Are you Buying into it??

[MADXSTER]

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/weiss/2009/07/well-buy-the-hype-on-dayton.html

We'll buy the hype on Dayton
July 13, 2009
Dayton just sent out a flyer recommending we pencil the Flyers into our preseason Top 25. We'll buy into that, seeing that Dayton coach Brian Gregory - a former Tom Izzo assistant at Michigan State - has four players - junior forward Chris Wright, sophomore forward Chris Johnson, senior guard London Warren and senior guard Rob Lowery - who earned some sort of Atlantic 10 postseason awards last year from a 27-8 team that advanced to the second round of the NCAA tournament with a victory over West Virginia.

The 6-8 Wright, who we first saw in the Michael Jordon Nike game at the Garden three years ago, has a vertical leap of 41 inches and deserves strong consideration for A-10 Player of the Year. We came away very impressed by Wright's 27-point, 10-rebound performance against Big East power West Virginia in the tournament.

Gregory, by the way, has won 50 games in the past two years.



http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/weiss/2009/07/well-buy-the-hype-on-dayton.html#ixzz0LGhFB2Hh&D

[Muskie]

I've got no problem with their analysis. If UD is Top 25 they're Top 25. I'm not going to wring my hands in consternation over it. I really only care about what the results are in March.

[AviatorX]

Once again, let's see it on the court for once, Dayton.

[PMI]

I don't buy it at all. dayton can suck it. I hope and think that when we look back 9 months from now we'll be saying they were the most overrated team in the preseason by far. And some how, some way, we will once again be on of the most underrated. dayton will not pass our program this year fellas. Take that to the bank.

[AviatorX]

Putting aside all bias (extremely hard to do, admittedly) I honestly think that if UD is at all better than X, it's by the slimmest of slim amounts. Chris Wright is good, sure, but other than the WVU game last year, he hasn't really shown the ability to take over a game, similar to Derrick Brown coming into this past year. Granted, he could turn that around, but he's going to need some help to take down XU.

The other main argument most make for UD when anointing them league favorite, top 25, etc. is the returning senior leaders. Take it for what it's worth, but there's a difference between returning Lavender, Duncan, and Burrell or Raymond, Brown, and Anderson and bringing back London Warren, Rob Lowery (coming off a major injury), and Kurt Huelsman. I'll leave it at that.

We may lose up there (pains me to say this, but I think it will be a close game nonetheless) but rest assured the streak will live on in Cincy and XU will complete the 4-peat.

[SixFig]

They have won 50 games over the past 2 years? Wow. Can't believe it with that tough nonconference schedule and blowout wins over hapless opponents!

[Blueblob4life]

They have won 50 games over the past 2 years? Wow. Can't believe it with that tough nonconference schedule and blowout wins over hapless opponents!

Dont forget playing a heavily injured Pitt team at the Dump and "upsetting" them.

[kyxu]

Dont forget playing a heavily injured Pitt team at the Dump and "upsetting" them.

It was Louisville who was depleted when UD beat them. Pitt was at full strength when they lost to UD, except when Fields (I think) went down in the second half. Still, at that moment, UD was already pretty much in control of the game. They beat a top 5 team by 25 points. That's impressive no matter how you slice it.

In regards to UD in 2009-10...well...UD has always had pretty talented teams, and last year was no exception. It's Brian Gregory who makes me think twice. I really do not think Brian Gregory is a very good coach. Seriously. The man's barely over .500 in his A-10 coaching career.

Plus Xavier is Xavier. We always lose coaches and players, yet somehow always win 25+ games, win the conference and go to the dance. When St. Joe's or Temple or Dayton knocks us off that perch, I'll believe it.

[xavbball]

They have won 50 games over the past 2 years? Wow. Can't believe it with that tough nonconference schedule and blowout wins over hapless opponents!

Winning against Fordham at the dump by one point is saying something!

[Strange Brew]

I'm happy to see that UC and UD will actually field above average teams this year. That ensures at least 2 and possibly 3 quality wins for the Muskies this year.

[West is Best]

It was Louisville who was depleted when UD beat them. Pitt was at full strength when they lost to UD, except when Fields (I think) went down in the second half. Still, at that moment, UD was already pretty much in control of the game. They beat a top 5 team by 25 points. That's impressive no matter how you slice it.


The Louisville win was a complete sham... the Cardinals didn't show up at all. Any team in the top half of D1 would have beaten them.

Pitt was a good win, and really helped the conference. At the same time, they didn't play anywhere close to level they were capable of playing.


Just out of curiosity, do we send out press releases that we should be a top 25 team? That seems unusual, but maybe its very common in college athletics.

[AdamtheFlyer]

Just out of curiosity, do we send out press releases that we should be a top 25 team? That seems unusual, but maybe its very common in college athletics.


It's common. Even teams like UNC and Duke send out "Look at us" releases. It's nothing more than simple marketing.

As for Dayton, the Flyers have a really good team. They return everybody but an inconsistent Little, and add a top 150 recruit in redshirt Josh Benson. Matt Kavanaugh will surprise people. He's not going to be an all-rookie type player, but he will do well with his minutes. I know London Warren is a punching bag here, which is fine, but the kid can play. No, he can't shoot, but he's developed into one of the best PGs in this league. Lowery will be healthy, which is huge. Guys like Williams, Fabrizius, and Searcy should all get better. When the worst player in your rotation still brings nearly 40% shooting from deep to the table when on the floor, you have a good team.

The key, obviously, is shooting. If they become a better shooting team, they'll stay in and around the top 25 all year, and will push for a 4-5 seed in March. If not, I see them being and 8-9. They'll be good. Shooting can make them great.

The obvious topic here is "will they be better than Xavier". We don't know, but that question is pretty far off. It's not like one team has to suck. It's entirely possible for Xavier to be better and Dayton to still be a legit top 25 team.

[vee4xu]

It's common. Even teams like UNC and Duke send out "Look at us" releases. It's nothing more than simple marketing.

As for Dayton, the Flyers have a really good team. They return everybody but an inconsistent Little, and add a top 150 recruit in redshirt Josh Benson. Matt Kavanaugh will surprise people. He's not going to be an all-rookie type player, but he will do well with his minutes. I know London Warren is a punching bag here, which is fine, but the kid can play. No, he can't shoot, but he's developed into one of the best PGs in this league. Lowery will be healthy, which is huge. Guys like Williams, Fabrizius, and Searcy should all get better. When the worst player in your rotation still brings nearly 40% shooting from deep to the table when on the floor, you have a good team.

The key, obviously, is shooting. If they become a better shooting team, they'll stay in and around the top 25 all year, and will push for a 4-5 seed in March. If not, I see them being and 8-9. They'll be good. Shooting can make them great.

The obvious topic here is "will they be better than Xavier". We don't know, but that question is pretty far off. It's not like one team has to suck. It's entirely possible for Xavier to be better and Dayton to still be a legit top 25 team.

Keep dreaming. So long as Gregory is the coach, the team will go nowhere. That is why I am a strong proponent to keep BG at ud until he dies. And I hope he lives to be 100 years old.

[MuskiePimp23]

The Louisville win was a complete sham... the Cardinals didn't show up at all. Any team in the top half of D1 would have beaten them.

Pitt was a good win, and really helped the conference. At the same time, they didn't play anywhere close to level they were capable of playing.


Just out of curiosity, do we send out press releases that we should be a top 25 team? That seems unusual, but maybe its very common in college athletics.

