Jay Canty (COMMIT XAVIER)

[Showrunner]

I haven't seen anything on here regarding Jay Canty and I honestly don't know much about him. I was on campus today and saw him in Cintas watching one of the camps. Apparently it was an unofficial visit.

http://depreps.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=2&pr_key=68228

[kyxu]

Canty received a Xavier offer during his visit.

He was previously committed to High Point (uh oh, 87), but left after the coaching change. He's since exploded on the national scene, and is currently ranked #118 in the Rivals 150.

[AviatorX]

We're just lucky Dayton didn't win that recruiting battle with High Point, he might have stayed committed.

[therick44]

Canty looked awesome today with the absence of his best teammate Reggie Bullock (UNC commit). He actually looked to score a lot more and did so successfully. He made two long three's and had some other mid range jumpers to mix it up with his usual aggressive drives. He also had two sweet tip dunks and on the one he literally had his bicep at rim level when he caught the ball... Unreal.

[X Factor]

Canty looked awesome today with the absence of his best teammate Reggie Bullock (UNC commit). He actually looked to score a lot more and did so successfully. He made two long three's and had some other mid range jumpers to mix it up with his usual aggressive drives. He also had two sweet tip dunks and on the one he literally had his bicep at rim level when he caught the ball... Unreal.

Nice! Thanks for the report. From what I've read, the only part of Canty's game that needs work is his jumper and it sounds like he is improving that area.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Nice! Thanks for the report. From what I've read, the only part of Canty's game that needs work is his jumper and it sounds like he is improving that area.

I don't know much about this recruit at all. Evidently the coaches love him defensively. I need to research

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Canty looked awesome today with the absence of his best teammate Reggie Bullock (UNC commit). He actually looked to score a lot more and did so successfully. He made two long three's and had some other mid range jumpers to mix it up with his usual aggressive drives. He also had two sweet tip dunks and on the one he literally had his bicep at rim level when he caught the ball... Unreal.

Oh wow. So he has weatherspoon like hops? I had no idea

[therick44]

Oh wow. So he has weatherspoon like hops? I had no idea

I hate to compare anyone to Weatherspoon when saying jumping because he is on another level, but I'd say he's just a tick below.

[kyxu]

Just saw the story pop up on Brian Snow's page.

http://xavier.rivals.com/default.asp

Yet another great pick-up for Mack and Company. Doesn't sound like the talent is going to drop off from the Miller to Mack era.

Canty is ranked #124 in rivals 150, but could rise.

[The_Mack_Pack]

Hell Yea!!!

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Hell Yea!!!

Oh ya! Welcome to Xavier!! I watched him play in the AAU showcase thing (Should have been called Katz's Korner). But from what I saw he played very well. I am suprised he's not ranked higher. I believe he had 9 points or 11 in the first half on a very good that included Bullock who's an absolute stud going to UNC.

So now we have 1 'ship left. JD/Jones/McKenzie/Martin...Who do you guys think we'll get?

[The_Mack_Pack]

Can he shoot or is he just a slasher? I'm not an insider on Rivals so I would have no clue.

[MuskieCinci]

I am really excited about Canty. He has very good athleticism, I think he will develop into a great player for us. The one knock on him is he needs to develop more of a jump shot. We had a small forward the past 2 years that couldn't make a shot outside of 5 feet so I think he will do alright in our system.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Alleyoop...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJBuZUk2a-Q

Interview...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iamv1Si0yoc
-Averaged 17.5 points/game, 7.2 rebounds, 2.5 steals/game, 2 blocks/game in high school as soph

ESPN Analysis...http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/tracker/player?recruitId=44293&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fncb %2frecruiting%2ftracker%2fplayer%3frecruitId%3d442 93 . Given a grade of 88

[kyxu]

Only problem is that we did steal him away from High Point (sorry, 87).

[MuskieCinci]

From ESPN's description of him:

May, 2009: Canty is a very productive wing player on both ends of the floor. Although his perimeter jumper needs attention he simply makes plays to help his team win. Canty is a good athlete that is athletic. He can finish plays above the rim in transition or with a clear path five on five in the half court. He slashes to the basket with speed and quickness and he has a nice mid range pull up jumper to about 15 feet. He can score through contact and does a great job of drawing fouls with his ability to hang in the air. Canty competes for rebounds and is also a good shot blocker for a perimeter player. He will come to the rescue from the weak side and can also use his good timing on the ball. He ball handling needs to continue to be honed but this high energy stat sheet stuffer is the glue to his team and one to watch this summer season.

He is an athletic athlete apparently, so he's got that going for him.

[bobbiemcgee]

Very few Quality wingmen in 2010, we got one in Canty....nice job Kelsey and Staff!!!

[xsteve1]

More on Canty. Hope we can still get Martin or Jones as well..

http://highmajorscoop.com/2009/08/canty-to-x/

[Jumpy]

Pulling in kids from all over the country. Awesome get, especially considering that he hails from deep in ACC country. I love what this recruiting staff is doing.

[Murph85]

This would almost certainly shuts the door on Weatherspoon.

ESPN does not list any major programs offering on this one. I hope there is more to this kid than most of the experts are seeing. We did manage to pull an underated David West out of Carolina and that worked out ok.

[Masterofreality]

He is an athletic athlete apparently, so he's got that going for him.


Nice that an athlete is athletic. I guess if you have a non-athletic athlete you get:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_xOw0DwAGax0/R173b-Sm_zI/AAAAAAAAADQ/CXIO7bVFpwM/s320/davidwellssi.gif

I would agree that this commitment closes the 'Spoon door. He was probably giving out vibes that he was going with Sullinger to Beaknose's camp anyway.

[xu15]

More on Canty. Hope we can still get Martin or Jones as well..

http://highmajorscoop.com/2009/08/canty-to-x/

I want Jones

[Xman95]

I want Jones

I agree 100%...Jones is at the top of my list.

[Muskie1995]

I think we still can fill 2 more spots with the combo being one of the following:

- Jones/Martin & McKenzie

I think that Jones or Martin will make a decision in the next 3 weeks. Both are shooters and we need to fill that void with Canty on board. McKenzie's decision will take longer since he is slated to visit Vandy on Sept 5th. A McKenzie commitment will help add depth to the 4 spot but his versatility to shoot it from the perimeter would allow for the inside to open up for Frease/Latham

I concur that Weatherspoon is now on the outside looking in. Eventhough JD is a freak athlete, his shot & ball skills need work. I think that landing Canty he can help fill the SF spot in a role like Justin Cage did. Lock down defender that has a knack to find the ball on the rebound.

I'm VERY happy with the Canty committment. Welcome to Xavier Jay!

[Xman95]

This would almost certainly shuts the door on Weatherspoon.

I think 'spoon screwed up big time. It would seem he's out of the plans for X and maybe the door is shutting at OSU as well. Instead of being at a big program in his home state, he might have to play at a smaller Ohio program or go out of state to land a bigger school. Actually, I think he would be wise to look at a rising program like Akron where his athletic ability would work well. (Of course he could still wind up at OSU, but he better not wait too long.)

[bobbiemcgee]

Agree. Jones would seal the deal. We are recruiting some great atheletes....very pleased!!

[DC Muskie]

I think 'spoon screwed up big time. It would seem he's out of the plans for X and maybe the door is shutting at OSU as well. Instead of being at a big program in his home state, he might have to play at a smaller Ohio program or go out of state to land a bigger school. Actually, I think he would be wise to look at a rising program like Akron where his athletic ability would work well. (Of course he could still wind up at OSU, but he better not wait too long.)

Spoon is still very much in the picture.

[boozehound]

Do we really want 2 athletic wings that can't shoot though? Is spoon still in the picture if Jones wants to come to X?

[MuskieCinci]

The decision of whether or not we take Spoon I think depends on how many players the staff wants in 2010. If the staff is just going to settle on 3 then we need someone who can shoot the ball for that third spot and I would like to get another big guy with versatility like McKenzie. If the staff is willing to go with 4 then I think they will go with another wing besides Canty and then a big. Spoon will be more of an undersized power forward who over time will develop into more of a small forward. What I think from reading up on the players the staff is recruiting and who they are pursuing the most I think it is Griffin/Spoon for one of the scholarships and Jones/Martin for the other.

Personally I would still LOVE to get Spoon. A lot of people are jumping off the Air Spoon bandwagon but I don't know what has led to the change. He is an elite level athlete with tons of potential. Now maybe he doesn't quite reach that potential but I have a lot of faith in our staff and it seems like all of our guys are up and comers out to prove themselves. JD has athleticism that not many people have. Imagine these 5 on the court at once in a couple of years, Cheeks, Canty, Spoon, Latham, Mr. Freeze. That line up will be absolutely nasty on defense and will get almost every rebound.

[Juice]

Personally I would still LOVE to get Spoon. A lot of people are jumping off the Air Spoon bandwagon but I don't know what has led to the change.

I think it has to do with his de-commitment.

[xsteve1]

Do we really want 2 athletic wings that can't shoot though? Is spoon still in the picture if Jones wants to come to X?

