DDN article on UD vs X schedule...

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/throughthearch/entries/2009/08/19/dayton_versus_xavier.html

[golfitup]

LOVING the debate in the comments section. I guess I'm just not getting what leg UD fans have to stand on in regards to them thinking they have the more up and coming program and assuming they will pass us in a couple seasons time.

[Cheesehead]

LOVING the debate in the comments section. I guess I'm just not getting what leg UD fans have to stand on in regards to them thinking they have the more up and coming program and assuming they will pass us in a couple seasons time.

UD fans have been delusional for about 25 years now. It really shouldn't surprise anyone on this board.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

LOVING the debate in the comments section. I guess I'm just not getting what leg UD fans have to stand on in regards to them thinking they have the more up and coming program and assuming they will pass us in a couple seasons time.

Oh ya....great entertainment

[danaandvictory]

This is particular is one of the stupidest things I've ever read:

"...One thing Arch didn’t point out was that all those great games are on the road with the exception of LSU. Xavier shouldn’t have problems giving up home games because they average 10,000 fans a game, well below what Dayton can get for a home game. Dayton can scrimmage and draw 10K."

This imbecile apparently doesn't realize that every road game X plays this year is either (a) the return game of a home and away or 2:1 that the other team has already fulfilled, or (b) is being returned by the opponent in 2010-11.

And then we go back to the attendance trope. Typical dumbass UD homer thinking, that the mere fact that 13,000 will show up to see them play Towson State excuses their Athletic Department's failure to upgrade the schedule. Good plan, see how that prepares you for March.

[Strange Brew]

I didn't read the article because it is rediculous on its premise. There is no comparison right now. X is head an shoulders above UD....period.

We expect the NCAA. They hope and pray
We have a state of the art arena. They have a large dump. The fact that its bigger only makes it a bigger stinking eyesore.
They haven't beaten us in Cincy in almost 30 years. DOMINATION

Thay live in the past, we own the present and future.

I'm done with this conversation.

[PM Thor]

Wow are they obsessed with Xavier up in dayton or what? A whole article simply comparing the X and dayton schedules? How about comparing it to the rest of the freaking conference?

Talk about little man syndrome from dayton, always, always trying to measure up to Xavier. Always trying...

Oh and it's hilarious that some dayton fool is posting with my name on there. Talk about obsession again. Holy jeez.

I HATE dayton.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Wow are they obsessed with Xavier up in dayton or what? A whole article simply comparing the X and dayton schedules? How about comparing it to the rest of the freaking conference?

Talk about little man syndrome from dayton, always, always trying to measure up to Xavier. Always trying...

Oh and it's hilarious that some dayton fool is posting with my name on there. Talk about obsession again. Holy jeez.

I HATE dayton.

I don't know the fascination they have with you PM, but it's gotten to the point of obsession.

I've seen your name pop up periodically around cincinnati.com and now DDN articles. Everytime I do a double take and go "Did PM really just say that?" Then I realize its the imposter

[American X]

Wow are they obsessed with Xavier up in dayton or what?

Pot meet kettle.

[Pablo's Brother]

I didn't read the article because it is rediculous on its premise. There is no comparison right now. X is head an shoulders above UD....period.

We expect the NCAA. They hope and pray
We have a state of the art arena. They have a large dump. The fact that its bigger only makes it a bigger stinking eyesore.
They haven't beaten us in Cincy in almost 30 years. DOMINATION

Thay live in the past, we own the present and future.

I'm done with this conversation.

They do have a Marriott Courtyard though. From my understanding, it has really help recruiting....

[Snipe]

I thought it was a decent article. He compared the schedules and ours is tougher hands down. Really isn't much of a comparison. Credit to Bobinski for giving us such a tough schedule.

We could end up taking our lumps though. I think we will do well, but that sked is tough.

[XURunner85]

Until UD proves they can win against us here and other big teams and stop beating the losing teams by 1 or 2 points in the last second and beat them big time...I say f#$% em...prove it on the court and shut up your damn mouths about how they look on paper. Paper is only good for cleaning my ass....

[PM Thor]

Pot meet kettle.

Nah. dayton sucks. I don't want to be like dayton, whereas they want to be like Xavier, and apparently, like me. The only obsession I have with dayton is with their total and utter non existence.

I HATE dayton.