Not true about the Pitt game...Levance Fields did go down at the beginning of the second half with about 16 minutes to go and did not return, but Sam Young missed the ENTIRE GAME. That is two very key players and that to me is a depleted team...Louisville was missing Padgett and Palacios when they lost to Dayton at home...Both wins should have an * for being wins over depleted teams...I know you have to play what the schedule deals you, but if they had played Pitt or Louisville in the tourney at the end of last year, UD would have gotten smoked and ironically they would have been missing Wright most likely.

[kdawg23]

Not true about the Pitt game...Levance Fields did go down at the beginning of the second half with about 16 minutes to go and did not return, but Sam Young missed the ENTIRE GAME. That is two very key players and that to me is a depleted team...Louisville was missing Padgett and Palacios when they lost to Dayton at home...Both wins should have an * for being wins over depleted teams...I know you have to play what the schedule deals you, but if they had played Pitt or Louisville in the tourney at the end of last year, UD would have gotten smoked and ironically they would have been missing Wright most likely.

FWIW... Mike Cook was the one who didn't play, not Sam Young. Young played the entire game.

Also, why are we talking about UD and games they played 2 years ago? Who gives a shit.

[BandAid]

FWIW... Mike Cook was the one who didn't play, not Sam Young. Young played the entire game.

Also, why are we talking about UD and games they played 2 years ago? Who gives a shit.

You're talking about it too...

[kdawg23]

You're talking about it too...

Touche.....

[Swifty]

I know London Warren is a punching bag here, which is fine, but the kid can play. No, he can't shoot, but he's developed into one of the best PGs in this league.

I really didn't have any problem with your post except for this part. Warren is one of the best point guard's in the league? If you had said defensive point guards, then yeah maybe I would've rolled with it, but best overall comeon.

Last year he was not better than Lowe, Anderson, Harris, Fontan, or Carr. You could make arguements that he wasn't as good as Evans, Inge, Mitchell, or Holloway, you wouldn't nessecarily win all of those arguements, but they are all at least on the same playing level.
And although several of those guys have moved on, you have to figure a lot of them are going to take a step forward. Guys like Mitchell, Evans, Fernandez, and Holloway who were frosh last year will probably take a big step forward. A step that Warren has shown he really won't make. It pretty much looks like he has maxed out his potential, he isn't going to be drilling 3's or scoring big numbers.

The guy had 3 double digit scoring games all year. Granted he is not out there to drop 20, yet one would think a top level point guard would be able to do more than that especially on what was an offensivly challenged team last year. It wasn't like there weren't chances to step up. And who was out there beating Fordham or icing the game against Wofford, not Warren but Lowery, if the guy isn't even the one the coach wants in crunch time how the heck can you say he is one the A-14's best point guards.

[jcubspoe]

I really didn't have any problem with your post except for this part. Warren is one of the best point guard's in the league? If you had said defensive point guards, then yeah maybe I would've rolled with it, but best overall comeon.

Last year he was not better than Lowe, Anderson, Harris, Fontan, or Carr. You could make arguements that he wasn't as good as Evans, Inge, Mitchell, or Holloway, you wouldn't nessecarily win all of those arguements, but they are all at least on the same playing level.
And although several of those guys have moved on, you have to figure a lot of them are going to take a step forward. Guys like Mitchell, Evans, Fernandez, and Holloway who were frosh last year will probably take a big step forward. A step that Warren has shown he really won't make. It pretty much looks like he has maxed out his potential, he isn't going to be drilling 3's or scoring big numbers.

The guy had 3 double digit scoring games all year. Granted he is not out there to drop 20, yet one would think a top level point guard would be able to do more than that especially on what was an offensivly challenged team last year. It wasn't like there weren't chances to step up. And who was out there beating Fordham or icing the game against Wofford, not Warren but Lowery, if the guy isn't even the one the coach wants in crunch time how the heck can you say he is one the A-14's best point guards.

I'm certainly not the biggest LW fan amongst UD fans but if you're criteria for a PG is points only then you don't watch a whole lot of basketball. You did mention his D which is better then most in the A10 and look at his assist/TO ratio, especially in UD's last half of the season where he ranked in the Top 15 in the nation. X would've begged for that assist/to ratio last year. That being said, I'd love it if he'd hit just one 3 pointer this year.

And my goodness, can some of you X fans revise the history on the Pitt game any worse??? You must be public school teachers teaching history around here.

[DC Muskie]

50 wins, no A-10 titles, one NCAA tournament win.

Solid. Very solid.

[AdamtheFlyer]

The best PGs in the league this year will be Kevin Anderson, Dijuan Harris, Kwamain Mitchell, and London/Lowery, probably in that order. Holloway won't even be the best PG on his team, and Cheeks Lyons won't be ready to reach the best in league conversation. Same with Eric Evans. To say London has hit his ceiling is ridiculous in its own right. People said that his freshmen year, and all he's done is improve dramatically each season.

PG points is the worst stat you can bring. It's just awful. London's shooting is such a strawman argument with absolutely no correlation to the team's offensive output with him on the floor.

[danaandvictory]

Erm, doesn't the fact that Warren's defender can basically camp out in the lane affect UD's ability to work the ball inside?

[AdamtheFlyer]

Erm, doesn't the fact that Warren's defender can basically camp out in the lane affect UD's ability to work the ball inside?

The numbers don't show it.

[XU 87]

PG points is the worst stat you can bring. It's just awful. London's shooting is such a strawman argument with absolutely no correlation to the team's offensive output with him on the floor.

He's a point guard who didn't make a three last year. My guess is that he is probably the only starting point guard in the country who can claim that stat.

There was a reason that UD stole him from Jacksonville (the college not the NFL team).

[DC Muskie]

there was a reason that ud stole him from jacksonville (the college not the nfl team).

yyyyyeeeeesssss!

[goodenchiladas]

Not buying. A win over WV followed by the second most inept offensive performance in the tourney. Only Chattanooga was worse.

And Dayton may have 50 wins in the past 2 seasons, but Dayton was also just +15 points (+16 in '09, -1 in '08). Contrast to Xavier's +350 (+201 in '09, +149 in '08).

Dayton will probably be a little better team in A-10 games in '10, but the W/L will be worse. I'm more concerned about Dayton in '10 when Huelsman, Warren and Lowery leave and the Drake transfer is elligible.

And as for Warren/Lowery being any good offensively, aside from very good assist rates (probably as much to do with transition hoops and the talents of Wright and Marcus Johnson as it has to do with them), what other numbers say they are any good, particularly in the half court?

[XU 87]

Did UD really shoot 16 for 72 against Kansas?

[Frank D.]

Two points . . .

1) Dayton won so many close games last year and had such a weak schedule, it inflates how good they really were. They will be good this year, but I wouldn't expect them to have any better of a record than last year, and probably a worse record.

2) I really don't think Dayton will be a better team than X this year. But if they aren't better in a year where they return 4 starters from a team that won 27 games, while Xavier loses 3 veteran starters and has a ton of newcomers, Dayton will never be better. This is your year, Dayton. Good luck.

[XU 87]

No, London can't shoot, but he's developed into one of the best PGs in this league.



I suppose if you ignore the fact that he can't shoot or score, then, yes, he's one of the best point guards in the league.

[danaandvictory]

I think XU's ceiling is higher than UD's this season (in terms of NCAA seeding and advancement), but UD is more of a known quantity. I feel pretty comfortable saying UD will be in the tournament somewhere in the 6-10 range, whereas I really don't have a read on whether XU is a potential Top 15 team or ends up closer to the bubble. I think either outcome is within the range of possibility given the coaching and roster turnover.

