The corruption of Hoops........AAU

[LutherRackleyRulez]

Per 2'day's New York Times.....


Who’s That on the Court? For $295, We’ll Tell You

LAS VEGAS — After driving three hours to watch a basketball recruit play a game at a tournament in Memphis earlier this month, Vanderbilt Coach Kevin Stallings turned around minutes later and went home.

Just after sitting down with some fellow college coaches, two tournament employees told Stallings that he had to pay $295 for a packet of rosters and information that doubled as an admission fee for college coaches. The coaches in attendance told him that they had been required to do the same thing.

Stallings said he had paid a $10 admission fee and did not want or need the packet, so he hit the road out of principle.




http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/27/sports/ncaabasketball/27hoops.html?_r=1&ref=sports

[XUglow]

Good for Stallings.

I don't know anything about the AAU these days, but they seem to be taking a blind eye towards corruption. I would think they are risking a big confrontation with the NCAA sooner or later.

[Masterofreality]

This whole AAU thing is a disgrace and a mess- and has been for years. I've been involved with coaching scholastic basketball for long enough and two of my nephews have played/are now playing in college. What I've seen of the AAU scene, and I've seen more than I want to, is disgraceful- and getting worse.

Forget the fact that AAU basketball is nothing more than an individual skills showcase, where defense is a rumor. Besides the involvement of the shoe companies, the slippery snakes like Sonny Vaccaro and the street agents selling false dreams, now we're seeing big money corporate agents like IMG wielding influence through their marketing arm and their "Academy". B-ESPN televising these "tournaments" does nothing but exacerbate the problem.

I'm not sure what the NCAA can do necessarily. This is beyond their purview. Maybe there needs to be some sort of IRS or governmental control over the interstate commerce part of this debacle to protect these kids from the unscrupulous slime. There is surely big money changing hands. Just like in the gangster days, the government didn't catch the mob for their crimes- but nailed them on tax evasion. Maybe these bums could be caught the same way.

[XUglow]

I'm not sure what the NCAA can do necessarily.

They can say that you cannot play NCAA college ball AND AAU. That would put an end to the BS.

[Jumpy]

Then AAU just becomes another "minor league" system for the guys who have to wait a year until they are draft eligible for the league.

[sirthought]

They could allow high schools to set up a summer league system of some sort. There would be a lot of details to work out regarding costs and who pays for what, but the gyms are already there and I'm guessing coaches will want to coach whether it's in AAU or somewhere else.

[DC Muskie]

I like how one tournament organizer said he needed to charge that amount to feed his family.

He could sell drugs too. Or rob people at gun point.

Or get a real job.

There are many options in order to "feed your family."

[XUglow]

It is the same culture that brought down Tim Floyd. He won't be the last.

UC and Mississippi State are both taking big risks with recruits. When you are just on the outside looking in, the temptation to take such risks is pretty great.

[Cheesehead]

There are different levels of AAU. My son has played AAU ball since he was 8 years old (he's now 12 and a half) and there are good programs and bad programs; at least around here in Cincy. Some of the teams are very good w/ talented players and some are not much better than Rec ball. I choose to have my son play AAU, as on the whole, the competition is better than Rec ball or CYO leagues. It has made him a better player.

He wants to play varsity and I think he will have a realistic chance if he continues to develop the way he has thus far. I am not thrilled about all that I see on the AAU circuit; fan behavior, terrible refs, very rough style of play by some teams; players who switch from one team to the next, etc.,. In fact his team plays in Nike CP3 Jordan shoes and has Nike Air Jordan uniforms and the shoes were a required purchase (they were dscounted from retail). So, I guess it's a necessary evil to get him to where he wants to go.

[PMI]

There are different levels of AAU. My son has played AAU ball since he was 8 years old (he's now 12 and a half) and there are good programs and bad programs; at least around here in Cincy. Some of the teams are very good w/ talented players and some are not much better than Rec ball. I choose to have my son play AAU, as on the whole, the competition is better than Rec ball or CYO leagues. It has made him a better player.