[GuyFawkes38]

yeah, it's not hard to figure out why Dayton is still struggling to lock up home and homes with competitive schools.

It all relates to why Miller decided to end the Creighton series. Although recruiting has improved, Dayton is still a risky bet 2 or 3 years down the line in regards to their end of the season RPI rankings (partly due to there weak schedule...it's a cycle). Nothing could be worse than playing a potentially weak RPI team in a hostile environment (Dayton/Omaha).

Of course, if Dayton manages to overcome their weak schedule and get their RPI up at the end of the season for the next few years, it will be much easier for them to lock up a better schedule.

[SixFig]

Oh and it's hilarious that some dayton fool is posting with my name on there. Talk about obsession again. Holy jeez.



Of course they're jealous of the man who so generously brought food to Crosstown Shootout campers four years ago (that was you, right?)

[Titanxman04]

That was Thor. And as the person who ran that line, on behalf of everyone there, we thank you again. there were a lot of hungry and cold souls that weekend. Every little bit of acknowledgment by the team, student body, and other fans, were what kept us going. That, and the vision of X kicking the crap out of those bear-kittens from across town.

[SixFig]

That was a top five time in my college career. As a freshman camping out in the freezing cold rain, with nothing but the companionship of my fellow Musketeers to keep me warm.

And to top it out with a glorious win over UC. I think the Cintas was as loud as I ever heard it in the 3 years since. It was like a fighter jet flew mach 5 over my head when UC's final shot fell short. It rang for like a week.

Good times. Thanks again Thor and all those who made those good times roll.

[Titanxman04]

That was a top five time in my college career. As a freshman camping out in the freezing cold rain, with nothing but the companionship of my fellow Musketeers to keep me warm.

And to top it out with a glorious win over UC. I think the Cintas was as loud as I ever heard it in the 3 years since. It was like a fighter jet flew mach 5 over my head when UC's final shot fell short. It rang for like a week.

Good times. Thanks again Thor and all those who made those good times roll.

It was certainly worthwhile. I think the fact that we were camping out in such terrible weather, with tents being blown away in the first day and all... I think that just made us more amped up to go to the game and make the building shake from all the noise. It was sweet kicking UC out. And the campus was rocking the rest of the night too.

[jcubspoe]

yeah, it's not hard to figure out why Dayton is still struggling to lock up home and homes with competitive schools.

It all relates to why Miller decided to end the Creighton series. Although recruiting has improved, Dayton is still a risky bet 2 or 3 years down the line in regards to their end of the season RPI rankings (partly due to there weak schedule...it's a cycle). Nothing could be worse than playing a potentially weak RPI team in a hostile environment (Dayton/Omaha).

Of course, if Dayton manages to overcome their weak schedule and get their RPI up at the end of the season for the next few years, it will be much easier for them to lock up a better schedule.

Wow!! If I had posted this PM would have been jumping all the way down my throat and now buying it. I've said this for two years now when ever we debate the schedules. UD won't be able to schedule like X until UD proves that they aren't a bad loss like X has proven. Until UD locks up 5 or 6 NCAA appearance in a row, or 6 out of 7 years, we won't get anyone like Pitt to come and play us again in the Arena, or even schedule a 2:1 deal. Pitt loses by 25 points on our home floor and we miss the NCAA = bad loss for Pitt.

UD is on the verge of making one of two things happen (X crossed this point about 15 years ago) and that is one, we ride this momentum with continued solid recruiting and coaching consistency leading to year in and year out being a borderline Top 25 team or two, we have 2-3 good years and then stumble back. I think the rest of the NCAA is waiting to see if the former happens.

That leads to what PM will say next, "well, why not schedule tough anyway on the road?" To me that's putting the cart before the horse. Do we take the chance that Temple has taken the last two years and hope that you make a championship run in the A10 tourny, which at that point was the only way for Temple to get in due to the thumping they've taken in OOC? I thought the goal was to make the NCAA and UD did that last year without making the A10 finals, Temple would not have. PM tends to think this is a cop out but apparently he wasn't watching Xavier basketball back in 1970-1984.

There's all sorts of ways to analyze this:

1. How does the NCAA really look at last 10 or even 15 games? Thus negating almost anything that happens in the first 10.

2. How is conf play viewed?

3. How is playing teams such as Miami (OH), Creighton, George Mason, New Mexico, Marshall and Mercer viewed as opposed to playing say Northwestern, Penn St., Auburn, NC State, and Iowa???