[kyxu]

The best PGs in the league this year will be Kevin Anderson, Dijuan Harris, Kwamain Mitchell, and London/Lowery, probably in that order. Holloway won't even be the best PG on his team, and Cheeks Lyons won't be ready to reach the best in league conversation.

Really looking forward to Xavier and Dayton playing this coming season. Really looking forward to it.

[xu15]

They are very similar in talent. X has more talent, but Dayton has more experience. However, I think this is negated because X players have WAY more big game and tourney game experience.

These two wont be far off, but Dayton tends to choke a lot, X on the other hand does not.
Edge to Xavier based on this.

[XU 87]

They are very similar in talent. X has more talent, but Dayton has more experience.


I respectfully disagree. Xavier has talented basketball players. UD has good athletes, who other than Wright, aren't overly talented basketball players.

London Warren is a good example. He's quick and athletic but he's not a particularly talented basketball player (ie he can't shoot).

[Pablo's Brother]

I think XU's ceiling is higher than UD's this season (in terms of NCAA seeding and advancement), but UD is more of a known quantity. I feel pretty comfortable saying UD will be in the tournament somewhere in the 6-10 range, whereas I really don't have a read on whether XU is a potential Top 15 team or ends up closer to the bubble. I think either outcome is within the range of possibility given the coaching and roster turnover.

Cheese: I think we will go to the second round again based upon the solid returning base we have and Crawford's skills. Don't think we will struggle as many believe.

[GuyFawkes38]

I respectfully disagree. Xavier has talented basketball players. UD has good athletes, who other than Wright, aren't overly talented basketball players.

London Warren is a good example. He's quick and athletic but he's not a particularly talented basketball player (ie he can't shoot).

In all seriousness, UD players under the Gregory regime remind me of X players under the Gillin/Prosser regimes.

That's not necessarily a bad thing. UD hasn't been able to recruit at the same level as X for the past 10 years (that appears to be changing with the past couple talented UD classes). Not having the same luxury as X, Gregory opted to recruit athletic players over skilled players.

[dc_x]

And Dayton may have 50 wins in the past 2 seasons, but Dayton was also just +15 points (+16 in '09, -1 in '08). Contrast to Xavier's +350 (+201 in '09, +149 in '08).


Is that accurate? If so, WOW. How do you go 50-19 over 2 seasons with only a +15 scoring margin?

[AviatorX]

Is that accurate? If so, WOW. How do you go 50-19 over 2 seasons with only a +15 scoring margin?

Things like this don't hurt:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=290142168

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=290352325

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=283212168

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=290292168

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=283332168

[AdamtheFlyer]

Is that accurate? If so, WOW. How do you go 50-19 over 2 seasons with only a +15 scoring margin?


A few really bad losses. It seems that Dayton throws a few major clunkers each year, most of the time against UMass, at Charlotte, and the games at X. Plus, BG's style leads to closer scores in easy wins. There were several games last year where the Flyers would have a 24 point lead after half, call off the dogs early, and win by half that amount. Saint Joes, Saint Bona, and Temple were glaring examples, as well as Mercer. I remember them leading Duquesne by nearly 30 at one point at home, before winning by 17. BG's got a lot of Jim Tressel in him. Get a big lead, then use the remaining minutes for in game teaching. They seriously went to a four corners offense with 11 minutes to go vs Saint Bona. It was like Thomas, Williams, CJohnson, Fabrizius, and Seacy on the floor. Just getting Thomas some mnutes.

Almost bit them in the butt against Temple, but no other game was ever in doubt. Just a lower margin than it could have been. Not all UD fans agree, lots of groaning and mumbling when this happens. Some want 30 points wins regardless.

[XU 87]

A few really bad losses.



No, UD won a lot of close games. I think there was one statistician/writer who called UD the most overrated team in the country last year because they kept winning all those tight games. He argued that statistically the close wins were eventually going to turn into close losses. Of course, he wrote this article before the Kansas game.

But I'm not sure I necessarily agree with the writer. First, a win is a win. Second, there's something to be said about a team that can win the close ones. (I'm actually paying UD a compliment).

[danaandvictory]

Cheese: I think we will go to the second round again based upon the solid returning base we have and Crawford's skills. Don't think we will struggle as many believe.

I think we may even be better than that, the point was I don't really know. We have a rookie head coach and a lot of new players to work into the rotation. Plus a brutal non-conference schedule that will demand we hit the ground running.

[goodenchiladas]

Is that accurate? If so, WOW. How do you go 50-19 over 2 seasons with only a +15 scoring margin?

21-15 record and +15 point in A-10 play only.

In nonconference play, Dayton was +307 in 33 games. Xavier was +427 (in 3 more games).

[xavierj]

21-15 record and +15 point in A-10 play only.

In nonconference play, Dayton was +307 in 33 games. Xavier was +427 (in 3 more games).



Looks like Dayton needs to toughen the schedule. 21-15 in the A-10 is nothing to write home about. As for Warren you show me a PG who can't score and I will show you a medicore PG. In college PG's have to be able to score to be taken seriously or at least be able to hit a wide open 3 from time to time. The reason UD was so bad against Kansas can be blamed on the ineptness of London Warren. When Xavier play's UD I love when Warren is in the game. If he is top 5 in the A-10 the league is just flat bad at the guard position. My guess is that if Holloway and or Lyon's were at UD they would start ahead of London. Just my 2 cents.

[DC Muskie]

If I was a Dayton, and thank Baby Jesus I am not, I'd be wishing Staten was going to be on the floor this year instead London "10th Row" Warren.

[XU 87]

In all seriousness, UD players under the Gregory regime remind me of X players under the Gillin/Prosser regimes.

That's not necessarily a bad thing. UD hasn't been able to recruit at the same level as X for the past 10 years (that appears to be changing with the past couple talented UD classes). Not having the same luxury as X, Gregory opted to recruit athletic players over skilled players.

I agree. Gregory has recruited players with some limited basketball skills but who are good athletes. And he's had some success in doing so.

[Masterofreality]

London Warren is a good example. He's quick and athletic but he's not a particularly talented basketball player (ie he can't shoot).

"....And there goes another pass flying into the udump student section."

Warren has no regard for human life!!!

[AdamtheFlyer]

No, UD won a lot of close games. I think there was one statistician/writer who called UD the most overrated team in the country last year because they kept winning all those tight games. He argued that statistically the close wins were eventually going to turn into close losses. Of course, he wrote this article before the Kansas game.

But I'm not sure I necessarily agree with the writer. First, a win is a win. Second, there's something to be said about a team that can win the close ones. (I'm actually paying UD a compliment).

You're not really going against my point with your first sentence. They won a lot of close games and lost a few clunkers. That's why the differential was smaller. I was just pointing out that several winning margins were skewed by the coach's discretion, and it effect the bottom line because the sample size is only 30. It's why I don't put a ton of stock into margin of victory or the pythag theory in hoops. That works in baseball with 162 games. In basketball a couple clunkers has a major effect on the number, and generally a minimal effect on reality. Dayton was no worse a basketball team beacuse UMass ran them by 18. They wouldn't have been made better by lead footing St Bona by 30, instead of pulling back and coasting smoothly by 12, which was the final margin.

