NCAA accuses Memphis of violations

[BBC 08]

link (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4210798) No wonder Cal left.

[muskiefan82]

I am absolutely shocked!

[AviatorX]

WOW! And we all thought Memphis was one of the only programs left doing things the right way...

[PMI]

So if they end up yielding their 07-08 postseason achievements does that mean Snipe is going to take orders for our "Elite 7" shirts?

[Espe]

I'm shocked it took this long.

Sounds like it might have been Derrick Rose.

[XURunner85]

How many freshman left Memphis after that season??? I can only think of one and he plays for his and mine home town of Chicago Bulls......This is were I think that not only should the school get penalized for allowing this but the coach should suffer too if he has already left the school in question.....like take 7 of his 17 scholarships away at UK...

[PM Thor]

I agree Runner, it's BS that a coach can just leave a school with no repurcussions on that coach, if things went down while under their watch.

If these allegations are true, will Cal be the first coach in history who will have had two different school vacate Final Four appearances while he was their coach? Wow. That's a horrific thought.

I wonder what is going through UK fans heads right now. Two separate occurances of NCAA allegations for their new coach. They can't be happy with that, even if they rationalize it away.

I HATE dayton.

[An X Fan]

As of 11:17 pm on Wednesday night, here are 3 of the headlines on ESPN's home page:
1. Report: NCAA accuses Memphis of violations
2. Ex-UK coach Gillespie suing school, seeking $6M
3. UK recruit Wall pleads guilty to middemeanor

The Memphis stuff obviously centers around Coach Cal. Looks like Lexington has sunken lower, if that's possible.

[Jumpy]

I figured it would be at least a year before the Calipari house of cards came falling down at UK. What do they do now (assuming that Memphis gets hit hard and there is a direct link to Cal)? Do they keep rolling with him and risk damaging thier own program or dump him and start the circus all over again?

[XU05and07]

I figured it would be at least a year before the Calipari house of cards came falling down at UK. What do they do now (assuming that Memphis gets hit hard and there is a direct link to Cal)? Do they keep rolling with him and risk damaging thier own program or dump him and start the circus all over again?

Matta, Miller, or Mack to UK!!!!

[boozehound]

At what point do you ban someone from coaching if you are the NCAA? The man obviously has absolutely no integrity and less than zero respect for the rules. Everywhere he goes NCAA violations follow. At what point do you say that someone has no business coaching college athletics? We are starting to see now why he has been so successful everywhere he has been.

If UK wants to preserve any shred of dignity for their program they will drop that bum now, before they end up facing sanctions themselves for something Calipari does while at UK. I guess the question that UK's administration has to ask themselves is: just how badly do you want to win?

[Jumpy]

Matta, Miller, or Mack to UK!!!!

That would be something to see Miller go there. I wonder what he would say to recruits? "Why buy a Lexus when you could own a thoroughbred?"

[BBC 08]

Things are starting to get interesting now in regards to Rose/Memphis:

Chicago Sun Times Report (http://yourseason.suntimes.com/boys_basketball/1595888,052709-derrick-rose-ncaa-investigation.article)

Jeff Goodman's Blog (http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/goodmanonfox/2009/05/28/MORE_ON_MEMPHIS_CALIPARI_AND_ROSE)

Gary Parrish's Blog (http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6271764/15270036)

[Jumpy]

‘‘[Smith and I] didn’t know anything about his test,’’ Topps said. ‘‘Reggie moved me and him out of the way long before that, as soon as the money got involved.’’


I hate it when even the best laid plans are ruined by idiots. This yahoo tried to exonerate himself and the coach and, in doing so, dropped the bomb that he was in the know on at least part of the extracurricular activites. And then tries to backtrack with this ridiculous explanation.

What (I meant) by 'money involved,' is that (I was moved out) when they started smelling the money as far as (Derrick) getting rich," Topps said. "That's what (I) mean. ... (I) was talking about (money as in) when the kid turned pro."