Unfortunately, we play in the A10 (not the Big East, Big Ten, or ACC) so the margin for error is razor thin, unless you are Gonzaga or X, and that it's when it comes to the "Mid major" schools. You and Zaga rule the roost right now but it didn't happen in 2 years.

UD came up with a formula a few years ago to combat the bias towards the the BCS schools and that is to win as many games as you can. Period. If CW doesn't go down 2 years ago, Dayton would be a team gunning for it's 3rd straight NCAA and preseason ranked (which still might happen). I don't see what there is to argue about the way UD is doing this for now.

[AviatorX]

Good points, but even for a smaller conference homer like myself, it's obvious you're reaching when trying to equate teams like Mercer and Marshall to even the worst of the worst in the BCS conferences.

[PM Thor]

I have never, ever said that dayton should schedule like Xavier, cubs. I will say it again, your schedule sucks, and it hasn't improved one iota in the last three years, in fact, it's has gotten weaker (nominally). A team expected to win a conference, any conference, should be able to improve their schedule over last years. dayton has not.

I HATE dayton.

[jcubspoe]

I have never, ever said that dayton should schedule like Xavier, cubs. I will say it again, your schedule sucks, and it hasn't improved one iota in the last three years, in fact, it's has gotten weaker (nominally). A team expected to win a conference, any conference, should be able to improve their schedule over last years. dayton has not.

I HATE dayton.

First of all, we have no idea what UD's RPI or SOS will be this year...none. Preseason last year, we had a schedule that "looked" tougher on paper (based on the previous year's opponents RPIs) then what it turned out to be as teams like George Mason and Mercer completely tanked in conf. play. By playing a schedule like X's you pretty much insure that that isn't going to happen, especially to the Dukes, LSU, or Florida just because they play in one of the BCS conf.

Two years ago, UD did everything in sight to make the NCAA (at mid season point we were getting all sorts of press) and then injury hit and the wheels came off and we got left out. We had an RPI of like 30 and still didn't get in. Last year, the schedule was worse but we got in...I'll take the latter and you would too.

If UD still has a schedule like this AFTER we make 2 elite 8's and a S16 in 6 years...then I'll scratch my head but until then, I don't even worry about it.

[AviatorX]

That's why you never rely on Mercer or George Mason to help carry your SOS.

[Titanxman04]

That's why you never rely on Mercer or George Mason to help carry your SOS.

Yea, saying that your SOS tanked because Mercer and George Mason couldn't play well, is your first indication that your schedule in the first place rivaled only that of my local beer-league kickball team.

[xunorm]

It is not like you can dramatically change a schedule from one year to the next. X has done a great job of evolving their schedule to fit a great tourney resume. The change has been gradual, as those smaller conference teams are either a warm up for big time play or a rest from a tough stretch; the bigger teams have just gotten better because X has stayed stable. The process of going from the bottom teams in the BCS conferences toward the mid-level was a process. UD is still stuck at step one: try to find enough opponents that we can definitely beat so that we can make a post-season tournament. Xavier no longer has that problem because it will make the NCAA tourney with its reloading talent, so consequently it can keep reloading the schedule.

[jcubspoe]

It is not like you can dramatically change a schedule from one year to the next. X has done a great job of evolving their schedule to fit a great tourney resume. The change has been gradual, as those smaller conference teams are either a warm up for big time play or a rest from a tough stretch; the bigger teams have just gotten better because X has stayed stable. The process of going from the bottom teams in the BCS conferences toward the mid-level was a process. UD is still stuck at step one: try to find enough opponents that we can definitely beat so that we can make a post-season tournament. Xavier no longer has that problem because it will make the NCAA tourney with its reloading talent, so consequently it can keep reloading the schedule.

Thank you...you have just summed up in one paragraph what I've been trying to say for over a year. If I can give some rep, you'll get it.

[PM Thor]

No one has said you can "dramatically" change a schedule. Improve it. Simple concept, get teams 20-30 (or so) better on the RPI scale.

I can bet right now that the average of the RPI for daytons opponents from last year to next year is not 25 spots better than it was. It will take the year to figure it out, but it isn't a stretch to say so. Just let it play out, and you will see.

I HATE dayton.

[jcubspoe]

No one has said you can "dramatically" change a schedule. Improve it. Simple concept, get teams 20-30 (or so) better on the RPI scale.