I agree with your second point. He's technically right, things tend to even out over time, but the logic behind that carrying over into the upcoming season is just laughable. I've seen people here, UDHam and eggers, and on the A10 board say it and I laugh every time. We have no statistical base for next season. "They're bound to lose some close games eventually". Way to be a creative thinker.

[Swifty]

The numbers don't show it.

I don't see how you can say that. Your center's field goal percentage dropped around 15 points last year. Wright had his go down 12 points. That shows that your inside game is suffering a lot.

[PMI]

I hope I'm not the only one who thinks we're going back to the Sweet 16 for a third straight year. Until X lets me down, I have no reason to act like the rest of America and think that we've lost too much and will need a year to regroup. It's been the same story for awhile now. We are the flagship until proven otherwise and I don't expect to take a step back this year.

[BandAid]

Not only am I buying in, I'm doubling down. Dayton is already a lock for the dance, and the rest of the conference is so bad that Atlantic City will be nothing more than a formality.

Seriously, Dayton appears to play to the level of their competition. They may play good against a couple of good teams, but they also play bad against the bad teams. Result: ultimately underwhelming

[PM Thor]

Am I buying it? HA!

All you have to do is look to two starters and know that they overachieved last year vs. a vastly underwhelming schedule.

With London Warren at PG, a guy who hit ZERO 3 pointers last year, and Huelsman, a "big" who actually regressed not only in offensive rebounds but in points, then dayton would be better off with these two on the bench, but the midget didn't do it last year, so what changes? Nothing.

Except their schedule. Will the midget schedule harder, or will he take the cowards way out and ride through a weak ass OOC schedule on smoke and mirrors again?

Let's see when they release their OOC schedule. I know which way I lean about how the midget schedules.

I HATE dayton.

[AdamtheFlyer]

Games at George Mason and New Mexico, PR Shootout (rumored to have Georgia Tech in the first game, a potential top15 team...possibility of meeting Ole Miss and or Villanova in games 2-3), home game with Creighton, game at Miami (always a tough game). They'll have a top 50-60 SOS this year.

[SixFig]

http://www.blogadilla.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/watermelon-helmet.jpg

This Dayton fan buys into it!

[Blueblob4life]

http://www.blogadilla.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/watermelon-helmet.jpg

This Dayton fan buys into it!

she should also buy into a rhinoplasty

[Pablo's Brother]

Am I buying it? HA!

All you have to do is look to two starters and know that they overachieved last year vs. a vastly underwhelming schedule.

With London Warren at PG, a guy who hit ZERO 3 pointers last year, and Huelsman, a "big" who actually regressed not only in offensive rebounds but in points, then dayton would be better off with these two on the bench, but the midget didn't do it last year, so what changes? Nothing.

Except their schedule. Will the midget schedule harder, or will he take the cowards way out and ride through a weak ass OOC schedule on smoke and mirrors again?

Let's see when they release their OOC schedule. I know which way I lean about how the midget schedules.

I HATE dayton.

Cogent, wise, and hateful analysis from the XU bard of our times.

[jcubspoe]

I respectfully disagree. Xavier has talented basketball players. UD has good athletes, who other than Wright, aren't overly talented basketball players.

London Warren is a good example. He's quick and athletic but he's not a particularly talented basketball player (ie he can't shoot).

So Marcus Johnson and Chris Johnson aren't talented basketball players? We only saw glimpses of what a healthy PW can do.

[AdamtheFlyer]

Marcus isn't a naturally talented player, but he's become one with hard work and maybe being a bit of a late bloomer. He got by on his athletic ability his first two years. Chris Johnson is a stud. Gifted athletically and basketball wise.

[xu15]

Games at George Mason and New Mexico, PR Shootout (rumored to have Georgia Tech in the first game, a potential top15 team...possibility of meeting Ole Miss and or Villanova in games 2-3), home game with Creighton, game at Miami (always a tough game). They'll have a top 50-60 SOS this year.

Sorry, but that doesnt impress me. Easily your best chance is the Pr tourney

[Murph85]

Adam the Flyer. I realize your comment on this guy was modest but after seeing him play in person it is hard to believe this guy received a division one scholarship. He is terrible.

Factor in that the guard play at X this year will be the most improved in the history of the school along with continued improvement of Love/Frease, I don't see taking a back seat to Dayton, in fact I see two major ass whippings. Not trying to start a fight here I just see a major difference in talent. Lyons and Crawford will school your guards and the replacements will destroy their counterparts.

Dayton received the home court advantage and caught an X team on an off night last year plain and simple.

I hope Dayton gets better but let's live in the real world.

[AdamtheFlyer]

Adam the Flyer. I realize your comment on this guy was modest but after seeing him play in person it is hard to believe this guy received a division one scholarship. He is terrible.

There is not a single person with an ounce of basketball intelligence that would share your opinion. You're biased against Dayton, so if you did see Kavanaugh play (which is doubtful), you're either playing the message board persona game or lacking basketball intelligence. Virtually everyone says Kavanaugh will be a solid player for Dayton. Not going to be a star, but solid.

[AdamtheFlyer]

Sorry, but that doesnt impress me. Easily your best chance is the Pr tourney

But YOU don't matter. An SOS of 60 isn't great, but it's good. They will be tested. Not here to argue one schedule against another, just pointing out that Dayton's schedule will not be weak.

[XU 87]

There is not a single person with an ounce of basketball intelligence that would share your opinion.

Apparently all the major schools in the area who didn't recruit Mr. Kavanaugh share his opinion. And no, I don't consider Miami (Ohio) and the other MAC school that offered as "major schools".

[BandAid]

There is not a single person with an ounce of basketball intelligence that would share your opinion.


But YOU don't matter. An SOS of 60 isn't great, but it's good. They will be tested.

Getting a lil nippy there, aren't we Adam?

[AdamtheFlyer]

Getting a lil nippy there, aren't we Adam?

Nah. Just pointing out that the first guy is really, really far off base. Laughably off base. And the second comment wasn't a shot at the guy.

[XU 87]

Games at George Mason and New Mexico, PR Shootout (rumored to have Georgia Tech in the first game, a potential top15 team...possibility of meeting Ole Miss and or Villanova in games 2-3), home game with Creighton, game at Miami (always a tough game). They'll have a top 50-60 SOS this year.

Wow! You're going to play at both George Mason AND New Mexico. Are those CBS games? And you have another game at Miami (Ohio)! Wow, what a schedule. We have discussions about getting Miami off our schedule and you proclaim it's one of your biggest OOC games.

And you MIGHT play some Big 6 teams?

But I'll tell you one thing. I doubt X would be doing home and aways with George Mason and New Mexico.

[AdamtheFlyer]

Apparently all the major schools in the area who didn't recruit Mr. Kavanaugh share his opinion. And no, I don't consider Miami (Ohio) and the other MAC school that offered as "major schools".

Guys that verbal before their junior year hardly report further offers to recruiting services. A three star player with multiple offers, as well as interest from WVU, Pitt, and a few others is hardly undeserving of a D-1 scholarship, and is far from "terrible". And yes, Xavier recruited him the summer before he verbaled.

If someone is going to run off a post based on personal opinion when all other facts and opinions go the other way, I'm going to call him out, and probably mock him a bit in doing so.

[AdamtheFlyer]

Wow! You're going to play at both George Mason AND New Mexico. Are those CBS games? And you have another game at Miami (Ohio)! Wow, what a schedule. We have discussions about getting Miami off our schedule and you proclaim it's one of your biggest OOC games.

And you MIGHT play some Big 6 teams?

But I'll tell you one thing. I doubt X would be doing home and aways with George Mason and New Mexico.