Spoon is a 4. Speculation is that we have 2 more 2010 spots to give...Mckenzie or Weatherspoon and either Jones or Martin.

[boozehound]

Spoon is a 4. Speculation is that we have 2 more 2010 spots to give...Mckenzie or Weatherspoon and either Jones or Martin.

Forgot that Spoon was a 4. That makes more sense then.

[NotYourOrdinaryXFan]

Do we really want 2 athletic wings that can't shoot though? Is spoon still in the picture if Jones wants to come to X?

X can always use more "athletes" on the team so it's worth a shot. I would think at least one of the two would grow comfortable with their shot as they get better teaching from Mac and Co.

[boozehound]

I agree to a point, I just get a little concerned that if you recruit too many 'raw' athletic types you could end up with a bunch of London Warrens running around really fast and jumping high but throwing up bricks all the time.

[NotYourOrdinaryXFan]

I agree to a point, I just get a little concerned that if you recruit too many 'raw' athletic types you could end up with a bunch of London Warrens running around really fast and jumping high but throwing up bricks all the time.

Agreed. That is the scary part.

[West is Best]

Do we really want 2 athletic wings that can't shoot though? Is spoon still in the picture if Jones wants to come to X?

I don't think there's a problem with a Spoon/Latham/Canty class. All three are athletic, but they are very different types of players.

Also it's not like the 2010 class is on the court by themselves. Crawford, Redford, and Walsh are all very good shooters. Holloway, Lyons, Robinson and Freese could develop as outside threats by the time the 2010 class hits the court. Xavier would just have to empasize recruiting highly skilled players in 2011. At PG, Dee Davis already fits that mold.

The advantage to a Spoon/Latham/Canty class is versatility. Each player can play 2 positions on defense right away. This will give the coaches a lot more flexibility with the remaining 2011 scholarships, so they can focus on taking the best players available.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

MuskieCinci,

I hope we go for 4 players in '10 as well. I don't know how it will work out numbers wise (I guess one person will probably transfer or JC having a great year/going pro or something), but to have any two of martin/jones/weatherspoon/McKenzie would be real nice.

[bobbiemcgee]

I agree to a point, I just get a little concerned that if you recruit too many 'raw' athletic types you could end up with a bunch of London Warrens running around really fast and jumping high but throwing up bricks all the time.

Just wondering....how is it you avg 20 pts. a game as a HS Jr. and can't shoot? Canty might avg 25-28 as a Sr.

[Snipe]

From ESPN's description of him:

May, 2009: Canty is a very productive wing player on both ends of the floor. Although his perimeter jumper needs attention he simply makes plays to help his team win. Canty is a good athlete that is athletic. He can finish plays above the rim in transition or with a clear path five on five in the half court. He slashes to the basket with speed and quickness and he has a nice mid range pull up jumper to about 15 feet. He can score through contact and does a great job of drawing fouls with his ability to hang in the air. Canty competes for rebounds and is also a good shot blocker for a perimeter player. He will come to the rescue from the weak side and can also use his good timing on the ball. He ball handling needs to continue to be honed but this high energy stat sheet stuffer is the glue to his team and one to watch this summer season.

He is an athletic athlete apparently, so he's got that going for him.

Reps to you for making me laugh. Congrats to Canty and the coaching staff. Canty made a solid choice.

[Cincy Muskie]

Jay Canty is a very solid pickup. My understanding is he is deciding on where to attend high school or prep for his final year. I too saw him play in AAU nationals televised on ESPNU. From what I saw of his jumpshot it looked to be fine in form. I am not going to get hung up on that alone though because he sure brings alot to the table.

I would say Weatherspoon is still an option at this point. IF McKenzie had signed with X then 'Spoon's ship MAY have sailed. I would love to add J-Mart and McKenzie to this class. Jamail Jones (to me) seems like Ari Stewart part 2. A great player who we will be involved with up until he makes his pledge.

[boozehound]

Just wondering....how is it you avg 20 pts. a game as a HS Jr. and can't shoot? Canty might avg 25-28 as a Sr.

Depending on the competition and the league you average 20 pts a game by being that much more athletic than the rest of the high school kids you are playing with and against. He may be scoring at will around the basket, but that doesn't mean he is a good shooter and it may not translate to the college level. Don't pretty much all top 150 rivals kids average 20+ a game? They aren't all good shooters. They are the best of the best at the high school level in most aspects of the game, but a SF doesn't have to be knocking down perimeter shots to score double figures.

It's not like I am making up the fact that he isn't a great shooter, it is referenced in almost any write-up that I have seen on him. From what I read it doesn't sound like he is a bad shooter per se, but that his shot needs work. Hopefully it will continue to improve and be a non issue.

I'm glad that we pulled him in and in no way am I saying that he is not a good player or that I'm not happy he is coming to X.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Jay Canty is a very solid pickup. My understanding is he is deciding on where to attend high school or prep for his final year. I too saw him play in AAU nationals televised on ESPNU. From what I saw of his jumpshot it looked to be fine in form. I am not going to get hung up on that alone though because he sure brings alot to the table.

I would say Weatherspoon is still an option at this point. IF McKenzie had signed with X then 'Spoon's ship MAY have sailed. I would love to add J-Mart and McKenzie to this class. Jamail Jones (to me) seems like Ari Stewart part 2. A great player who we will be involved with up until he makes his pledge.

The longer Jones holds out on making a decision, the less chance we have (Just my opinion)...You're right it does seem like Ari part deux. Martin is probably the more realistic option since he nearly committed last time (But by no means is anything definite). Honestly, in reading about JD these last couple months, anything can happen with him. McKenzie we have as good a shot as WFU, vandy, and northwestern.

Like I said before, I'd be happy with any one of those players, let alone 2(if we decide to go that route).

[X Factor]

I've always been a big fan of Spoon, and I still am!

I would love to get a commitment from him.

He has great length, unreal athleticism, and tons of potential. At 6'6, he finishes around the basket by jumping over people and dunking it like someone 6'9. He won't get blocked like CJ. His shot is getting better, and he could move to the SF position in time.

On the other hand, I really like Griffin a lot too, and would be ecstatic if he committed to X.

Give us one of Jones/Martin and Griffin/Spoon and it'll be a great class!

[bobbiemcgee]

Canty's 216 outta 390 (55.3%) is pretty good shooting imho

[xufan02]

Canty and Martin or Jones would secure the SF spot for years to come. I'm pretty sure Martin is going to be visiting Xavier this month.

[Xman95]

Canty's 216 outta 390 (55.3%) is pretty good shooting imho

A high shooting percentage doesn't always mean the guy's a good shooter. Being that he has a rep as a slasher (not the OJ kind), I'm guessing most of his scoring is done around the paint area. But he still has one HS season left so he can do a whole lot of learning/improving before he arrives at X. So it's very possible we'll be getting a complete player.

[StanleyOwnsYou]

Give us one of Jones/Martin and Griffin/Spoon and it'll be a great class!

This is assumming that the staff is willing to take 4 in the 2010 class. BSnow said that while he would for the fact that these are all very talented players capable of making an immediate impact, like the 08 class. But he asos said he can see why they wouldnt want to take 4 in the case of no players transfering or say JC leaves after this year, creating a major problem with enough scholarships.

I would love Jones but agree with most that he could be a reach, thus I'd be more than happy with Martin. When it comes to Grif or Spoon, either would be alright by me, but I feel that Griffin is more likely the one we will land.

[AdamtheFlyer]

Canty's 216 outta 390 (55.3%) is pretty good shooting imho

But where are those shots coming from, and who's defending him? Raw data is never a good barometer.

"Shooting" in the manner being discussed here is overrated anyway. Having a troubled jump shot does not prevent you from putting the ball in the bucket, nor does it prevent someone from filling a vital role on a team.

[Xpectations]

A high shooting percentage doesn't always mean the guy's a good shooter. Being that he has a rep as a slasher (not the OJ kind), I'm guessing most of his scoring is done around the paint area.

To prove that point, Derrick Brown's best shooting percentage season came when his shooting ability was easily at its worst.

[Xpectations]

"Shooting" in the manner being discussed here is overrated anyway. Having a troubled jump shot does not prevent you from putting the ball in the bucket, nor does it prevent someone from filling a vital role on a team.

True, but you need some perimeter shooting threats on the floor to open the floor -- if for no other reason than to get your inside-the-paint guys easier, less contested looks.

Xavier has played for multiple years without their 3 being much of a perimeter threat (Cage for 4 years and CJ the past 2). It worked well because we had 4s (Doellman, and later in his career, Brown) and even a 5 (Duncan) who could open things up by shooting well from 20+ feet.

That said, I'm VERY happy with getting Canty and believe his shooting will continue to develop.

[boozehound]

But where are those shots coming from, and who's defending him? Raw data is never a good barometer.

"Shooting" in the manner being discussed here is overrated anyway. Having a troubled jump shot does not prevent you from putting the ball in the bucket, nor does it prevent someone from filling a vital role on a team.