I can bet right now that the average of the RPI for daytons opponents from last year to next year is not 25 spots better than it was. It will take the year to figure it out, but it isn't a stretch to say so. Just let it play out, and you will see.

I HATE dayton.

PM, it's not a simple to do as you are making it out. Again, we don't have any clue at this point what the RPI for our opponents will ultimately end up being at year's end. Yes, my money is on that X will have the better RPI and SOS because percentages says it will end up that way just by looking at the schedules, X's passes the "eye test". But you have no idea if this year's UD schedule is going to end up being easier then last years.

It's not easy to just say, "let's schedule RPI teams that are 20-30 spots higher". There's too much movement during the season to try and aim at something like that. What if many of these teams we play this year end up 20-30 spots higher then what they were last year? There's just no way that UD will pass your eye test, or anyone's, until we are close to getting the program at the level of X or Zaga. Many on this board and even some X fans that I've talked to in person totally agree with me on this.

[PM Thor]

Man, cubs, you sure have reading comprehension issues. I said that I bet that daytons schedule isn't 25 spots better than it was from last year, not "let's schedule RPI teams that are 20-30 spots higher", like you twist it out to be.

I think daytons scheduling philosophy is a joke, and some of the arguments being put forth to abrogate (word of the day) the weakness of it are too. You seem to be so defensive and imply that this schedule for dayton is actually good. Are you actually satisfied or even, happy with that schedule? Is it the best that dayton could get?

I believe that other teams in this conference step it up in scheduling. Some get it, a very few don't. I can point to a handful of other A10 teams that have increased their OOC scheduling better than dayton has. Yet, there is dayton, basically keeping the same OOC schedule for these 3 years now. The effort isn't there. The midget has made his scheduling philosophy quite apparent. You apparently condone it. I find it laughable.

I HATE dayton.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Man, cubs, you sure have reading comprehension issues. I said that I bet that daytons schedule isn't 25 spots better than it was from last year, not "let's schedule RPI teams that are 20-30 spots higher", like you twist it out to be.

I think daytons scheduling philosophy is a joke, and some of the arguments being put forth to abrogate (word of the day) the weakness of it are too. You seem to be so defensive and imply that this schedule for dayton is actually good. Are you actually satisfied or even, happy with that schedule? Is it the best that dayton could get?

I believe that other teams in this conference step it up in scheduling. Some get it, a very few don't. I can point to a handful of other A10 teams that have increased their OOC scheduling better than dayton has. Yet, there is dayton, basically keeping the same OOC schedule for these 3 years now. The effort isn't there. The midget has made his scheduling philosophy quite apparent. You apparently condone it. I find it laughable.

I HATE dayton.


You did say "get teams 20-30 (or so) better on the RPI scale."

I agree with you overall point though.

[jcubspoe]

Man, cubs, you sure have reading comprehension issues. I said that I bet that daytons schedule isn't 25 spots better than it was from last year, not "let's schedule RPI teams that are 20-30 spots higher", like you twist it out to be.

I think daytons scheduling philosophy is a joke, and some of the arguments being put forth to abrogate (word of the day) the weakness of it are too. You seem to be so defensive and imply that this schedule for dayton is actually good. Are you actually satisfied or even, happy with that schedule? Is it the best that dayton could get?

I believe that other teams in this conference step it up in scheduling. Some get it, a very few don't. I can point to a handful of other A10 teams that have increased their OOC scheduling better than dayton has. Yet, there is dayton, basically keeping the same OOC schedule for these 3 years now. The effort isn't there. The midget has made his scheduling philosophy quite apparent. You apparently condone it. I find it laughable.

I HATE dayton.


You clearly said that we should schedule teams that are 20-30 points better in the RPI.

Are those other A10 teams that have increased their OOC schedule making the NCAA??? Probably not, since we are getting only 2-3 teams in a year. While disagreeing with me on this, you are also disagreeing with many many X fans who agree with me on this one. Sure Dayton could agree to play 5 ACC teams a year on a 3:1 basis (if that even) and not make the NCAA.

I clearly thought that the goal of a program was to make the NCAA??? Is it not? Tell me where that statement is wrong.

Finally, the only people who are even discussing this issue are people involved in the X-UD rivalry. I haven't read one single publication (yet) that has UD preseason ranked that mentions our schedule. This is message board banter that without the internet wouldn't even be mentioned.