You have issues man. Completely incapable of having a discussion without comparing UD to X. You've been rattling off the same line about London Warren for three years. Quite the obsession you have.

[RealDeal]

Hi my name is Adam. I have 737 posts on a Xavier message board. I like to go there and tell posters that they're obsessed with my team. Seriously.

[jcubspoe]

Adam, you're fighting an uphill battle here bud...we appreciate the effort but you're arguing with a small segment of the Xavier fanbase that feel they should be mentioned in the same sentence with UCLA, Kansas, Duke and UNC. Anytime one national thing gets posted about UD, this is the first place I come to because they always have something to say about it....it makes for entertaining reading.

[xufan02]

Adam, I think you are a realist and as a Xavier fan I appreciate your level headed opinion. I also think that Chris Johnson is the real deal. I think he has more potential that Chris Wright, because of his ability to do so many things. BG however needs to get a better schedule. I understand no one wants to play at UD because it is a loss, but that schedule is weak to very weak for a team that on paper is top 15-20.

[PM Thor]

I stole this from the A10 board...daytons supposed schedule...laughable.
HOME
Creighton
Towson
Lehigh
Old Dominion
Presbyterian
Appalachian State
Boston
Ball State

Puerto Rico 3 games....
Georgia Tech, Villanova, Indiana, Kansas State, Mississippi, George Mason, and Boston U

ROAD
New Mexico
Miami OH
George Mason

Wow, this schedule is on par with last years. How about challenging yourselves dayton?
What a freaking joke.

I HATE dayton.

[jcubspoe]

Adam, I think you are a realist and as a Xavier fan I appreciate your level headed opinion. I also think that Chris Johnson is the real deal. I think he has more potential that Chris Wright, because of his ability to do so many things. BG however needs to get a better schedule. I understand no one wants to play at UD because it is a loss, but that schedule is weak to very weak for a team that on paper is top 15-20.

Yes, the schedule is weak again, but X has had some ranked teams in the past and played pretty weak schedules too at the same time. When you are a mid major school you just don't instantly schedule the toughest teams in the country. You have to build these scheduling alliances over years and UD has just now started to get it's name back on the map....give UD 4-5 straight years of NCAA appearances and the schedule becomes better on it's own. In the last 5-6 years we've been willing to play at Duke, UNC, and UL without any of those schools coming to UD Arena. Pitt was willing as is Creighton and George Mason. BCS schools don't want to schedule a team like UD who in recent history has had trouble making the NCAA...these teams won't consider it a "bad loss" if they realize that UD is going to make the NCAA...that's the luxury X has right now and they have earned that. But it's unrealistic for X fans to just say to UD, "you need to schedule better...."

[PM Thor]

No, it's not hard for X fans to say to dayton to "schedule harder". How about playing upper tier teams on the road? It's not hard to take a one and done game if you really try to do so.

One year does not make a trend, obviously, but dayton has had crappy, weak schedules now for two years, but let's go back THREE years, and see what is going on....(per Kenpom)

2007 OOC schedule. Average ranking....148.
Sat Nov 11 (171) Austin Peay W, 78-62 71 Home 1-0
Wed Nov 15 (282) North Carolina A&T W, 79-66 71 Home 2-0
Sat Nov 18 (161) Southern Methodist L, 53-48 63 Away 2-1
Tue Nov 21 (191) Yale W, 73-62 73 Home 3-1
Fri Nov 24 (12) Louisville W, 68-64 63 Neutral 4-1
Tue Nov 28 (295) South Carolina St. W, 67-55 66 Home 5-1
Sat Dec 2 (103) Holy Cross W, 69-53 69 Home 6-1
Wed Dec 6 (41) Creighton W, 60-54 61 Home 7-1
Sat Dec 9 (326) Grambling W, 58-49 63 Home 8-1
Sat Dec 16 (246) Western Carolina W, 66-55 61 Home 9-1
Wed Dec 20 (88) Miami OH W, 56-54 59 Home 10-1
Sat Dec 23 (13) Pittsburgh L, 84-54 68 Away 10-2
Sun Dec 31 (1) North Carolina L, 81-51 77 Away 10-3


2008 OOC schedule. Average ranking....153.
Sat Nov 10 (192) East Tennessee St. W, 78-74 68 Home 1-0
Sat Nov 17 (94) George Mason L, 67-56 63 Away 1-1
Wed Nov 21 (224) Toledo W, 76-70 66 Home 2-1
Sat Nov 24 (248) Southern Methodist W, 82-57 68 Home 3-1
Wed Nov 28 (97) Miami OH W, 63-62 58 Away 4-1
Sat Dec 1 (181) Holy Cross W, 55-53 54 Away 5-1
Wed Dec 5 (199) High Point W, 68-54 63 Home 6-1
Sat Dec 8 (6) Louisville W, 70-65 65 Away 7-1
Sat Dec 15 (310) Coppin St. W, 66-34 56 Home 8-1
Wed Dec 19 (161) American W, 63-56 63 Home 9-1
Sat Dec 22 (172) Loyola MD W, 91-74 72 Home 10-1
Sat Dec 29 (21) Pittsburgh W, 80-55 67 Home 11-1
Wed Jan 2 (87) Akron W, 83-81 78 2OT Home 12-1

2009 OOC schedule. Average ranking....209.
Sun Nov 16 (233) Wofford W, 52-49 63 Home 1-0
Wed Nov 19 (315) Delaware St. W, 62-42 62 Home 2-0
Sun Nov 23 (295) Bethune Cookman W, 78-38 65 Home 3-0
Tue Nov 25 (224) Mercer W, 71-53 62 Home 4-0
Fri Nov 28 (55) Auburn W, 60-59 85 OT Neutral 5-0
Sat Nov 29 (19) Marquette W, 89-75 77 Neutral 6-0
Tue Dec 2 (182) Troy W, 87-70 72 Home 7-0
Sat Dec 6 (92) Akron W, 54-50 64 Away 8-0
Wed Dec 10 (76) Creighton L, 77-59 67 Away 8-1
Sat Dec 13 (266) Coppin St. W, 73-56 66 Home 9-1
Sat Dec 20 (321) NC Greensboro W, 75-44 63 Home 10-1
Tue Dec 23 (151) Marshall W, 62-50 63 Home 11-1
Tue Dec 30 (88) George Mason W, 66-62 65 Home 12-1
Fri Jan 2 (300) Toledo W, 77-63 69 Away 13-1
Tue Jan 6 (107) Miami OH W, 45-40 57 Home 14-1

It sure looks like dayton is regressing in scheduling philosophy, so your "it takes awhile to build a status" doesn't hold water considering that the schedule keeps getting weaker every year.

I HATE dayton.

[MuskieCinci]

I just don't think Dayton really cares about their OOC schedule that much. As long as they have a couple of decent games they are OK with it. The fans still show up for every single game against every single weak ass team. It probably has more to do with the entire athletic department than Brian Gregory's scheduling philosophy but as long as they can at least have their OOC schedule in the top 75 and beat a couple top 50 rpi teams I can live with it. They can still be a good team even with a bum schedule but I don't want to hear any Dayton fans try to defend it because it does suck so they better win in the few big games they have.

As for their team they should be stacked. They were pretty damn good last year and they should only be even better so it isn't crazy to think they might be a top 25 team. I think a lot of Xavier fans are insecure about Xavier being a top 25 team so when someone says Dayton is a top 25 team they are hearing that Dayton is a better team. I think Xavier will be a better team than UD and both will be around the top 25 for most of the year fluctuating between who is the higher ranked team. The Atlantic 10 season will determine who is better.