That is very true. He could be great from 10 feet in and still have a bad jump shot. At that point it really doesn't matter as long as he is putting the ball in the basket. CJ Anderson was a lot like that. His FG % indicates that could be the case. I've never seen him play though, so I don't know.

[AdamtheFlyer]

True, but you need some perimeter shooting threats on the floor to open the floor -- if for no other reason than to get your inside-the-paint guys easier, less contested looks.

Right, but here's the thing...even in college, very few players can do it all. Some can seemingly hit every shot they take (Redford) but lack things in other areas, some can flat out score despite a lesser jump shot (Chris Wright, CJ Anderson), some can't hit anything beyond a layup but can influence a game in several other areas (London Warren). There are probably less than 40 players in the nation right now that can do everything at a better than average clip, while there are who knows how many players that excel.

To me, Canty sounds like a taller Marcus Johnson. If he can develop his jump shot even half as good as Marcus has, he'll be a fine player at X.

[Xman95]

"Shooting" in the manner being discussed here is overrated anyway. Having a troubled jump shot does not prevent you from putting the ball in the bucket, nor does it prevent someone from filling a vital role on a team.

Of course it seems UD has had struggles in recent years because, in part, they couldn't really shoot from the perimeter. Sure, you don't need every player on your roster to be able to knock down 24-footers, but you need shooters. Otherwise a team can just play defense by crowding the paint. Just look at the effect Brad Redford had on defenses because of his ability to bury it from long range.

EDIT: In reading another post of yours, I think you might have been talking more about shooting being overrated when it comes to a player, not a team. You have a good point. When grading/scouting/judging an individual player, lack of shooting ability can be something that doesn't necessarily hurt a player. But I'm guessing you would agree that, when it comes to a team as a whole, having players who can knock it down is very important.

[AdamtheFlyer]

Of course it seems UD has had struggles in recent years because, in part, they couldn't really shoot from the perimeter. Sure, you don't need every player on your roster to be able to knock down 24-footers, but you need shooters. Otherwise a team can just play defense by crowding the paint. Just look at the effect Brad Redford had on defenses because of his ability to bury it from long range.

EDIT: In reading another post of yours, I think you might have been talking more about shooting being overrated when it comes to a player, not a team. You have a good point. When grading/scouting/judging an individual player, lack of shooting ability can be something that doesn't necessarily hurt a player. But I'm guessing you would agree that, when it comes to a team as a whole, having players who can knock it down is very important.

Yeah, in this instance I'm talking an individual player.

Yes and no on the last part. It's important, but certainly not essential. Not to get overly simple, but the game is much more than shooting. That specific trait (jump shooting) is only one aspect of winning. Is shooting the perimeter jumper more important than, say, team rebounding? Or turnover rate? Or FT made/Opponents FT attempted ratio? I personally don't think so, but I really can't say for sure without digging far deeper into the data than I care or have time to do.

As far as how the defense reacts to a single player, there is some merit to it, but not as much as some would believe IMO. You mentioned Redford, and I think most people would just assume that a great shooter = easier looks for the bigs inside...but do we know that to be true? Has anyone actually dug far enough into the data to see what the "splits" so to speak would be (Redford on floor and off)? I know in the first Dayton/Xavier game, UD was able to take Redford out of the game with one defender (Mickey Perry or Paul Williams) and still shut down everyone on the floor but DBrown. But that's one game, and UD threw well above average defenders at Redford that night.

Redford might not be the best example, however. While you always needed to know where he was on the floor, you could eiliminate 75% of the offensive area right off the bat. He wasn't a threat to do anything but shoot threes, so bigs never had to worry about him. Making everyone on the floor have one eye on you does far more damage than one guy having both eyes locked in.

[Cincy Muskie]

Not to get too much off Canty topic but Redford took 123 shots last year - 114 from trey range. He still shot at a 46% clip overall. He impacted defenses in a major way when he was on the floor last year. He pulled people out on the perimeter to guard him and deny the ball. By having him on the floor it does indeed open the lane up, no question there. It is easy to operate with less defenders clogging the lane. Brad will also allow guys like Jordan and Terrell to drive the lane easier when he is on the floor. With more experience and hands at the point guard spot for X this year look for #12 to get even more open looks.

I have a hard time taking anything a guy who says making free throws is not important to winning basketball games ATF. ALL analysts would say that is the easiest stat to look at and see where points were left on the floor.

[bobbiemcgee]

Redford got the ball against Duq. and ALL FIVE DEFENDERS ran to him leaving Kenny open for an easy dunk. Hilarious.

[cheeba]

http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/tracker/player?recruitId=44293&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fncb %2frecruiting%2ftracker%2fplayer%3frecruitId%3d442 93[/URL]

Looks like we got a verbal. SF 6'5" from NC. Ranks at #40 for his position

[Atlas]

http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/tracker/player?recruitId=44293&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fncb %2frecruiting%2ftracker%2fplayer%3frecruitId%3d442 93[/URL]

Looks like we got a verbal. SF 6'5" from NC. Ranks at #40 for his position

This is awesome. He may need to work on his jumper but sounds like a kid who will do what is necessary to help his team win. Good job coach

[bobbiemcgee]

Little late. There's 48 posts since last nite under "recruiting"

[AdamtheFlyer]

I have a hard time taking anything a guy who says making free throws is not important to winning basketball games ATF.


Not what I said.

[FIGHTING MUSKETEER]

"Not to get too much off Canty topic but Redford took 123 shots last year - 114 from trey range. He still shot at a 46% clip overall. He impacted defenses in a major way when he was on the floor last year. He pulled people out on the perimeter to guard him and deny the ball. By having him on the floor it does indeed open the lane up, no question there. It is easy to operate with less defenders clogging the lane. Brad will also allow guys like Jordan and Terrell to drive the lane easier when he is on the floor. With more experience and hands at the point guard spot for X this year look for #12 to get even more open looks.

I have a hard time taking anything a guy who says making free throws is not important to winning basketball games ATF. ALL analysts would say that is the easiest stat to look at and see where points were left on the floor."

I agree with CM but will add that I consider his comment about Redford correct even though Redford is somewhat of a unidimensional player. If he develops the ability to penetrate and shoot or pass the ball, he (and the teamates that will benefit from it ) is/are going to be a headache to other teams.

As to the free throws, I agree 100%. The importance of making FT can not be over emphasized. My only comment will be that sometimes stats dont show the whole story as players that miss the first shot of a 1-1 situation will be shown as 0 from 1 in the stats rather than 0 from 2.

[FIGHTING MUSKETEER]

I agree with CM comment even though Redford is not the best example as he is somewhat of an unidemsional player. If he can only penetrate to shoot or pass the ball, he and his teammates will become a bigger headache for the defense.

I also agree 100% with the free throw comment. Making FT can NOT be overemphasized. My only comment will be that sometimes stats do not tell the whole story because when a player misses the first shot of a 1-1 situation, that will be shown as 0 for 1 in the stats instead of 0 for 2.

[Cincy Muskie]

ATF,

Let me clarify the free throw statement: IF you are the same 'AdamtheFlyer' from the A10 message forum then I distinctly remember a long thread on that forum where free throw shooting came up and ATF saying it was an overrated stat. My response is how can it be overrated? My apologies if you are not one and the same.

Back to Canty I watched the ESPNU replay of the AAU Nationals from Orlando, FL yesterday. Obviously watched Jay with a little more interest. He should be another good to great defender to have on the team and brings plenty of hustle and energy on the 'o' end.

[FIGHTING MUSKETEER]

ATF,

Let me clarify the free throw statement: IF you are the same 'AdamtheFlyer' from the A10 message forum then I distinctly remember a long thread on that forum where free throw shooting came up and ATF saying it was an overrated stat. My response is how can it be overrated? My apologies if you are not one and the same.

Back to Canty I watched the ESPNU replay of the AAU Nationals from Orlando, FL yesterday. Obviously watched Jay with a little more interest. He should be another good to great defender to have on the team and brings plenty of hustle and energy on the 'o' end.

CM, I'm not the same individual. I reaffirm I agree with you that FT are of utmost importance. This year McLean is going to put more minutes and thus will go more to the FT line. He better nail those FT. Our schedule this year is not easy by ant measure, not even the conference schedule. God only knows how many if those games are going to ne won/lost by 5 or less points. My comment on the FT is just a critic to the lack of accuracy on 1 and 1 situations.

[xuwin]

I hope I'm wrong, but, I'm not exactly overwhelmed with our last two committments. We got a 6'9" power forward that averaged 5 points a game in high school and we beat out High Point for a 6'5" small forward that can't shoot. It reminds me of Keith Jackson and Obie Harris all over again.

[???]

I hope I'm wrong, but, I'm not exactly overwhelmed with our last two committments. We got a 6'9" power forward that averaged 5 points a game in high school and we beat out High Point for a 6'5" small forward that can't shoot. It reminds me of Keith Jackson and Obie Harris all over again.