[Xman95]

So, being that Memphis had become a threat to win the Nat'l Championship just about any year, why did Calipari take less money to go to UK? It was often brought up that he turned down a larger offer from Memphis. Maybe he wanted to get out before the doo-doo hit the fan?!?

But, unfortunately, he'll go untouched if it is proven that there were, in fact, major violations. Give him about five years before he bolts from UK...just before they get caught for doing something wrong. But, as usual, when the storm clouds roll over Lexington, Calipari will be sitting in the sun somewhere else.

Why did they have to stop John Chaney?

[X-band '01]

Notice how these allegations only take place in seasons where both UMass and Memphis at least made the Final 4. The only thing Memphis appears to be in danger of right now is vacating their championship appearance from 2008.

If that holds up, C-USA will have a whopping 0 NCAA Tournament units for the 2007-08 season. That would be an impressive feat.

[Xman95]

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then shoot it and have dinner. And perhaps add "Duck Soup" as an after-dinner movie.

Oh, John Calipari's dirty.

[wkrq59]

I am no fan of John Calipari. Make that known up front.
BUT
Thus far the only thing I have read is ALLEGED and ALLEGATIONS of wrongdoing.
Consider this. The NCAA could have called Mitch Barnhart and said, "We have the Memphis basketball program under investigation for academic fraud. You might want to hold off hiring John as coach until we get this thing cleared up.
Didn't I read that Barnhart and the UK president as well, had called the NCAA to find out if rumors they had heard had any substance and were told "No," go ahead and hire him?
I believe the accusation is that the student athlete falsified an entrance test or ACT or SAT.
Here's an old warhorse's prediction of what will happen. A lower echelon scapegoat in R.C. Johnson's tribe will get the heave-ho. The recruit whoever he was will say he knew nothing of the misdeeds. Calipari will offer to take a lie detector test and be cleared of any knowledge of academic impropriety. Memphis will lose one scholarship, maybe two and put on a year or two probation with no other sanctions for lack of institutional control.
However, if it can be proved Calipari and Johnson both knew about the fraud and either condoned it or did nothing about it, Memphis could get the death penalty which is of course the cessation of competition in basketball for an entire season. The school's athletic programs would be ruined for decades (See SMU)
Every player on the team will become a free agent eligible to transfer and compete in the 2009-10 season. Memphis will forfeit every game in which the player competed and all NCAA tournament revenues from that competition will have to be repaid.
Oh, and Calipari and Kentucky will be put on a kid of an "NCAA Watch" list for at least four years. Calipari can't be put on a show cause list whereby he would have to prove he's been clean for two years before he can be hired by another NCAA D1 institution.
No matter what happens, the Memphis basketball program will take an unbelievable hit. Johnson may even get the heave ho.
Personally, I think Memphis might get off with the wrist slap I described and that will be all.
Regardless, this is just another example of the haves vs. the have-nots in the NCAA's eyes. The little guys can't even wear dirty socks while the Big 6 boys can cheat in any of a thousand ways and get off Scott free.
Either way, it will be good for Kentucky to get back in its winning ways and make another run at a national championship. After all, money still talks and we wouldn't want the NCAA to suffer financially. Think of all the snoops that would be put out of work.
While in the realm of the ridiculous, how about a meeting between Arizona and Kentucky next spring for the national championship? Naw, that would be too much for some. But isn't U of A being looked at for some improprieties ?:D:D:D

[BBC 08]

More dirt on Rose:

Deadspin (http://deadspin.com/5272242/derrick-rose-needed-a-lot-of-help-getting-into-college)

Chicago Sun Times (http://www.suntimes.com/news/education/1596666,derrick-rose-simeon-grades-cheat-memphis.article)

Parrish's blog (http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6271764/15279068)

[SixFig]

I'm guessing UK's new five star class has had their share of Cal's "perks"

[Masterofreality]

At what point do you ban someone from coaching if you are the NCAA?


Answer: Read the biography of Jim Harrick.

Calapari is slime, albeit slick and media friendly slime.

[XU 87]

As far as Kentucky getting into any trouble for hiring Calipari, as one former coach once said, "The NCAA is so mad at Kentucky that they're going to put Southeast Louisiana on probation."