[SixFig]

OK here we go...Ridiculously early analysis

PG: London Warren = Terrell Holloway...Their stats are very similar, except Holloway can make a 3 point shot

SG: Marcus Johnson = Dante Jackson...Johnson is better on offense, Jackson on defense. If Dante can summon that clutch shooting from the NCAA's lookout.

SF: Chris Johnson (I assume) < Jordan Crawford...The most NBA ready player on our team (see James, Lebron) will reign hellfire on whatever scrubbini plays SF for UD.

PF: Chris Wright > Jamal McClean...You can't win em all. Jamal has a high ceiling though. I expect to see him at the stage Derrick Brown was two years ago.

C: Kurt Huelsman: < Jason Love...Come on really? That 3.6 points a game is intimidating, though.

Bench:
Perry, Lowery, Williams, Fabrizius, Searcy, Benson, Kavanaugh
=
Lyons, Redford, Walsh, Robinson, Taylor, Frease

Though I give the Dayton backcourt credit for veteran savvy, you just can't discount that X has recruited better talent, though still young.

Coach: Gregory > Mack...This advantage should only last for the first few months of the season. By the time the two square off, it should be equal.

[AviatorX]

Some X fans are way underestimating Dayton, but the same is true for Dayton's fans when it comes to evaluating X.

My thoughts: Dayton will be solid, Johnson has potential, Wright is a big time athlete, and they certainly don't have "issues" in the backcourt with Johnson, and the dreadlock twins. Huelsman hasn't lost them any games, yet, and Kavanaugh certainly can't be any worse of an offensive option.

Xavier will surprise. The sheer athleticism of some of Mack's potential lineups is breathtaking. I don't think this the thread to do a detailed breakdown of XU's roster, considering that's been done and will be done many times on this and other threads, but XU will be good, and those abandoning the flagship (mostly other A10 fans, not XU fans -- most remain positive) will be sorry.

Overall, I'd say the teams will split home and home. Although XU has a better chance of winning at UD than the Flyers do of coming out of Cincinnati with a win.

[jcubspoe]

No, it's not hard for X fans to say to dayton to "schedule harder". How about playing upper tier teams on the road? It's not hard to take a one and done game if you really try to do so.

One year does not make a trend, obviously, but dayton has had crappy, weak schedules now for two years, but let's go back THREE years, and see what is going on....(per Kenpom)

2007 OOC schedule. Average ranking....148.
Sat Nov 11 (171) Austin Peay W, 78-62 71 Home 1-0
Wed Nov 15 (282) North Carolina A&T W, 79-66 71 Home 2-0
Sat Nov 18 (161) Southern Methodist L, 53-48 63 Away 2-1
Tue Nov 21 (191) Yale W, 73-62 73 Home 3-1
Fri Nov 24 (12) Louisville W, 68-64 63 Neutral 4-1
Tue Nov 28 (295) South Carolina St. W, 67-55 66 Home 5-1
Sat Dec 2 (103) Holy Cross W, 69-53 69 Home 6-1
Wed Dec 6 (41) Creighton W, 60-54 61 Home 7-1
Sat Dec 9 (326) Grambling W, 58-49 63 Home 8-1
Sat Dec 16 (246) Western Carolina W, 66-55 61 Home 9-1
Wed Dec 20 (88) Miami OH W, 56-54 59 Home 10-1
Sat Dec 23 (13) Pittsburgh L, 84-54 68 Away 10-2
Sun Dec 31 (1) North Carolina L, 81-51 77 Away 10-3


2008 OOC schedule. Average ranking....153.
Sat Nov 10 (192) East Tennessee St. W, 78-74 68 Home 1-0
Sat Nov 17 (94) George Mason L, 67-56 63 Away 1-1
Wed Nov 21 (224) Toledo W, 76-70 66 Home 2-1
Sat Nov 24 (248) Southern Methodist W, 82-57 68 Home 3-1
Wed Nov 28 (97) Miami OH W, 63-62 58 Away 4-1
Sat Dec 1 (181) Holy Cross W, 55-53 54 Away 5-1
Wed Dec 5 (199) High Point W, 68-54 63 Home 6-1
Sat Dec 8 (6) Louisville W, 70-65 65 Away 7-1
Sat Dec 15 (310) Coppin St. W, 66-34 56 Home 8-1
Wed Dec 19 (161) American W, 63-56 63 Home 9-1
Sat Dec 22 (172) Loyola MD W, 91-74 72 Home 10-1
Sat Dec 29 (21) Pittsburgh W, 80-55 67 Home 11-1
Wed Jan 2 (87) Akron W, 83-81 78 2OT Home 12-1

2009 OOC schedule. Average ranking....209.
Sun Nov 16 (233) Wofford W, 52-49 63 Home 1-0
Wed Nov 19 (315) Delaware St. W, 62-42 62 Home 2-0
Sun Nov 23 (295) Bethune Cookman W, 78-38 65 Home 3-0
Tue Nov 25 (224) Mercer W, 71-53 62 Home 4-0
Fri Nov 28 (55) Auburn W, 60-59 85 OT Neutral 5-0
Sat Nov 29 (19) Marquette W, 89-75 77 Neutral 6-0
Tue Dec 2 (182) Troy W, 87-70 72 Home 7-0
Sat Dec 6 (92) Akron W, 54-50 64 Away 8-0
Wed Dec 10 (76) Creighton L, 77-59 67 Away 8-1
Sat Dec 13 (266) Coppin St. W, 73-56 66 Home 9-1
Sat Dec 20 (321) NC Greensboro W, 75-44 63 Home 10-1
Tue Dec 23 (151) Marshall W, 62-50 63 Home 11-1
Tue Dec 30 (88) George Mason W, 66-62 65 Home 12-1
Fri Jan 2 (300) Toledo W, 77-63 69 Away 13-1
Tue Jan 6 (107) Miami OH W, 45-40 57 Home 14-1

It sure looks like dayton is regressing in scheduling philosophy, so your "it takes awhile to build a status" doesn't hold water considering that the schedule keeps getting weaker every year.

I HATE dayton.


PM, you have completely missed the point here. Yes, those are bad schedules. But what in the world has UD done up until the last 2 seasons? Not a darn thing. In one sense, you as an X fan will claim day and night that there's no way UD is in the same camp as a Xavier as far as recent success goes, and you would be right. On the other hand, you scream day and night that UD should schedule like X is RIGHT NOW. Well guess what, it's not going to happen and it's not all BG fault. For the second time, the Top 15 programs in the country just aren't going to schedule home and aways with us right now, not until we make the NCAA or as X did, a couple of Elite 8's. In X's case it took years to get the great schedules you've had the last 3 years.

Now, to your point of scheduling harder on the road....we have done that in the past and got destroyed in those games and never made the NCAA. Lost by 30+ to UNC, Pitt, and Duke...all on the road. So don't say we didn't schedule hard. I think the athletic department realized we have to make a change somewhere to get recognition. First, we just have to make the NCAA and win some games there. We have to get there consistently (as in 4/5 year runs, S16, E8). Second, get involved in some more of these pre season tourny's...Chicago, PR, ect. Those tourny's give us a chance to play good teams on neutral sites. In all honesty, UD basketball had been bad up until the last 2-3 years with an occassional tourny team once every 4 years. I really don't see how you can expect UD to schedule like X is unless you are willing to admit UD is on the same level as X as it stands to day, which you, nor any rational basktball fan won't do, myself included. If UD makes an Elite 8 run and the scheduling continues the way it is, then I'll scratch my head.