He wants to play varsity and I think he will have a realistic chance if he continues to develop the way he has thus far. I am not thrilled about all that I see on the AAU circuit; fan behavior, terrible refs, very rough style of play by some teams; players who switch from one team to the next, etc.,. In fact his team plays in Nike CP3 Jordan shoes and has Nike Air Jordan uniforms and the shoes were a required purchase (they were dscounted from retail). So, I guess it's a necessary evil to get him to where he wants to go.

I agree with this totally. AAU gets a bad rap and some of it is warranted. This debate has been going on in our local media for a long time. The light is shined specifically on Maryland basketball because Gary Williams had refused to deal with AAU coaches until this past year, which is the root of the reason the program has experienced a very abnormal drop-off: going from 2002 National Champs to a very mediocre ACC program in just a few years WITHOUT any violations. That is the power of AAU and I think that helps show the time period where it really started to become a monster, around the early to mid part of this decade.

The thing is, like you said, it's not all bad at all. I remember players I went to school with who got college scholarships more in part because of their AAU play than their actual high school play. Some of the coaches have messed up, but I believe most of them are in it for the right reasons and I think a lot of kids benefit from the system. There are some problems that it would be nice to see fixed, but AAU basketball is not as evil as it's sometimes portrayed. The problem is that there have been some bad apples (both coaches and players.)

[West is Best]

The thing is, like you said, it's not all bad at all. I remember players I went to school with who got college scholarships more in part because of their AAU play than their actual high school play. Some of the coaches have messed up, but I believe most of them are in it for the right reasons and I think a lot of kids benefit from the system. There are some problems that it would be nice to see fixed, but AAU basketball is not as evil as it's sometimes portrayed. The problem is that there have been some bad apples (both coaches and players.)

Agree with PMI, some other points:
AAU also lets taller players get a better chance to develop. A lot of times 6'5" SF will be forced to play the 5 for significant minutes on a high school team, simply because they don't have the height. For players 6'8" and taller, they might not see a opposing player with their height for weeks at a time during high school.

Also, take a player like Brad Redford for example. If he can't play AAU there's no way a college coach can take a chance on him. He needed AAU to show he could play against the type of players who would go on to play college hoops.

[Masterofreality]

Also, take a player like Brad Redford for example. If he can't play AAU there's no way a college coach can take a chance on him. He needed AAU to show he could play against the type of players who would go on to play college hoops.


Sorry W is B. Brad Redford was well known outside of the AAU circuit and had made a nice name for himself- even playing in little Frankenmuth. He was Mr. Basketball in Michigan his senior year. I do believe that "a college coach would have taken a chance on him."

The fact was that Xavier was on him early- and that is why we have him. In that vein, I'll agree with Cheesehead and PMI. The key AAU years are from say, summer before 7th grade to summer before the sophomore year in high school. Those 4 years are much more innocent as to the kids playing. They can get themselves noticed. After that, a lot of outside influences start coming into play- and not all of them are helpful.

Hopefully in those 4 years between 7th and soph, kids who play have a positive influence of a coach who knows the game, respects the game and teaches the kids fundamentals like playing defense with your feet and sharing the ball. Too often, however, all you see is a "team" that is all about 1 or 2 players who are being showcased and the others are just court fillers.

I've seen plenty when it comes to this both with my nephews and my Musketette Daughter who was a helluva volleyball player in high school. There is the same set up for that sport only it's called "Junior Olympic" volleyball. There are good things that come of these programs- including the chance to have informal meetings with college coaches that may develop into something. But...

The initial subject of this thread had to do with the blatant money grabs that many of these programs are after. Make no mistake, it's Big Business. That part is certainly not getting any cleaner- especially with slimy guys navigating in this economy.

[dc_x]

Is it really unfair to charge $300 for admission to an event with so many top high school players. If you can get 500 top-quality HS kids in one gym, paying $300 for admission is a bargain compared to what it would cost to fly around the country to see all those kids.

Unless the NCAA wants to set up these recruting events, I think these AAU guys are providing quite a service.

[AviatorX]

Is it really unfair to charge $300 for admission to an event with so many top high school players. If you can get 500 top-quality HS kids in one gym, paying $300 for admission is a bargain compared to what it would cost to fly around the country to see all those kids.