[xu_fan]

None of us really know anything yet and Cal may have no part in this... I understand as the head coach he will/should get some heat if there was wrong doing, but this really isnt the end of the world allegations... Just my opinion... I just think people HATE UK and any chance they get will bash them.. sorry

[wkrq59]

Answer: Read the biography of Jim Harrick.

Calapari is slime, albeit slick and media friendly slime.

And who is one of Calipari's BEST FRIENDS in coaching??????? Isn't he coaching in Tucson at Arizona State, errr make it U of A? :D:D:D

[XURunner85]

I believe that Sampson was banned for atleast 2 years or so by the NCAA after the IU incident was his second offense....

[xu_fan]

From the ESPN article that I read Cal is not in danger of any penalty...

[PM Thor]

From the ESPN article that I read Cal is not in danger of any penalty...

Of course he isn't. That doesn't equate to him being exonerated in public opinion though, right or wrong. If Memphis is found guilty of these allegations, this would be two schools led by Cal that have had sanctions.

That, to me, is a big flag, whether or not he personally is innocent. It shows a lack of control of a program, and I won't accept that.

This makes me wonder seriously about Miller, seeing as he is in the Cal camp. Will Miller get in trouble sooner or later? Did he leave X partially because we have strict oversight over the program? Just free thinking here, based on nothing.

I HATE dayton.

[X-band '01]

However, if it can be proved Calipari and Johnson both knew about the fraud and either condoned it or did nothing about it, Memphis could get the death penalty which is of course the cessation of competition in basketball for an entire season. The school's athletic programs would be ruined for decades (See SMU)


I honestly think the oversight of Memphis giving a "friend" of the program over $2K in travel perks could be a greater offense than a player who allegedly cheated on the SAT. If the only charge against Memphis were the SAT charge, there's no way that anyone other than the 2007-08 team could be punished. If the NCAA discovers a lack of institutional control whether or not Calipari was involved, then it is conceivable that the program could be looking at either scholarship reductions or a ban from postseason play.

I know that Memphis is a big enough name that the NCAA could lay the hammer on them (because they will not do it to USC if indeed we find out that the OJ Mayo allegations were true), but this just isn't at the level of SMU or even Baylor where they ultimately had the shortened season a few years back.

[X-band '01]

This makes me wonder seriously about Miller, seeing as he is in the Cal camp. Will Miller get in trouble sooner or later? Did he leave X partially because we have strict oversight over the program? Just free thinking here, based on nothing.

If that's why he left, our fans and Mike Bobinski would not be pissed off at him for doing a 180 and bolting for Arizona; we'd be thanking him.

[boozehound]

I was watching ESPN News last night and they had 4 of the dumbest people in the world on, all defending Coach Cal and Memphis. One guy's point of contention is that "if you aren't cheating, you aren't trying". Pretty deep stuff.

[Juice]

On a related topic, I was told a story this week about Mick Cronin. When asked why he didn't pursue OJ Mayo that strongly, Mick responded, "Well there are about 200,000 reasons why."

[Jumpy]

On a related topic, I was told a story this week about Mick Cronin. When asked why he didn't pursue OJ Mayo that strongly, Mick responded, "Well there are about 200,000 reasons why."

'Ol sippin Mick gets on my nerves, but that was pretty funny.

[Masterofreality]

And who is one of Calipari's BEST FRIENDS in coaching??????? Isn't he coaching in Tucson at Arizona State, errr make it U of A? :D:D:D


....And who did the raccoon in the desert go to for advice?

Wow, such a rock-solid source. ;)

While the disease may not have spread, allowing yourself to be close to it cannot be very good.

[blobfan]

If that's why he left, our fans and Mike Bobinski would not be pissed off at him for doing a 180 and bolting for Arizona; we'd be thanking him.