[jcubspoe]

Some X fans are way underestimating Dayton, but the same is true for Dayton's fans when it comes to evaluating X.



Very true post Aviator...there's no reason it shouldn't be X and UD battling for one of the Top 3 spots in the A10 this year...these are the two most talented teams in the league.

[boozehound]

Hi my name is Adam. I have 737 posts on a Xavier message board. I like to go there and tell posters that they're obsessed with my team. Seriously.

Aw Snap!!!

[Murph85]

Adam. Contrary to your comment, I did see Kavanaugh play and when I did I had no idea of who he was or who he was to play for in college The game was LaSalle beating his team in the playoffs. When I learned he was going to Dayton I was shocked. Look for about 90% of his weak moves to the basket to be thrown back at his face. He has no hops and no moves to compensate.

LaSalle has minimal D-1 talent. A guy who verballed to UC only to be advised later that he was better off looking elsewhere. They played (he and Kavanugh) about even. Kavanugh had trouble scoring in the first half.

Keep your head straight when you come to the Xavier board. My opinion is this guy is MAC talent at best. I guess we will see if I am proven wrong over the next four years. I hope Dayton is good for the sake of the A-10 but even with a transition period like X is in now we have more talent and a far better coaching staff. (entire coaching staff as a whole) This will translate into better recruits and therefor more success in the big dance.

As coach Mac said last night, Dayton loves to boast of their success in tournaments but they are never the A-10 or NCAA.

[kyxu]

As coach Mac said last night, Dayton loves to boast of their success in tournaments but they are never the A-10 or NCAA.

Is that what he really said?

[Murph85]

He made several quick and pointed jabs at UD.

When asked about Crawford's dunk over LeBron, he was evasive saying he only knows/saw what we saw and then added, " If he can dunk on LeBron I can't see too much of a problem going over Huelsman." Or something very similiar.

He made the Dayton comment after someone asked him about going to UD to play in view of the incident years ago. It was very quick witted.

[kyxu]

Isn't Mack's wife a former Lady Flyer?

[jcubspoe]

Isn't Mack's wife a former Lady Flyer?

I believe you are correct...I thought I heard this a couple of months ago. How ironic.

[crazydave]

This is going to get nasty. Seems like Mack hates Dayton to the core. :D

[AdamtheFlyer]

Some X fans are way underestimating Dayton, but the same is true for Dayton's fans when it comes to evaluating X.

My thoughts: Dayton will be solid, Johnson has potential, Wright is a big time athlete, and they certainly don't have "issues" in the backcourt with Johnson, and the dreadlock twins. Huelsman hasn't lost them any games, yet, and Kavanaugh certainly can't be any worse of an offensive option.

Xavier will surprise. The sheer athleticism of some of Mack's potential lineups is breathtaking. I don't think this the thread to do a detailed breakdown of XU's roster, considering that's been done and will be done many times on this and other threads, but XU will be good, and those abandoning the flagship (mostly other A10 fans, not XU fans -- most remain positive) will be sorry.

Overall, I'd say the teams will split home and home. Although XU has a better chance of winning at UD than the Flyers do of coming out of Cincinnati with a win.

That's pretty much spot on, although I don't think either team has much chance to win on the road. The weaknesses of each don't translate to a win in a big rivalry road game.

Those weaknesses right now would be Dayton's shooting and XU's youthful guards, but provided both teams answer the "ifs" with only moderate success, they will spend a good amount of time in the top 25 and have a single digit seed in March. I expect both teams to do just that. My "inside" guy with UD tells me ESPN is exploring making one of the games a bigger national story than a UD/X game has ever been. We're talking a prime spotlight, Saturday at noon, right after College GameDay. HD, good announcers, talk on Gameday... Outside of Saturday at 8PM and Big Monday, that's as big of a timeslot you can have. The other will probably get an ESPN2 Thursday Night slot. But both will be on ESPN/ESPN2 again this year for sure.

These two teams will be the class of the league, and really, should be for several years to come. Just look at the recruiting.

[AviatorX]

That's pretty much spot on, although I don't think either team has much chance to win on the road. The weaknesses of each don't translate to a win in a big rivalry road game.

Those weaknesses right now would be Dayton's shooting and XU's youthful guards, but provided both teams answer the "ifs" with only moderate success, they will spend a good amount of time in the top 25 and have a single digit seed in March. I expect both teams to do just that. My "inside" guy with UD tells me ESPN is exploring making one of the games a bigger national story than a UD/X game has ever been. We're talking a prime spotlight, Saturday at noon, right after College GameDay. HD, good announcers, talk on Gameday... Outside of Saturday at 8PM and Big Monday, that's as big of a timeslot you can have. The other will probably get an ESPN2 Thursday Night slot. But both will be on ESPN/ESPN2 again this year for sure.

These two teams will be the class of the league, and really, should be for several years to come. Just look at the recruiting.

That's all well and good, but let's just hope we get John Sciambi and Hubert Davis as the announcers, they're the best in the business.

[PM Thor]

PM, you have completely missed the point here. Yes, those are bad schedules. But what in the world has UD done up until the last 2 seasons? Not a darn thing. In one sense, you as an X fan will claim day and night that there's no way UD is in the same camp as a Xavier as far as recent success goes, and you would be right. On the other hand, you scream day and night that UD should schedule like X is RIGHT NOW. Well guess what, it's not going to happen and it's not all BG fault. For the second time, the Top 15 programs in the country just aren't going to schedule home and aways with us right now, not until we make the NCAA or as X did, a couple of Elite 8's. In X's case it took years to get the great schedules you've had the last 3 years.

Now, to your point of scheduling harder on the road....we have done that in the past and got destroyed in those games and never made the NCAA. Lost by 30+ to UNC, Pitt, and Duke...all on the road. So don't say we didn't schedule hard. I think the athletic department realized we have to make a change somewhere to get recognition. First, we just have to make the NCAA and win some games there. We have to get there consistently (as in 4/5 year runs, S16, E8). Second, get involved in some more of these pre season tourny's...Chicago, PR, ect. Those tourny's give us a chance to play good teams on neutral sites. In all honesty, UD basketball had been bad up until the last 2-3 years with an occassional tourny team once every 4 years. I really don't see how you can expect UD to schedule like X is unless you are willing to admit UD is on the same level as X as it stands to day, which you, nor any rational basktball fan won't do, myself included. If UD makes an Elite 8 run and the scheduling continues the way it is, then I'll scratch my head.

Nope cubsie, I never said that dayton should schedule exactly like Xavier. I said they should be scheduling harder than they are currently doing. You say that it takes a couple of years to build up the ability to schedule a more difficult OOC. Sure, but that doesn't explain why the dayton schedule has gotten WEAKER, and next years schedule isn't much better than last years, if at all. If you are purportedly a favorite to win the conference and are coming off of an NCAA tourney first round win, then your schedule should reflect that. daytons is not doing that. It's not comparing it to Xaviers at all.

Like I said, your argument that it takes a while for a program to get a tougher schedule going is pretty weak, considering that teams like Temple and UMass had SoSs rankings 40 points higher than dayton last year. Temples OOC average was 119, UMAss' was 131...daytons? 165.