You better be careful what you say here. Reality is not accepted. I have posted a few things that I know about recruits that I know are not going to choose to play at XU or it is at least a long, long shot and I have gotten killed.

I am a UC fan so I understand (although you guys are pretty cool to me when I post an opinion) but you being an XU fan and making it clear that these two recent commitments are not very strong (average at very best) compared to what people expect could cause an uproar.

I personally think that McKenzie could be a good get but it is too early to tell. A couple of good AAU tournaments coming off of his injury but he should be able to get back to where he can utilize all of his talent. I think the XU fans should hope he chooses XU. Good hometown guy to keep around.

[Swifty]

You better be careful what you say here. Reality is not accepted. I have posted a few things that I know about recruits that I know are not going to choose to play at XU or it is at least a long, long shot and I have gotten killed.

I am a UC fan so I understand (although you guys are pretty cool to me when I post an opinion) but you being an XU fan and making it clear that these two recent commitments are not very strong (average at very best) compared to what people expect could cause an uproar.

I personally think that McKenzie could be a good get but it is too early to tell. A couple of good AAU tournaments coming off of his injury but he should be able to get back to where he can utilize all of his talent. I think the XU fans should hope he chooses XU. Good hometown guy to keep around.

How is Canty being a bad pickup reality or "average at best." The guy is a top 150 player, pretty much the exact opposite of average and hardly something to sniff at. The one guy probably on this whole board who has actually seen him (therick44) said when he saw him he drained multiple threes and hit mid range J's in addition to getting to the hoop and being a great athlete. No shooting is not his strength but it is not like he is Jason Love or CJ Anderson, he sounds like he can hit enough 3's to keep people honest (his stats for last year say he hit 35% from downtown and twice had 5 3's in a game, not great but not terrible either). Not everybody we pick up is going to be a Brad Redford.
We essentially traded Miller's recruit (Weatherspoon) for Mack's (Canty), and low and behold Mack's is rated higher, is doing better on the AAU circuit, and can actually shoot a little.

[Jumpy]

How is Canty being a bad pickup reality or "average at best." The guy is a top 150 player, pretty much the exact opposite of average and hardly something to sniff at. The one guy probably on this whole board who has actually seen him (therick44) said when he saw him he drained multiple threes and hit mid range J's in addition to getting to the hoop and being a great athlete. No shooting is not his strength but it is not like he is Jason Love or CJ Anderson, he sounds like he can hit enough 3's to keep people honest (his stats for last year say he hit 35% from downtown and twice had 5 3's in a game, not great but not terrible either). Not everybody we pick up is going to be a Brad Redford.
We essentially traded Miller's recruit (Weatherspoon) for Mack's (Canty), and low and behold Mack's is rated higher, is doing better on the AAU circuit, and can actually shoot a little.

Careful, Swifty. Reality is not easily accepted by remedial UC fans.

[kyxu]

I hope I'm wrong, but, I'm not exactly overwhelmed with our last two committments. We got a 6'9" power forward that averaged 5 points a game in high school and we beat out High Point for a 6'5" small forward that can't shoot. It reminds me of Keith Jackson and Obie Harris all over again.

So go ahead and ignore the top 75 point guard Mack got a few days before Robinson.

C'mon, people. It's understandable to be nervous about a new coach, but if Mack can coach even close to how he can recruit, we're in excellent shape. In November of 2004, Sean Miller didn't have this caliber of classes coming to Xavier.

And people are getting excessively hung up on the fact that Canty had originally committed to High Point. So what?? Dominique Ferguson, the #23 player in the 2010 class, committed to Florida International. Does it make him any less of a player?

Anyone disappointed in the recruiting as a whole since Mack has taken over needs to get a grip.

[XU99deuce]

They aren't scorers, but they are top 150 players. I can name the number of top 150 players we have received commitments from using my fingers and toes. X fans that are suggesting this isn't a good start to this class need to wake the hell up or go root for UK if they want 5 star recruits all the time. As far as UC fans suggesting that it isn't a good start, I'd be worried about your own team and the fact that you have zero 2010 commitments and .5 commitments in the 2011 class. Oh that's right I forgot that Kendrick, Teague, and Payne are all committing soon. Nevermind.

[???]

I have seen Canty play. I should not have called him average at best but I was told that there is a reason that pretty much only High Point was the team to beat. He could turn into a good player. I think that Dee Davis is a great pickup at this point. Robinson is not that good.

Weatherspoon is not very good. XU fans should not care about him. Miller and Matta see something in him but maybe it is just potential, I don't know.

UC has two open scholarships in 2010. I am not worried at all, nor should any fan or their staff be. Do you think that it is a race to sign guys when most are still available. Payne and Teague will not be committing soon. I would not be shocked if Kendrick did. 2011 is a long way off. Several players on the table still.

I am not worried one bit about UC and recruiting or talent. Check out the first class that Mick had time to put together(2007, Anthony McClain, Rashad Bishop, Larry Davis, Darnell Wilks, Alvin Mitchell) It is technically better than any class in XU history if you go by the rankings, which it looks like guys on here like to do. I do not go by rankings after about 30-50!! They have not all proven to be great yet but Mickk had less than one year to recruit them and he beat out schools like Uconn, Pitt, WVU, Tennessee, Florida, etc. Recruiting will never be an issue at UC. It could get scary if Mick can develop players b/c the guy can coach.

[XU 87]

I am not worried one bit about UC and recruiting or talent. Check out the first class that Mick had time to put together(2007, Anthony McClain, Rashad Bishop, Larry Davis, Darnell Wilks, Alvin Mitchell) It is technically better than any class in XU history if you go by the rankings, which it looks like guys on here like to do. I do not go by rankings after about 30-50!! They have not all proven to be great yet but Mickk had less than one year to recruit them and he beat out schools like Uconn, Pitt, WVU, Tennessee, Florida, etc. Recruiting will never be an issue at UC. It could get scary if Mick can develop players b/c the guy can coach.

Is this a joke? Shouldn't Mick first win a few games first before you proclaim how great he has done? And if the guy has such great talent and is such a great coach, why does he lose so much? Bad luck?

[xu15]

I have seen Canty play. I should not have called him average at best but I was told that there is a reason that pretty much only High Point was the team to beat. He could turn into a good player. I think that Dee Davis is a great pickup at this point. Robinson is not that good.

Weatherspoon is not very good. XU fans should not care about him. Miller and Matta see something in him but maybe it is just potential, I don't know.

UC has two open scholarships in 2010. I am not worried at all, nor should any fan or their staff be. Do you think that it is a race to sign guys when most are still available. Payne and Teague will not be committing soon. I would not be shocked if Kendrick did. 2011 is a long way off. Several players on the table still.

I am not worried one bit about UC and recruiting or talent. Check out the first class that Mick had time to put together(2007, Anthony McClain, Rashad Bishop, Larry Davis, Darnell Wilks, Alvin Mitchell) It is technically better than any class in XU history if you go by the rankings, which it looks like guys on here like to do. I do not go by rankings after about 30-50!! They have not all proven to be great yet but Mickk had less than one year to recruit them and he beat out schools like Uconn, Pitt, WVU, Tennessee, Florida, etc. Recruiting will never be an issue at UC. It could get scary if Mick can develop players b/c the guy can coach.
0

Yeah, cuz that class was sooooo good. None of those players are/were above average chief, if even average

[Cincy Muskie]

I just don't see how you can pan a guy rated in the top 150. Sure High Point was an early offer and he accepted it. Big deal. Three of the five guys you mention in your last post ??? are busts. McClain will never contribute at a high level (there is a reason Mick went after Riek and then took Thomas from OKSt.) Mitchell is long gone. Where did he end up BTW? Also Wilks is great in a transition game (awesome dunker) but he hasn't added any strength since he's been there. And if he has it is negligible. Bishop doesn't seem to be getting much better. Davis is a glorified jumpshooter. All said that great recruiting class from '07 has won exactly zero, ZERO conference tournament games. Essentially not much else unless you count the "L" in the Crappy Basketball Invitational.

Now if you want to talk this years recruiting class for UC it is outstanding. IF, IF "Born Ready" is NCAA eligible ready. I would like to mention that every year in Mick's tenure there is a "rescue" recruit. Some never set foot on campus. It started with Hernol Hall, then Adam H, then Mike Williams (McD AA), then John Riek, Cash Wright, and now Stephenson. Again "Born Ready" is a terrific talent and should make the 'Cats an NCAA contender. Mick's best recruits have been Vaughn and Gates. Wright is to be determined. He competed at a very small school in Georgia but showed well in AAU tournaments. Kilpatrick is a solid, solid player but he didn't sniff Rivals top 150. Parker was off the radar (early commit to ODU) and was looking to be reclassified to 2010. These are not the type of prospects (Kilpatrick, Parker) you expect a Big East team not named South Florida or St. John's to be signing.

And a dose of reality for you ???. Adreian Payne and Marcus Teague WILL NEVER commit to UC. Don't hold your breath. You MAY have a shot at Kendrick. Those guys (AP and MT) want to play for a high level coach who will prepare them for the next level. Also JUCO big man (Robert Goff) was quoted in a rivals article that he felt UC's front court players were 'soft' as opposed to the Musketeers frontcourt. Take it for what it's worth. Just one players opinion.