Unless the NCAA wants to set up these recruting events, I think these AAU guys are providing quite a service.

I agree with this. IMO (as well as others'), 99.9% of those involved with AAU are doing it for the right reasons, it's just the World Wide Wes and Delonte Hill types that get the attention. Where would college basketball be without the AAU circuit? Anyone who says it would be better is dreaming, I think.

[DAllen15]

Is it really unfair to charge $300 for admission to an event with so many top high school players.

Then charge the admission fee upfront, and don't go through the B.S. motions of charging $10 to get in and another $295 for the "program".

[GoMuskies]

Delonte Hill types

What did Hill do that you have a problem with?

[XUglow]

I agree with this. IMO (as well as others'), 99.9% of those involved with AAU are doing it for the right reasons, it's just the World Wide Wes and Delonte Hill types that get the attention. Where would college basketball be without the AAU circuit? Anyone who says it would be better is dreaming, I think.

We did it through the CYO Select in northern California. There wasn't any AAU anything in the region, and yet players like Jason Kidd and Mark Madsen managed to get noticed.

...and wow, how could college ball survive without all of those prima donna kids that don't know how to play defense showing up each fall. I guess the popularity of the sport would immediately plummet.

[AdamtheFlyer]

What did Hill do that you have a problem with?


He used Michael Beasley as a bargaining chip to get himself an assistant job.

I agree with the notion that most people in AAU are great people with only the best interest of the kids at heart. It's far less than 99.9%, but it's a good percentage.

[GoMuskies]

I don't think that's what Hill did. Thuggs offered him the cash, and he'd have been an idiot to turn it down.

[PMI]

We did it through the CYO Select in northern California. There wasn't any AAU anything in the region, and yet players like Jason Kidd and Mark Madsen managed to get noticed.

...and wow, how could college ball survive without all of those prima donna kids that don't know how to play defense showing up each fall. I guess the popularity of the sport would immediately plummet.

Back then that may have been true, but now the AAU has grown large enough that taking it away now would have a major immediate effect on college basketball, I believe, and some sort of alternative would need to be in place right away. Again, for every one and done no-defense prima donnas you speak of, there are plenty of good kids trying to get noticed and increase their stocks, and this is the best way to do it, like it or not. Don't forget, we recruit AAU guys too (and have even taken coaches from that league...)


I don't think that's what Hill did. Thuggs offered him the cash, and he'd have been an idiot to turn it down.

If you don't think that's what Hill did you are being naive. You really think Thuggs needed him or vice versa? He was part of the Michael Beasley package, no doubt.

[GoMuskies]

I think Hill was tight with Beasley for non-shady reasons, and Huggins presented him with an offer he couldn't (and shouldn't) refuse. I don't think what Hill did was any more shady than any other assistant coach who takes his recruiting rolodex with him to his next stop. Beasley just happened to be the #1 player in the country.

[AviatorX]

I think Hill was tight with Beasley for non-shady reasons, and Huggins presented him with an offer he couldn't (and shouldn't) refuse. I don't think what Hill did was any more shady than any other assistant coach who takes his recruiting rolodex with him to his next stop. Beasley just happened to be the #1 player in the country.

This is definitely true.

[MuskieCinci]

Wasn't Hill like a father figure to Beasley? I think Hill was actually a pretty positive influence on Beasley and Beasley just wanted to go to college wherever Hill was. Obviously the situation sucked for Charlotte but I don't know if Beasley ever really cared about them too much, he was more focused on Hill.

[AdamtheFlyer]

I don't get the no defense thing in AAU. There's plenty of defense. It's the toughest defense they play and face until they get to college. Branson Spearman is a 4-Star prospect in large part because of his AAU defense. Adreian Payne might not be a top 100 prospect if it weren't for his defense.

[MuskieCinci]

I don't know if it was just a bad game for him but the other night when All-Ohio Red was on ESPNU Payne got destroyed on the defensive end by Melvin Tab. He seems to just have random plays throughout the game where he looks incredible but for the most part his defense was lacking.

[XUglow]

I don't get the no defense thing in AAU. There's plenty of defense. It's the toughest defense they play and face until they get to college. Branson Spearman is a 4-Star prospect in large part because of his AAU defense. Adreian Payne might not be a top 100 prospect if it weren't for his defense.