And a final final...let's go back and pull X's schedule back when they were just starting to get the ball rolling shall we. You act like X has always, since basketball started (for you, 1985), that X has had the schedule that you have this year.
Go back just to your 03-04 season and take a look at your schedule which included one, yes one ranked team on your schedule and had the likes of Coppin St., Mercer, and Oakland, Ball St. and Louis-Laf, Elon and Morehead St. Wow. Look familiar? You had Indiana and Mississippi St, and Alabama, all good opponents. We have a bunch of duds like that schedule had for you and we have about 3 or 4 decent teams in Ga Tech, hopefully Villanova, George mason and Creighton, possibly Miami OH.

[PM Thor]

So, by your answer, you are satisfied with that schedule.

Well, have fun playing those cupcakes, year after year, and again, year.

The spin you have going to try to defend that weak schedule is funny. "Some Xavier fans agree with me" and "We made the tourney anyway".

Rich and compelling.

Thing is, when you make the comparison about X back in the '80s to dayton now, you assume that dayton is going to do what X did. You simply cannot do that, because you make the leap that winning over years (no less decades) is forecastable. You make the assumption that dayton is at the beginning of national prominence, which is which is your perogative, but it's not how you go about scheduling.

You must strike while it's hot, while you have to take more chances scheduling wise, because in 2-3 years no one can reasonably forecast where a program will be. Assuming you will win in the future, which will bring better scheduling, is hoping upon hope. It's the typical dayton respones really, just applied to scheduling. Wait until next year.

It's the reason why X is now locking up longer term contracts with higher prominence programs. Even Bobinski knows that the future isn't forecastable, thus getting mega annuals like Wake done, possibly a 4 year with Gonzaga, and the like is important. Because even if X has a couple of down years, these contracts will continue to pay off.

dayton isn't even trying to take chances in scheduling philosophy.

EDIT. And if you are comparing the X of the '80s to dayton of now, back in the day X was more than willing to take one and dones from the big boys. I don't see dayton doing that now.

I HATE dayton.

[jcubspoe]

So, by your answer, you are satisfied with that schedule.

Well, have fun playing those cupcakes, year after year, and again, year.

The spin you have going to try to defend that weak schedule is funny. "Some Xavier fans agree with me" and "We made the tourney anyway".

Rich and compelling.

Thing is, when you make the comparison about X back in the '80s to dayton now, you assume that dayton is going to do what X did. You simply cannot do that, because you make the leap that winning over years (no less decades) is forecastable. You make the assumption that dayton is at the beginning of national prominence, which is which is your perogative, but it's not how you go about scheduling.

You must strike while it's hot, while you have to take more chances scheduling wise, because in 2-3 years no one can reasonably forecast where a program will be. Assuming you will win in the future, which will bring better scheduling, is hoping upon hope. It's the typical dayton respones really, just applied to scheduling. Wait until next year.

It's the reason why X is now locking up longer term contracts with higher prominence programs. Even Bobinski knows that the future isn't forecastable, thus getting mega annuals like Wake done, possibly a 4 year with Gonzaga, and the like is important. Because even if X has a couple of down years, these contracts will continue to pay off.

dayton isn't even trying to take chances in scheduling philosophy.

EDIT. And if you are comparing the X of the '80s to dayton of now, back in the day X was more than willing to take one and dones from the big boys. I don't see dayton doing that now.

I HATE dayton.

*Whether I as a fan am satisfied with our schedule or not is a moot point. I was satisfied with Dayton's improvement over the last 3 years of basketball. Whether you or I or Muskie, Aviator, Adamtheflyer, ect are personally satisfied are totally irrelevant. Were you satisfied playing Mercer, Coppin St., Oakland, Elon, Morehead st., Louis-laf, ect? Answer: no one cares if you were or not, nor should you be because the end result was an Elite 8 run. Will anyone give a crap what UD's schedule is this year if we make a run to the S16 or E8? Absolutely not.

*The "spin" that you speak of is by far not the only argument I have made.

*I maintain that Bobinski now has the luxury of 2 Elite 8 runs and some S16 appearance to lure bigger teams to play, and not only to play but to at least give X fair deals in a return game.