A little more reality for you ???: if you don't make the NCAA tournament this year it is time for a new coach. Huggins took over a very thin team from Tony Yates and by year three of his tenure he was in the Final Four. By year four (Mick's current year) he was making a return trip to the Elite 8. Man the early nineties seem like ancient history. Class of 2011 players were born in '92. I sincerely hope Vaughn gets a chance to play in the NCAA tournament this year because he is a deserving player. Let's hope Mick can coach up the guys around him. Again UC has some terrific pieces in Gates, Vaughn, Stephenson, and Wright. There should be no excuses for lack of postseason success from Clifton.

And I have high hopes for Mack and this staff. The level of recruits they are bringing in is on par if not better than previous staffs at Xavier. Jay Canty will fit in nicely. We needed a wing player. The depth is not in this year's recruiting class (2010) that will yield too many of those. Mack and Kelsey are doing a fine job thus far.

[XU99deuce]

???, defending Mick's recruiting by listing the 2007 is horrible. The 2008 class is a different story. Gates and Cash are good.

Exactly what high profile recruits is Mick getting for 2010? You mention that you aren't worried about it...just curious what names are out there? I heard they are in the mix for Jamail Jones, but that's the only bigger name I have heard they have a realistic shot at...

[Muskie1995]

I hope I'm wrong, but, I'm not exactly overwhelmed with our last two committments. We got a 6'9" power forward that averaged 5 points a game in high school and we beat out High Point for a 6'5" small forward that can't shoot. It reminds me of Keith Jackson and Obie Harris all over again.

I think some can undrstand your skepticism. If somehow X lands McKenzie & Jones or Martin in the next month or so I think that might make you feel better about Canty. Robinson I concur is one to keep an eye on, hopefully he's working hard & doesn't disappoint.

Also, keep in mind that Latham re-commited & X has landed Dee Davis for '11. That pretty solid.

All I can say is try to have faith in Mack & Co. at this time.

[DAllen15]

I'm not disappointed in either the Robinson or Canty signings at this point. We needed depth at PF this year, and Robinson provides that, plus he seems to have an upside which may or may not materialize. But having Taylor AND Robinson behind McLean this year seems to be better than having just Taylor.

Re Canty, I don't see the downside of a hard-working, athletic, defense-oriented, slasher SF recruit. Dexter Bailey really wasn't much of a shooter, either, and CJ certainly wasn't, and X got a lot out of both of them. I expect Canty to be a combo of those two (and eventually with a decent shot), which would be fine.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

I hope I'm wrong, but, I'm not exactly overwhelmed with our last two committments. We got a 6'9" power forward that averaged 5 points a game in high school and we beat out High Point for a 6'5" small forward that can't shoot. It reminds me of Keith Jackson and Obie Harris all over again.

Understand that Robinson is a gamble and on paper he looks weak. But if you did your research, you'd know 1) that he was stuck behind two top 25 PF on his high school team. 2) That X needed Frontcourt depth for this year 3) Most importantly, Purdue and others saw this, Robinson has NBA potential (as stated by many recruiting sites). The problem with him has been mentally adjusting to the game. X has a pretty good track record of developing big men if I remember correctly.

Your 6'5" SF that can't shoot statement is incorrect. He can shoot, but he's not consistent. (he's only a junior). Players do develop. They are capable or proving the recruiting sites wrong. This kid has a motor that does not stop, is extremely competitive, can jump extremely well, very athletic, can slash and score, can hit the 3(streaky), can rebound, and plays great D. Yes he initially committed to High Point before he started turning heads on his talented AAU CP3 team circuit. That's why VT, BC and others were interested.

Griffin McKenzie had a hurt back before and no one really big was recruiting him. I'm sure UC fans and others were saying he's not good enough to play high D1. Then he gets healthy, has some big tournaments, and all the sudden UC and other BCS's are offering and their fans are really high on him. See how it works? You can never write off anyone and players do improve.

[xsteve1]

Griffin McKenzie had a hurt back before and no one really big was recruiting him. I'm sure UC fans and others were saying he's not good enough to play high D1. Then he gets healthy, has some big tournaments, and all the sudden UC and other BCS's are offering and their fans are really high on him. See how it works? You can never write off anyone and players do improve.

And now that McKenzie has eliminated UC, I'm sure UC fans are back to saying he's not good enough.

[West is Best]

Payne and Teague will not be committing soon. I would not be shocked if Kendrick did. 2011 is a long way off. Several players on the table still.

Hate to break it to you... Payne and Teague won't be attending UC.


I do not go by rankings after about 30-50!!

I could say the same thing about Cashmere Wright, and UC fans would rightfully ignore me. Plenty of teams (Xavier especially) have had a lot of success with recruits in the 50-150 range. Just because Canty isn't a 5 star doesn't mean he won't make an impact.

[Muskie1995]

Actually they say "it's no big loss" since they are not in his final 4. Which it very well could be for UC if they can land a player of a similiar caliber.

[ChicagoX]

I hope I'm wrong, but, I'm not exactly overwhelmed with our last two committments. We got a 6'9" power forward that averaged 5 points a game in high school and we beat out High Point for a 6'5" small forward that can't shoot. It reminds me of Keith Jackson and Obie Harris all over again.

I tend to agree with you on this, too. Although I'm thrilled that Latham recommitted and Davis is now on board, too, Canty doesn't excite me that much. I just don't remember him being on a "hot list" of priority guys we were hoping to get, and I feel like we might have just "settled" on him since he was available and interested. I'll feel a lot better about things if Mack can get McKenzie, Jones or Martin on board, too. We need some star power around him, because I see more of a role player in Canty than a game changer.

As for Robinson, he was a last-minute insurance policy to rebound, play defense and get some garbage buckets, so if he can do that when McLean is on the bench, I'll be fine with him. With Brown going pro, it was a no-lose situation to at least give this guy a shot and have some depth at the PF spot.

[More Cowbell]

The Robinson pickup is a great move. Either he stays all four years and plays a significant amount or he could transfer after a couple years if he is not getting enough minutes.

[XU 87]

I tend to agree with you on this, too. Although I'm thrilled that Latham recommitted and Davis is now on board, too, McCanty doesn't excite me that much.

Snow over on Rivals says Canty is VERY athletic. But he needs to work on his shot. Snow compared him to Darnell Williams when Williams first got to Xavier. And don't forget, Williams developed a pretty good jump shot.

Mack has shown so far that he just doesn't give out scholarships for the sake of getting a player (see Brian Hale). And while I will take a "wait and see" attitude with Canty, he appears to be a pretty good signing from what I've read. And based on recent past history, most Xavier players have shown some pretty good improvement while at X.

[bobbiemcgee]

I tend to agree with you on this, too. Although I'm thrilled that Latham recommitted and Davis is now on board, too, McCanty doesn't excite me that much. I just don't remember him being on a "hot list" of priority guys we were hoping to get, and I feel like we might have just "settled" on him since he was available and interested. I'll feel a lot better about things if Mack can get McKenzie, Jones or Martin on board, too. We need some star power around him, because I see more of a role player in McCanty than a game changer.

As for Robinson, he was a last-minute insurance policy to rebound, play defense and get some garbage buckets, so if he can do that when McLean is on the bench, I'll be fine with him. With Brown going pro, it was a no-lose situation to at least give this guy a shot and have some depth at the PF spot.

So Canty needs to work on his jump shot....so what? He shot 216 out of 390 last year, over 55%, if he makes a few more jump shots this year instead of layups will he be a rivals top 10? "Poor shooter"? Don't think so.

Robinson was brought in just as stated above when it was apparent D Brown (oh, wasn't he a redshirt frosh once?) would go pro. Painter seemed to like him at one time:

Purdue coach Matt Painter's take: "Jeff gives us a long athletic forward that can really run the floor. He's a guy that was at the NBA Top 100 camp and was one of the top rebounders at the camp, which shows against very good competition he can rebound at a very high level. He's a guy that has unbelievable potential."

Robinson is here to provide rebounding help his first year. I think it was a great move. It will work out or it won't, just like Graves or Odia, or it could be another DBrownesque move. Time will tell, but it was worth a 'ship for sure. If Robinson can rebound with the top 100, we got a deal for a "fill in" type player right now.

[Xman95]

We need some star power around him, because I see more of a role player in McCanty than a game changer.

First, it's Canty. Second, you may well be correct that we need more star power around him. But, guess what, not everyone on UNC this last season was a future NBA All-Star. Teams need role players and guys who aren't concerned with being The Man. With an improved shot, maybe Canty turns out to be a player similar to Danny Green (only a little shorter). It seems he's very athletic and is already a pretty good player. Now it will be up to Mack and Co. to continue his development.

Also, for those concerned about the High Point commitment, it seems that he made that because he wanted to stay closer to home at that time (and I think HP is like 15 minutes from his family). The coach he committed to is no longer there, so he looked at other options. Being that his stock was on the rise, a program like Xavier was now one of those options.