Quote from Michael Beasley - “If you’re playing defense in AAU, you don’t need to be playing,” he says. “I’ve honestly never seen anyone play defense in AAU.”

[AviatorX]

The only defense in AAU is the defense that leads to the stats such as blocks, steals, etc. Anything to pad the stat line. Bottom line, you aren't going to see a kid giving 150% with 2 minutes left down by 4 on the defensive end, at least most of the time you won't.

[AdamtheFlyer]

Quote from Michael Beasley - “If you’re playing defense in AAU, you don’t need to be playing,” he says. “I’ve honestly never seen anyone play defense in AAU.”

Beasley doesn't play defense in the NBA. I'm not even sure he could execute a basic figure 8 defensive slide drill in practice.

[XUglow]

Beasley doesn't play defense in the NBA. I'm not even sure he could execute a basic figure 8 defensive slide drill in practice.

ATF, the quote is from an article in the Wall Street Journal about the AAU being broken. It isn't a feature article about Michael Beasley. European leagues practice 5 or 6 times for each game. AAU teams play 5 or 6 games per practice. The assessment of "no defense" comes from a large number of players and coaches in college and in the NBA.

American Kids Flunk Basketball 101

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204621904574248282288269744.html

If you compare AAU defense to say... a traffic cone, I guess it looks pretty good.

[Masterofreality]

ATF....
If you compare AAU defense to say... a traffic cone, I guess it looks pretty good.


Reps to you, my man!!!:D

[dc_x]

I'm sure this article has been posted here before, but it's pretty applicable to this thread.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=ys-agents031109


Agents and AAU: Unrequited Love

LOS ANGELES – Kevin Love said he would’ve preferred hitting In-N-Out Burger with his family after another UCLA victory last winter. Yet, there was Pat Barrett, head of one of the top AAU basketball programs in the country, waiting outside the Pauley Pavilion locker room and pleading for Love to come with him instead.

Love had known Barrett since he was in fifth grade, played two years for Barrett’s traveling team and, as a result, said he felt obligated to go. What Love apparently didn’t know was a New York sports agency had donated $250,000 to Barrett’s team under the premise Barrett could deliver players such as Kevin Love – to dinner first, then as a client.

When Love arrived at Mr. Chow, the famed Chinese restaurant in Beverly Hills, the waiting group included Jay Williams, former national player of the year at Duke and 2002 NBA lottery pick.

Williams was there on business, as the chief recruiter for Ceruzzi Sports and Entertainment, the very agency that staked Barrett with a quarter-million dollars.

“I was like, excuse my French, what the [expletive] is this all about?” Love said during a recent interview.

Like other young basketball stars, Love found himself in the middle of a cutthroat business where access to potential NBA players and people of influence is more critical than ever. Some agents still dispatch runners who lurk in the shadows and hope to befriend top college players with hundred-dollar handshakes.

[waggy]

The New Jersey Nets have been fined $50,000 for Nets minority owner Jay-Z's presence in the Kentucky locker room after the Wildcats clinched a Final Four berth.

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/news/story?id=6309641

[waggy]

And pretty sure this story was posted somewhere on the forum in the past, but just a little refresher to connect the dots...

http://www.gq.com/sports/profiles/200706/william-wesley-worldwide-wes-nba-basketball?currentPage=1

[wkrq59]

I think Hill was tight with Beasley for non-shady reasons, and Huggins presented him with an offer he couldn't (and shouldn't) refuse. I don't think what Hill did was any more shady than any other assistant coach who takes his recruiting rolodex with him to his next stop. Beasley just happened to be the #1 player in the country.

Tell that to the former coach at UNC Charlotte, Bobby ??? who got a verbal commitment from Beasley, and reneged on it when Huggins offered him a job at Kansas State. It eventually cost Bobby his job.:cool:

[xuwin]

Tell that to the former coach at UNC Charlotte, Bobby ??? who got a verbal commitment from Beasley, and reneged on it when Huggins offered him a job at Kansas State. It eventually cost Bobby his job.:cool:

Lutz