[PM Thor]

[QUOTE=jcubspoe;139743I maintain that Bobinski now has the luxury of 2 Elite 8 runs and some S16 appearance to lure bigger teams to play, and not only to play but to at least give X fair deals in a return game.[/QUOTE]

It's irrelevant what X can schedule now. You are stuck on the idea of comparing Xaviers schedule today to daytons schedule of today, but point to Xaviers history at the same time. What I was pointing out is that X is trying to tie down longer , extended contracts out of these programs because you can't forecast the future, so Bobo is taking advantage of the momentum as best he can. dayton isn't even scratching at taking advantage of their tourney appearance.

You made the comparison that dayton is where X was back in the 80's, but ignore that X took one and dones, didn't get a "fair deal" in a return game, and got shafted sometimes in where we played some teams. Well, that's how it works. Is it fair? No, but it's the nature of the beast, sometimes things aren't fair and programs that might deserve a "fair deal in a return game" don't get it.

You seem to believe that dayton deserves to get one and ones from major programs. To get to that spot, there is a natural progression, where you have to just suck it up and take bad deals, just for the opportunity to play some schools. dayton is going the other route of lining up cupcakes at home though.

Where is the motivation for a team like Wake (or whoever) to give dayton a one and one right now, when they can look at your past schedule and say, "If they schedule like that again, we will be their biggest opponent in their arena this year. And if they lose 1 or 2 games, our RPI will take a hit because of it."

They won't schedule you, the motivation just isn't there. dayton fans better get ready to accept the fact that you won't get return games right now, so best thing to do is to suck it up and accept one and dones on the road, over padding your resume' with wins over weaker competition.

I HATE dayton.

[XURunner85]

Okay Dayton fan, you are totally not seeing what we are all saying. So lets say with your schedule you have for this year with that big competition you have (haha) and you win lets say 75 to 80% of them. Then you go into the A10 and you finish with a 9 and 7 record and you lose in the semi finals of the A10 tourney. Now you are on the bubble. Okay now lets say UK has one less victory than UD, but we all know they schedule pretty good (NC, LU, IU) you know big teams. There is one spot left in the tourney and it is between UD and UK, they are going ot take UK because their record even though worst than UD, has a harder schedule than UD. So if UD would schedule harder even if they lose a few of those and have to play away or in neutral locations it will help them when playing A10 that are bottom dwellers so that they don't get upset. You guys had a lot of 1 or 2 point victories that happened in the last second of the game to teams you should have beaten solidly. Playing tougher schedule helps with getting those victories with more time on the clock. UD will have ot make some sacrafices at first maybe playing 2 away and one at home with a team or a one and done with a team but it will help in the long run and if successful then you get the kind of games X is now getting. Forget what X did in the 80's and 90's. Look how we are scheduling now and copy that. Oh yea, I freaking hate UD. Had to throw that in.

[jcubspoe]

It's irrelevant what X can schedule now. You are stuck on the idea of comparing Xaviers schedule today to daytons schedule of today, but point to Xaviers history at the same time. What I was pointing out is that X is trying to tie down longer , extended contracts out of these programs because you can't forecast the future, so Bobo is taking advantage of the momentum as best he can. dayton isn't even scratching at taking advantage of their tourney appearance.

You made the comparison that dayton is where X was back in the 80's, but ignore that X took one and dones, didn't get a "fair deal" in a return game, and got shafted sometimes in where we played some teams. Well, that's how it works. Is it fair? No, but it's the nature of the beast, sometimes things aren't fair and programs that might deserve a "fair deal in a return game" don't get it.

You seem to believe that dayton deserves to get one and ones from major programs. To get to that spot, there is a natural progression, where you have to just suck it up and take bad deals, just for the opportunity to play some schools. dayton is going the other route of lining up cupcakes at home though.

Where is the motivation for a team like Wake (or whoever) to give dayton a one and one right now, when they can look at your past schedule and say, "If they schedule like that again, we will be their biggest opponent in their arena this year. And if they lose 1 or 2 games, our RPI will take a hit because of it."

They won't schedule you, the motivation just isn't there. dayton fans better get ready to accept the fact that you won't get return games right now, so best thing to do is to suck it up and accept one and dones on the road, over padding your resume' with wins over weaker competition.

I HATE dayton.