[ud2009]

A few thoughts on both UC and X here from your good friend at UD.

Xavier.

Canty. I have never seen him play so I will not comment. Probably a wise move to take him over the Spoon man.
Robinson. Did not look good when I have seen him play. I would say you will have to wait until he is a junior at least before he can contribute.
Davis. Great signing. Going to be a very very good player.
Jordan L. Never seen him play but his stock has been going down not up by the so called experts. Did he have an injury or something last year I read? Probably going to be a good 4 year Xavier player.

Mckenzie. UC never recruited this kid and offered at the Adidas Take 5 event. X has been on him all along. I would say you are looking at a Justin Doelman type player with a better shot. He will be good for X. UC fans that I know seem to not care one way or another about getting him but they think he is a good player. I think X gets him

Martin. Good player. Potential stud. His grades are laughable from what I have heard. He needs to suddenly become a scholar his senior year to qualify. Lets say there are issues with him and going to class. Not the student you Xavier boys would like to have at your school but a good player. I also think X can get him.

Jones. I like him better than Martin but the longer his recruiting goes on the harder he is going to be for X to get. If X gets him somehow that would be huge.

If X can get Martin/Jones, Mckenzie, Jordan, and Canty that is a darn good class. My only concern is that X needs a big man to help Freeze out.

Now to UC.
Lance. Probably the best player behind John Wall in the class of 2009. A program changer. Hands down a lottery pick in the NBA down the road. Worth every bit the risk. If he does not qualify big blow to UC's fans but I still think without Lance UC is a tourney team. With him if Mick can mold the team a potential sweet 16 or farther team. If he is eligible you will see the floodgates open up and big time players start coming to UC. Lance is an idol to alot of young kids who are going through AAU ball. But remember he has to get eligible.

I don't know anything about Kilpatrick.

Parker. UC stole this guy. He was supposed to be a 2010 recruit and UConn and Georgetown were on this kid hard. If he would have stayed one more year of high school he would have been a high 4 star recruit.

As far as UC 2010 the only thing I have heard is that Jalen Kendrick really likes UC and they will have as good of a shot as any other team.

Both of your programs are going in the right direction as in mine. I hate both of your teams for the record but I feel I just gave a pretty fair assessment of both of your recruiting classes.

By the way I know my spelling is horrible because I am typing so fast.

[bobbiemcgee]

Comments from the UDumpster always appreciated.

[???]

Hate to break it to you... Payne and Teague won't be attending UC.



I could say the same thing about Cashmere Wright, and UC fans would rightfully ignore me. Plenty of teams (Xavier especially) have had a lot of success with recruits in the 50-150 range. Just because Canty isn't a 5 star doesn't mean he won't make an impact.

I agree on both of these points. I do not put much stock in a guys stars or ranking after around number 50(Huggins developed several good players outside of this range and the "150" BS) I also do not think that Teague or Payne will be attending UC. I am glad I could post something that you agree with.

I also agree that the UC 2007 class has not panned out entirely(some due to injury and attitudes) but that is my point about it being better than most XU classes have been. They are not that solid. XU has had some damn good coaches that got alot out of players. Miller had alot of transfers to help him out too.

I would not be in the group of UC fans that do not think McKenzie is good enough. He looked good when I saw him this summer. XU was smart to be on him the entire time. UC, OSU and some others jumped in late and got the treatment(Although Kelsey being involved with him while at Wake is just bad luck for XU). It happens. I think if he chooses XU it is the best verbal they will have at this point for the near future. As I mentioned, Dee Davis looks solid but time will tell.

Not here to start trouble. Just posting an opinion on the players that XU has gotten this summer. It is just honesty. I have no idea how well Mack will do with players. If he is anything like past coaches at XU, he will do just fine.

[ud2009]

Thanks Bobbie. I am just waiting for a player to commit to Ohio State or some other team and you say we can do better. At that point I will have to come in and get you back to reality again.

[bobbiemcgee]

Thanks Bobbie. I am just waiting for a player to commit to Ohio State or some other team and you say we can do better. At that point I will have to come in and get you back to reality again.

Guess you're talking about this guy. We'll sse who is better.
"Sidicki Johnson averaged 11 points and 10 rebounds last season at St. Ray’s'." Not exactly another Lance.

[Muskie1995]

Jordan L. Never seen him play but his stock has been going down not up by the so called experts. Did he have an injury or something last year I read? Probably going to be a good 4 year Xavier player.

Jordan Latham did have an injury and is recently back to 100% health. And as you said he'll be a very solid 4 yr player for Xavier and that's what XU needs.

[Swifty]

If people were smart they would be glad Canty doesn't have a top notch jump shot right now. Because if the guy had a great jump shot, in addition to having a good motor and being very athletic he would be a lot higher up in the rankings and probably be attending an ACC school. Somebody said we do great with guys like this near the end of the top 150, and they were exactly right. We get guys like Brown, Duncan, Doellman, and Raymond, who do have weaknesses and then over the course of their stay here we work with them on their weaknesses and then gradually they will become important pieces of the team. Canty won't be playing huge minutes at first, but by the time he is a Junior or so it is my bet that he will be a significant player on the team. That just how it works at Xavier.

[XU 87]

I also agree that the UC 2007 class has not panned out entirely(some due to injury and attitudes) but that is my point about it being better than most XU classes have been. They are not that solid. XU has had some damn good coaches that got alot out of players. Miller had alot of transfers to help him out too.



Before Matta, I would agree about the "not that solid" remark for certain recruiting classes. Even then, Prosser got some pretty good players (See David West). But since then, Matta and particularly Miller upped the recruiting. The recruits they have gotten in the last 5 years are usually top 150 players and these kids usually have offers from major, or close to major programs. Xavier isn't usually recruiting kids anymore who aren't also being recruited by Big 6 programs, and usually good Big 6 programs.

Yes, Miller had some transfers. But so what? The transfers all could play (McClean, Anderson and Lavender to name a few.). And I heard that Jordan Crawford kid can play.

[bobbiemcgee]

Before Matta, I would agree about the "not that solid" remark for certain recruiting classes. Even then, Prosser got some pretty good players (See David West). But since then, Matta and particularly Miller upped the recruiting. The recruits they have gotten in the last 5 years are usually top 150 players and these kids usually have offers from major, or close to major programs. Xavier isn't usually recruiting kids anymore who aren't also being recruited by Big 6 programs, and usually good Big 6 programs.

Yes, Miller had some transfers. But so what? The transfers all could play (McClean, Anderson and Lavender to name a few.)

Yep, and we could get another solid transfer, who knows? Keep a 'ship around just in case. Like it or not, XU a tiny school with maybe 10% of the enrollment of these huge institutions we go up against in recruiting, has done exceptionally well. We don't have 2 million in booster money to throw around every year, so we can't make a lot of mistakes. Over the last 5 yrs., we have recruited pretty close to an even playing field with the #10-20 teams in the country and the results show it. Will a bunch of "one and dones" be attracted to X? Not a chance.

[???]

Yep, and we could get another solid transfer, who knows? Keep a 'ship around just in case. Like it or not, XU a tiny school with maybe 10% of the enrollment of these huge institutions we go up against in recruiting, has done exceptionally well. We don't have 2 million in booster money to throw around every year, so we can't make a lot of mistakes. Over the last 5 yrs., we have recruited pretty close to an even playing field with the #10-20 teams in the country and the results show it. Will a bunch of "one and dones" be attracted to X? Not a chance.

I am not knocking the transfers. Trust me. I was just pointing out that it helps out in certain cases. UC has had several transfers that made big impacts and I am glad they came. There is still recruiting involved with a transfer. UC getting I. Thomas this year should be a big help. I am not trying to discount the jobs of the past coaches, I think the coaches have been very, very solid at XU in my lifetime.

[xuwin]

The Robinson pickup is a great move. Either he stays all four years and plays a significant amount or he could transfer after a couple years if he is not getting enough minutes.

There is also a strong possibility that he will eat up a 4 year scholarship and not contribute anything at all.

[gladdenguy]

You better be careful what you say here. Reality is not accepted. I have posted a few things that I know about recruits that I know are not going to choose to play at XU or it is at least a long, long shot and I have gotten killed.

I am a UC fan so I understand (although you guys are pretty cool to me when I post an opinion) but you being an XU fan and making it clear that these two recent commitments are not very strong (average at very best) compared to what people expect could cause an uproar.

I personally think that McKenzie could be a good get but it is too early to tell. A couple of good AAU tournaments coming off of his injury but he should be able to get back to where he can utilize all of his talent. I think the XU fans should hope he chooses XU. Good hometown guy to keep around.

To not be excited about 2 top 125 recruits is beyond me.
For example, look at UC, since UC is your favorite team, they have nobody for 2010 and really nobody on the radar. It could be much worse.
But thats the point, its not even bad, its 2 top 125 recruits for crying out loud. As far as I'm concerned, anybody outside the top 20 or top 25 all the way down to 150 can be as good as their development. We've seen that plenty at Xavier. Xavier has turned many players who were supposed to be average at best to "very good" players who experienced great postseason success and extremely successful basketball careers beyond college.