So, with your logic, Temple and UMass have built up such a reputation that they can schedule harder than dayton can? Do I need to even mention that Duquesne was comparable to daytons schedule, and we all know they haven't done jack in quite a while? So you would expect that last year was simply a fluke of bad scheduling, but this years schedule? Same typical dayton schedule, even with the higher expectations and returning lineup? You can't come up with something better than that?

It's funny, I just realized that dayton fans are now using their tried and true argument for everything, and it even applies to scheduling....

"Wait until next year....then you'll see a real schedule."

I HATE dayton.

[jcubspoe]

Nope cubsie, I never said that dayton should schedule exactly like Xavier. I said they should be scheduling harder than they are currently doing. You say that it takes a couple of years to build up the ability to schedule a more difficult OOC. Sure, but that doesn't explain why the dayton schedule has gotten WEAKER, and next years schedule isn't much better than last years, if at all. If you are purportedly a favorite to win the conference and are coming off of an NCAA tourney first round win, then your schedule should reflect that. daytons is not doing that. It's not comparing it to Xaviers at all.

Like I said, your argument that it takes a while for a program to get a tougher schedule going is pretty weak, considering that teams like Temple and UMass had SoSs rankings 40 points higher than dayton last year. Temples OOC average was 119, UMAss' was 131...daytons? 165.

So, with your logic, Temple and UMass have built up such a reputation that they can schedule harder than dayton can? Do I need to even mention that Duquesne was comparable to daytons schedule, and we all know they haven't done jack in quite a while? So you would expect that last year was simply a fluke of bad scheduling, but this years schedule? Same typical dayton schedule, even with the higher expectations and returning lineup? You can't come up with something better than that?

It's funny, I just realized that dayton fans are now using their tried and true argument for everything, and it even applies to scheduling....

"Wait until next year....then you'll see a real schedule."

I HATE dayton.

This will be my last post on this because as the internet world knows, PM will argue with a tree if it involves Dayton basketball (and the tree will always lose).

It's no secret what UD philosophy has been the last 2 years and going into this season when it comes to scheduling. There have been newspaper articles on where the AD and BG lay out exactly what I just said above in my previous post. Like it or not, this is the strategy UD thinks is the best way to get the program rolling again....the previous 20 years didn't seem to work did it?

Temple and Umass have both had more success then UD in the last 20 years. UD's first, yes first, I'm sure I need not remind you, NCAA win came FOUR MONTHS AGO!! That's leaves tons of time to go out and start scheduling against harder competition, most of who already know who they are playing this year. We already had the PR shootout booked and you can't call that an easy tournament. We had contracts in place with Creighton, Miami, and George Mason and got a last minute one with New Mexico (no easy place to win at). Not really sure what you expect and AD and head coach to do in 4 months when it comes to the following year's schedule.

And no where did I say "wait till next year......" My whole post is based on NCAA success.

But, if your so smart at this and have it all figured out, you can leave your 55K city job down there in Cincy and become an AD at a D1 college and schedule away, making 10-20X what you make down south. Have at it.

[PM Thor]

It's 56,3 that I make after OT.

And I said schedule harder, not weaker, which is what dayton has done over the last three years. I gave examples of how 2 teams, who have had limited success in the last 5 years have out scheduled dayton. I didn't even mention St. Joes nor Fordham.

Yes, Fordham. That team that went 3-25 last year had a more difficult OOC schedule than dayton. Their success in the prior years must be so incredible.

I HATE dayton.

[Masterofreality]

Adam. Contrary to your comment, I did see Kavanaugh play and when I did I had no idea of who he was or who he was to play for in college The game was LaSalle beating his team in the playoffs. When I learned he was going to Dayton I was shocked. Look for about 90% of his weak moves to the basket to be thrown back at his face. He has no hops and no moves to compensate.


Ahhh, in the great tradition of the great past udump Stickmen such as Sean Finn and Kurt Hueslman.

Nice to see that the more things change, the more things stay the same.

[xu15]

Simple answer to this thread: No

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

X and UD will have their work cut out for them this year...

Richmond will be real solid. Lasalle will be real solid. UNCC will be competitive. Duquesne will be competitive. UMass will be competitive. St Joes and Temple will be down and not in serious contention for the title, but are certainly no gimme's.

I think the league is up for grabs this year.

On a side note, a lot of people outside of the Xavier fan club think Jordan Crawford is just a guy who dunked over Lebron. UD/UC and other fans are in for a rude awakening when they play X. The guy can flat out play. Let me reiterate. He may turn into the best SG Xavier has ever had (Sean Miller's words, not mine). Yes we lost D Brown/BJ/CJ....It hurts, but I seem to recall we did just fine after losing Doellman/Cage/Cole. And then Burrell/Lavender/Duncan...Players will step up on this team.

[West is Best]

This will be my last post on this because as the internet world knows, PM will argue with a tree if it involves Dayton basketball (and the tree will always lose).

It's no secret what UD philosophy has been the last 2 years and going into this season when it comes to scheduling. There have been newspaper articles on where the AD and BG lay out exactly what I just said above in my previous post. Like it or not, this is the strategy UD thinks is the best way to get the program rolling again....the previous 20 years didn't seem to work did it?

Temple and Umass have both had more success then UD in the last 20 years. UD's first, yes first, I'm sure I need not remind you, NCAA win came FOUR MONTHS AGO!! That's leaves tons of time to go out and start scheduling against harder competition, most of who already know who they are playing this year. We already had the PR shootout booked and you can't call that an easy tournament. We had contracts in place with Creighton, Miami, and George Mason and got a last minute one with New Mexico (no easy place to win at). Not really sure what you expect and AD and head coach to do in 4 months when it comes to the following year's schedule.

And no where did I say "wait till next year......" My whole post is based on NCAA success.

But, if your so smart at this and have it all figured out, you can leave your 55K city job down there in Cincy and become an AD at a D1 college and schedule away, making 10-20X what you make down south. Have at it.

Just out of curiosity; did this post get jcubspoe banned? Its a little combative, but I don't see any personal attacks or false rumors. I'd hate to see this forum become nothing but Xavier fans. Trying to find a worthwhile post on the basketballforum site is like Where's Waldo? during the offseason.

[PM Thor]

Just out of curiosity; did this post get jcubspoe banned? Its a little combative, but I don't see any personal attacks or false rumors. I'd hate to see this forum become nothing but Xavier fans. Trying to find a worthwhile post on the basketballforum site is like Where's Waldo? during the offseason.

I didn't ban him, nor did I agree with the decision. He got banned for two weeks for attacking me (my pay scale) on top of arguing that I would argue with a tree, as if a tree would ever support dayton in any way. Silly dayton fans, everyone knows Mother Nature loves Xavier.

I HATE dayton.

[kyxu]

I didn't ban him, nor did I agree with the decision. He got banned for two weeks for attacking me (my pay scale) on top of arguing that I would argue with a tree, as if a tree would ever support dayton in any way. Silly dayton fans, everyone knows Mother Nature loves Xavier.

I HATE dayton.

Pretty lame reason to get banned.

(kyxu banned in 3...2...)

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Pretty lame reason to get banned.

(kyxu banned in 3...2...)

I just don't understand how one can be a Dayton AND Cubs fan (although they both are very similar). It seems to me either one by itself would drain you emotionally and take years off your life. There is probably someone out there who is a Browns/UD/Cubs fan(maybe the worst combination of sports teams out there). I would imagine that combination is equivalent to eating 3 McDonalds Big Mac's a day for 5 years straight. One's heart could not take that kind of abuse.