PM, take this as a compliment...seriously please do. I am comparing the way X and UD have scheduled because I can admit that there has been a talent and program gap between the two schools for the last 20 years. There's no doubt about it. So I bring up X's past schedules to show you that X hasn't ALWAYS had a schedule like they've had the last two years. In fact, I'll bet money that you haven't had two consecutive schedules like your last two in the history of your program. That's a compliment. It means that you are doing something right down there at X that the Flyers are striving for. Again, now that I showed you your 03-04 schedule, would you be satisfied if that were your schedule for this year? Please answer that question. I have a feeling that your answer is a resounding NO.

So? You didn't get this year's schedule overnight. It took 2 Elite 8 appearances and a year in and year out stop in the NCAA's. That 03-04 schedule is absolutely no different then this year's UD schedule.

Now, this is my opinion. Are most of the big six conf teams going to schedule is in one for one series? No, nor should they. But we have scheduled in the past 5 years many many games where we got nothing in return...nothing. Louisville (3 games away from Arena), Duke (one game at Cameron), UNC (one game at UNC). Only Pitt was willing to do a one for one and they'll probably never do it again....wait they will when we aren't viewed as a BAD LOSS. What is so hard to understand about this?? UD, unlike X was still perceived as a bad loss going into last year. Has one NCAA win wiped that image out? I doubt it. Where did a top 30 RPI get us 2 seasons ago? The NIT. So SOS and RPI isn't everything. My take: UD can schedule lopsided series all day long but if it keeps us out of the NCAA because we can't compete then to me it's not worth it. I'll take last years results over the results of two years ago, even though the schedule two years ago was "statistically better".

Your team, your board so I'll give you all the last word but I've beaten my point like a dead horse.

[Muskied]

Gotta say I'm with J here. He seems to understand that until UD goes on a run in the tourney like Xavier did-which earned the ability to schedule one for one with big programs, UD will play for 27 win seasons because they can't schedule anyone else, even if it's just one and done, because they just need to get to the tourney. Yah, Xavier played the occasional Alabama or in a series, just like UD plays the occasional Pitt. But UD will never have the respect to schedule like Xavier, Temple, or UMASS until they earn it....and Dayton fans know it. That's why...yah, they may hate their home schedule, but deep down, it's the means to a hopeful end.

Unless you talk to a UD fan who thinks they've already passed Xavier as a program....then you're dealing with a whole different animal.

[PM Thor]

So I bring up X's past schedules to show you that X hasn't ALWAYS had a schedule like they've had the last two years. In fact, I'll bet money that you haven't had two consecutive schedules like your last two in the history of your program. That's a compliment. It means that you are doing something right down there at X that the Flyers are striving for. Again, now that I showed you your 03-04 schedule, would you be satisfied if that were your schedule for this year? Please answer that question. I have a feeling that your answer is a resounding NO.

Of course I wouldn't be satisfied, but the groundwork for what type of schedule X would accept was already in place well before '03-'04.

People complained about that years schedule before the year by the way (which included games against IU, Miss St, ISU, and Bama). The year before? Xavier played Stanford, Purdue, #24 Mississippi State, #15 Creighton, and #1 Alabama. The philosophy of scheduling, which involved taking advantage of success, was in place well before '03-'04.

You said it yourself, it goes all the way back to the mid 80s, where X was willing to take chances on one and dones on the road. I don't see why dayton isn't willing to embrace doing it now. It's how you set the groundwork upon which you may build a stronger OOC schedule. Teams aren't going to be willing to do a 1 for 1 for a team that won't bolster their OOC by also accepting more 1 and dones from a higher caliber program.

It's about coaching philosophy. I guess dayton fans are satisfied being on the razors edge in terms for making the tourney. 2 years ago, under the current scheduling philosophy, it backfired. Last year, it worked. But just think, if dayton had turned 2, maybe even 1 of those OOC wins into losses, then they would have been sitting out again. And it's because their scheduling philosophy is to accept opponents of the same caliber, year in year out. Sure, one year it happens where a team has a schedule like this. Two years? Worrisome. Three years? That's a trend.

In this discussion, I don't care how X schedules right now, because X has improved over the years, obviously. But dayton? They are standing still, not taking advantage of making, no less winning a game, in the tourney. Convert wins on the court to a better schedule. dayton isn't doing it, not taking advantage of the court success. Scheduling harder also prepares a team for the tourney, obviously. I guess dayton is simply at the point that making the tourney is the goal, not winning multiple games in the tournament.

I HATE dayton.