years, and win a major tournament one month into it. If there is depth and parity, does that mean anyone can take a long sabbatical and return and win a major in a month?

Being ranked 70th in the world, basically means you are a nobody. Look at all the Russians she beat. The Russian ranked players collectively seem to fall flat all the time.

I'm sorry, there is barely any depth to the men's game, you can't tell me there is parity and depth to the women's game.

[SixFig]

Is it wrong that my interest in women's tennis varies with the level of attractiveness of whoever is playing?

[pimpinthebox]

DC - Regardless of where you think the line of parity is drawn (top 2, top 3, whatever), I wouldn't put either Williams sister is in Federer/Nadal territory despte Del Potro winning this year's open. They just don't commit consistently enough throughout the year. If you're inferring that Clijsters is not in that top tier after what she just proved (beating both Williams sisters en route to the Open title) or that Serena was out of it mentally, then I'll disagree with you too.

[DC Muskie]

Pimp-

Basically what I'm saying is the women's game was much better four or five years ago.

[XUglow]

Is it wrong that my interest in women's tennis varies with the level of attractiveness of whoever is playing?

If one is a man, the answer is "no".
If one is a woman, the answer is "yes, but tell me more."

[PM Thor]

Just for the record, Xeus and DC are arguing over womens tennis.

Noted.

I HATE dayton.

[Kahns Krazy]

Yawn .