[bobbiemcgee]

There is also a strong possibility that he will eat up a 4 year scholarship and not contribute anything at all.

These guys have a way of disappearing on their own if they can't cut it, i.e. Odia, Graves, Johnny Wolf, etc,etc. They all thought they could play elsewhere.

[???]

they have nobody for 2010 and really nobody on the radar.

Not true about the radar. They have two, maybe three scholarships to fill and they will fill them.

[XU99deuce]

Trolls are awesome.

[???]

Trolls are awesome.

I have posted on here more than once and I bring basketball conversation every time. Sometimes they are facts and sometimes they are opinions. Either way, I never rip XU or the fans and just try to keep up on what is going on with the school across town.

[ud2009]

Gladden Guy. You should be excited about two top 150 players no doubt.

I am not here to defend UC. I frankly hate them as much as you do but they have alot of players on the radar. I am sort of a recruiting junky for all teams and follow it every day.

They have a bunch of top 50 players on their list. My fear is that if they get Lance and have a good season they will start getting top 50 players every year again. Kids are starting to really like UC again and Mick Cronin is one of the best recruiters in the country. Whether he can develop players and win in March remains to be seen.

[XU99deuce]

I have posted on here more than once and I bring basketball conversation every time. Sometimes they are facts and sometimes they are opinions. Either way, I never rip XU or the fans and just try to keep up on what is going on with the school across town.

Generally, you have been ok and don't deserve to be called a troll. But right now, you really don't know what you are talking about when discussing XU recruiting.

[???]

Generally, you have been ok and don't deserve to be called a troll. But right now, you really don't know what you are talking about when discussing XU recruiting.

I have not acted like I know anything more than the obvious about XU recruiting. I get information regarding recruiting from some pretty good sources for most colleges in the area. XU, UL, OSU, IU, UC, UD, UK.

Below is something I posted a few months back and it was information directly from a few people in the know regarding XU. This is the only thing I have posted about what is going on with XU recruiting besides what has been announced. Everything else has pretty much been an opinion or reality.



I realize following recruiting is interesting and can be fun, however the following players are not going to sign with Xavier. Don't shoot the messenger, I am not trying to be rude or disrespectful.

JD Weatherspoon
Doron Lamb
Will Barton
Adrien Payne
Justin Martin
Jamil Jones
Jalen Kendrick
Jason Morris

Transfer- Noel Johnson. (not a transfer)

Jordan Latham is a possibility.

The 2009 class is pretty much complete. There could be one juco coming in but it is not for sure. He is a big man.

I was given this information tonight as far as what is realistic next year and what could still come in for 2009.
??? is offline Reply With Quote

[XU99deuce]

I have not acted like I know anything more than the obvious about XU recruiting. I get information regarding recruiting from some pretty good sources for most colleges in the area. XU, UL, OSU, IU, UC, UD, UK.

Below is something I posted a few months back and it was information directly from a few people in the know regarding XU. This is the only thing I have posted about what is going on with XU recruiting besides what has been announced. Everything else has pretty much been an opinion or reality.



I realize following recruiting is interesting and can be fun, however the following players are not going to sign with Xavier. Don't shoot the messenger, I am not trying to be rude or disrespectful.

JD Weatherspoon
Doron Lamb
Will Barton
Adrien Payne
Justin Martin
Jamil Jones
Jalen Kendrick
Jason Morris

??? is offline Reply With Quote

Again, you are flat wrong to say there is no shot on Jamail Jones and Justin Martin. I'm not saying one or the other will end up at X, but we are without question in the hunt for them. When you say things like this, it discredits you.

JD Weatherspoon was 50/50 before July. There were no realistic expectations on the other recruits you mentioned.

This is actually a very trollish comment anyway. "Hey X fans, UC fan here. Here is a list of recruits that you aren't going to get."

[More Cowbell]

Just a couple questions. Who are these sources that know so much more than Snow? Why is a Dayton/UC fan posting at xavierhoops.com?

[bobbiemcgee]

Every guy you mentioned, excepy Spoon, of course, has about a dozen offers and is rated 95 or better. So Duh. But i guess they all can't go to UK.

[ud2009]

Brian Snow is a good reporter. Remember that he goes to many other schools boards not just Xavier's. He may go to X's board and say that things are looking good for X with J. Jones and then go to UC's board and say the same thing. It is all about selling subscriptions guys.

B. Snow knows his stuff but take it with a grain of salt. At the end of the day nobody knows where these guys are going until it comes from the players mouth. Also I laugh everytime I hear that some recruit told a coach that their school is their favorite at an AAU event. What do you think they are going to say?

Again I reference Adrian Payne. Told UD coaches that UD was his favorite several times according to "sources close to the program."We did not make his final 5 when it was all said and done.

X has a better shot at Martin than Jones from what I have been told. I think Martin could be a Muskie because of his tight relationship with Steele. He just has to get his grades in order. He is not a good student to say the least.

[XU99deuce]

Brian Snow is a good reporter. Remember that he goes to many other schools boards not just Xavier's. He may go to X's board and say that things are looking good for X with J. Jones and then go to UC's board and say the same thing. It is all about selling subscriptions guys.


X has a better shot at Martin than Jones from what I have been told. I think Martin could be a Muskie because of his tight relationship with Steele. He just has to get his grades in order. He is not a good student to say the least.

If he did what you described, he would have lost creditibility a long time ago. He's pretty honest. If he feels like its a longshot, but we are still rectruiting him anyway (eg Barton), he'll let you know. At the end of the day, he can't possibly know what the recruits themselves don't know - where they are attending school. However, if there is any buzz about where a kid is leaning, he'll let you know.

I'll agree we probably have a better shot with Martin.

[xufan02]

Canty is a very solid prospect and I'm excited to see him develop once he gets to XU. I pulled his stats from last season and he shot 34% from deep. Although he is not a marksman yet, he will have plenty of time to work on his shot. I also agree with another poster who said, that if Jay Canty had a great jump shot already, there is no way he would have gotten out of ACC country. Now all we need is a marksman/scorer to round out the class.

http://www.maxpreps.com/athletes/GE_hUZ9Yr02rcH5630jOow/basketball-winter-08-09/stats-jay-canty.htm

[???]

If he did what you described, he would have lost creditibility a long time ago. He's pretty honest. If he feels like its a longshot, but we are still rectruiting him anyway (eg Barton), he'll let you know. At the end of the day, he can't possibly know what the recruits themselves don't know - where they are attending school. However, if there is any buzz about where a kid is leaning, he'll let you know.

I'll agree we probably have a better shot with Martin.

My comments came form a thread started about Noel Johnson. The night of or before I posted that I spoke with someone who knows the details about XU recruits(That is all I will ever say). I posted it in a Noel Johnson thread when XU was looking at him. I posted the exact recruits I was told about. Pretty much the bigger names with XU on the list.

That night I was told not only did XU not have a shot at Justin Martin, but nobody did b/c of his grades.(UDfan is on this). His de-commit from UL was not one sided, he may not qualify.

If XU can find a way to get him qualified or on the bench as a partial, then they probably have a shot. Maybe things have changed with his grades but the people I know still say differently.

J. Jones- If he is not considering any SEC schools or Big East schools then he changed his mind quick. If it comes down to the XU/ Marquette scenario that I hear the X fans talk about, I will be wrong about what I was told. So far so good though.

[X Factor]

Just stop posting here. Who signs up on a message board as ???. What, you couldn't think of any number of infinite names to use?

The internet allows any tool to think they're an expert on everything.

Your act is getting old real quick.

[Xman95]

CM, I'm not the same individual.

FM, I believe Cincy's post was intended for Adamtheflyer (ATF).

[AdamtheFlyer]

ATF,

Let me clarify the free throw statement: IF you are the same 'AdamtheFlyer' from the A10 message forum then I distinctly remember a long thread on that forum where free throw shooting came up and ATF saying it was an overrated stat. My response is how can it be overrated? My apologies if you are not one and the same.

Team free throw percentage is an overrated stat, and a stat people use wrong 99% of the time anyway. People take team percentage and apply it to an end of game situation where maybe three players will actually get the ball to shoot a FT, and the sample goes from the hundreds down to less than 10.

And not only that, FT percentage has a lower correlation to winning than simply getting to the FT line. I remember being somewhat challenged by Blue Dog, so I actually set about to prove my theory. Before getting really, really bored and simply having too much to do in my real life to sit and go through games, I looked at about 200 different games from several A10 teams. I don't remember the exact numbers (lost the spreadsheet when I got a new laptop) but they did support my theory. Something like 55% of the time the team that shot FT's at a higher percentage won, while 75% of the time the team that attempted at least 10 FTs more than the opponent (to minimize the effect of end of game fouling) won the game.

That told me that FT percentage isn't nearly as important as attempting more FTs, because a team going 10-12 doesn't effect the overall game as much as a team that goes 18-30. If the opponent is fouling you more, that will lead to them playing the backups against your top players for more of the game. It will lead to their starters playing more loose on defense and will force them to play more help defense...all things that lead to better shot quality.

I never said making FTs wasn't important. Of course it is, anything that can give you points is important. And in a late game scenario the team that leads needs to make FTs because often times they're given no other option of scoring points. I said that all along. My point from day 1 has been that raw FT percentage is overrated in the same manner that raw assists and raw points are overrated individual stats. There are other stats that show a greater effect on a game and a better correlation to wins.

[Xman95]

That told me that FT percentage isn't nearly as important as attempting more FTs, because a team going 10-12 doesn't effect the overall game as much as a team that goes 18-30. If the opponent is fouling you more, that will lead to them playing the backups against your top players for more of the game. It will lead to their starters playing more loose on defense and will force them to play more help defense...all things that lead to better shot quality.

Please, please, please tell me Brian Gregory is going to hire you as an assistant!

Did you ever think that many times the team with at least 10 more FT's was able to gain that edge because they were winning toward the end of the game and the other team was fouling on purpose? Seems like having a lead, then getting to the line, and then hitting the FT's would lead to a larger margin in attempts and victory. But, if a team can't hit those free throws, they often time won't win the game.

Shooting isn't important, free throw shooting isn't important... I can't wait for your next piece of wisdom. "I did a study on the number of times a team with more points actually beat the team with fewer points and the research supported my claim that scoring more points than your opponent was overrated."

[bobbiemcgee]

Yes, teams scoring an avg of 1 more point on a per game basis than their opponents usually won.....whaaaaaa.....?

[AdamtheFlyer]

Please, please, please tell me Brian Gregory is going to hire you as an assistant!

Did you ever think that many times the team with at least 10 more FT's was able to gain that edge because they were winning toward the end of the game and the other team was fouling on purpose?

That's why I chose 10 as the minimum number. Most of the games had differences well above 10 and approaching 20, and winning margins that were well above the need to foul late in the game, because that's how most games play out. I feel pretty safe in saying that FT percentage had little to no effect in the outcome.

You're taking a micro scenario and applying it as if it were macro. How many games do you really think come down to the point that FT shooting is a stand out factor? Not "team down by 8 so they last ditch foul with 40 seconds left". I'm talking a back and forth game to the final minute. Be logical and honest...10%, if even that much? What about the other 90%? Would making a few extra FTs matter in those games? Probably not, and certainly not as much as turnovers, rebounds, fouls, etc...

That's my point. Don't take a missed FT late in a close game and somehow make that out to a team that hits 67% of their FTs as having a significantly less chance to win over the long haul as a team that shoots 77%. It's just not true.

[Xman95]

That's why I chose 10 as the minimum number. Most of the games had differences well above 10 and approaching 20, and winning margins that were well above the need to foul late in the game, because that's how most games play out. I feel pretty safe in saying that FT percentage had little to no effect in the outcome.

You're taking a micro scenario and applying it as if it were macro. How many games do you really think come down to the point that FT shooting is a stand out factor? Not "team down by 8 so they last ditch foul with 40 seconds left". I'm talking a back and forth game to the final minute. Be logical and honest...10%, if even that much? What about the other 90%? Would making a few extra FTs matter in those games? Probably not, and certainly not as much as turnovers, rebounds, fouls, etc...

That's my point. Don't take a missed FT late in a close game and somehow make that out to a team that hits 67% of their FTs as having a significantly less chance to win over the long haul as a team that shoots 77%. It's just not true.

In games when teams shoot 10+ FT's more than the opponent that didn't involve late fouling to achieve that margin, did you ever think that maybe the number of fouls being committed had to do with the fact that the winning team just happened to be superior? Often times a team that isn't as good fouls more because they lack the quickness and skill to defend the better team. However, if the better team can't shoot free throws well it will keep the lesser team in the game.

Look, just being good from the line doesn't mean you're going to win. But it can give you a huge advantage if you're good at it.

Trying to break games down by showing how one stat generally is the cause of a win or loss is useless. The outcome is affected by many, many factors. But to say that things like shooting and free throw shooting aren't important, that's just stupid.

[Cincy Muskie]

The outcome is affected by many, many factors. But to say that things like shooting and free throw shooting aren't important, that's just stupid.[/QUOTE]

Thank you.

[Cincy Muskie]

In games when teams shoot 10+ FT's more than the opponent that didn't involve late fouling to achieve that margin, did you ever think that maybe the number of fouls being committed had to do with the fact that the winning team just happened to be superior? Often times a team that isn't as good fouls more because they lack the quickness and skill to defend the better team. However, if the better team can't shoot free throws well it will keep the lesser team in the game.

Look, just being good from the line doesn't mean you're going to win. But it can give you a huge advantage if you're good at it.

Trying to break games down by showing how one stat generally is the cause of a win or loss is useless. The outcome is affected by many, many factors. But to say that things like shooting and free throw shooting aren't important, that's just stupid.

Thank you '95. Free throw shooting is a fundamental aspect of basketball. It helps you to win if you are good at it,or can get to the line significantly more than your opponent.

[danaandvictory]

I will agree with one of ATF's points however, which is that announcers who speculate that Team A will struggle to hold a lead "because they shoot only 62% as a team" are idiots. For example, XU was not a particularly good FT shooting team last year primarily because McLean, Anderson, and Frease were godawful at the line. But in endgame scenarios the Muskies could put Holloway, Raymond, Brown, and Jackson on the floor and have a very solid group of shooters.

[xufan02]

Rivals has some new video of Canty on their board, and he looks like he is progressing very well. He has really worked on his shot, and I would not be suprised when the new rankings comes out that he finds himself in the top 100. I'm excited to get a true with that is athletic and can shoot as well.

[X Factor]

I watched the videos and was impressed. Canty will bring a nice dose of athleticism on the wing that we lack this year. He looks a legit 6'5 with really long arms and can get up very nicely. His jump shot looks much improved and he's got nice ballhandling skills too.

He should see some nice minutes as a freshman next year.

[The_Mack_Pack]

Does anyone know what he's averaging? I know he's on C.J. Leslie's team so he isn't the star of his team but the more I hear about him and see his youtube videos the more I like him. He's kind of like Weatherspoon but I think Canty can shoot a little, unless I'm mistaken.

[gladdenguy]

From what I've seen he's a great slasher, solid passer, rebounds and defends well and the kid can knock down his freebies.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Does anyone know what he's averaging? I know he's on C.J. Leslie's team so he isn't the star of his team but the more I hear about him and see his youtube videos the more I like him. He's kind of like Weatherspoon but I think Canty can shoot a little, unless I'm mistaken.

I think you're mixing up Wells and Canty.

Canty is 2010 and not on Leslie's team. Wells is the one on that Word of God team

[The_Mack_Pack]

O...my bad. Canty and Wells seem like similar players though.

[A10fan]

Congratulations to Jay for earning North Carolina All-State honors!

http://prepinsiders.blogspot.com/2010/03/nc-associated-press-all-state.html

I look forward to watching him in a Xavier uni.

[X Factor]

Recently posted mixtape on youtube of Jay Canty...

Looks like he's got a lot of skill and a TON of potential! Very excited to watch him play next year.

Jay Canty (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0VF3W75W1E)

[MADXSTER]

Nice. And that last dunk was vicious!!

[Benxman]

:logo:This is the first good film I have seen of Canty and I definely like what I see. He has some major hops and showed a good spin move. Except for the first long 3 on the film he showed pretty good shooting mechanics.
He should contend for PT this year. Looks like a good addition to the fold.
Go Muskies!

[JAX 3758]

I really love this class...they all seem to have the ability to really FILL IT UP. We are going to need scoring by a committee to fill Jordans shoes

[bobbiemcgee]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0VF3W75W1E

[A10fan]

What Canty do?

[wkrq59]

What Canty do?

Two pro scouts a friend of mine talked to yesterday said Canty is on par with Crawford. But I say wait a couple of years at least.:logo:

[kyxu]

Two pro scouts a friend of mine talked to yesterday said Canty is on par with Crawford. But I say wait a couple of years at least.:logo:

Easy there

[Xman95]

Looks like he's going to have to tweak the shooting form a little (it's a little slow/long and low), but for a kid who was known as a jumper/slasher I think it looks decent. Seems to have good body control, solid handle and a nice ability to finish. A little work with Mack and Co. and this kid is going to be a STUD...just like Latham, Martin and Griff!

[xufan02]

Jay Canty checks in at the 2:13 mark and is followed up by 2011 pledge Dezmine Wells.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p11FziYoqqU&feature=fvw

[X-man]

Thanks for the link. Both Canty and Wells are absolutely explosive off the floor. And Wells has amazing hangtime. I can't wait to see the team of 2011 on the floor. Of course I am not looking past this year. The Muskies are on a great recruiting trajectory, one that will pay off with a FF visit within the next 5 years IMHO.