I wouldn't go so far as to accuse Sean of doing something in direct violation of NCAA rules, but I had been questioning how committed he was to the education first philosophy. Remember his comment, I think is was last season, about how at some point if we want to compete we'll have to consider targeting players we know plan to leave after a year or two? He said we'll have to accept that at some point our graduation streak will be broken. Between that and the perceived limitations of being in the A10, I think he was starting to look elsewhere. Didn't see it coming this year though.

[Juice]

'Ol sippin Mick gets on my nerves, but that was pretty funny.

I hate the little fruitcake too, but I think stories like those are funny to see how out of hand this whole business, and I do mean business, has gotten out of hand.

[PMI]

I wouldn't go so far as to accuse Sean of doing something in direct violation of NCAA rules, but I had been questioning how committed he was to the education first philosophy. Remember his comment, I think is was last season, about how at some point if we want to compete we'll have to consider targeting players we know plan to leave after a year or two? He said we'll have to accept that at some point our graduation streak will be broken. Between that and the perceived limitations of being in the A10, I think he was starting to look elsewhere. Didn't see it coming this year though.

I agree with your first sentence as I think it's downright ridiculous to try and spin this to the point where we question Miller, who hasn't ever had any problems, but I guess some of us are still way, way down at that level. I guess it's still soon.

Honestly though, as far as Miller's comments about targeting specific kinds of players, I don't disagree with him necessarily and I've said before that our graduation streak won't last forever (which seems pretty obvious but you wouldn't always know it around here.) The fact is, we are going after better and better recruits and we all want that to continue. Mack's not going to just target less athletic players than Miller to try to keep our graduation streak alive. At some point, we ARE going to lose someone early. BJ Raymond seems to think it could come as early as next season.

I don't think we'll see our streak snapped because of a four year player just failing to graduate, especially not in Sr. Fleming's lifetime, but I do think we will lose someone to the league before he's finished and I already feel for that kid, whoever he will be. Some of you will completely throw him under the bus and I think it's going to be unfair. It won't make us any less of a school or program but some people will act that way. Man, I'm not looking forward to that day, simply based on some of the things I've read here the last couple months. AmX, feel free to ban me on that day.

[xu_fan]

I agree with your first sentence as I think it's downright ridiculous to try and spin this to the point where we question Miller, who hasn't ever had any problems, but I guess some of us are still way, way down at that level. I guess it's still soon.

Honestly though, as far as Miller's comments about targeting specific kinds of players, I don't disagree with him necessarily and I've said before that our graduation streak won't last forever (which seems pretty obvious but you wouldn't always know it around here.) The fact is, we are going after better and better recruits and we all want that to continue. Mack's not going to just target less athletic players than Miller to try to keep our graduation streak alive. At some point, we ARE going to lose someone early. BJ Raymond seems to think it could come as early as next season.

I don't think we'll see our streak snapped because of a four year player just failing to graduate, especially not in Sr. Fleming's lifetime, but I do think we will lose someone to the league before he's finished and I already feel for that kid, whoever he will be. Some of you will completely throw him under the bus and I think it's going to be unfair. It won't make us any less of a school or program but some people will act that way. Man, I'm not looking forward to that day, simply based on some of the things I've read here the last couple months. AmX, feel free to ban me on that day.


I agree 100%..... I can go back a couple months ago and find "I love Sean Miller Threads" with hundreds of responses. Let's just be happy with Chris Mack and let Sean do what he does... He's a good coach who does things the right way and we all know that... I hope whoever breaks that streak has tough skin..

[xubrew]

I don't think we'll see our streak snapped because of a four year player just failing to graduate, especially not in Sr. Fleming's lifetime, but I do think we will lose someone to the league before he's finished and I already feel for that kid, whoever he will be

there are three different graduation rates. the freshman cohort rate, the graduation success rate, and the exhausted eligibility rate. it's the exhausted eligibility rate that's at 100%. that rate measures the number of players who exhaust their eligibility and then go on to graduate. a player leaving early doesn't effect theiir grad rate. the only way it would is if they play all four years and then leave without graduating.

the other two grad rates are NOT 100% for xavier. i think the freshman cohort rate is actually in the 60s. every time a player enrolls at xavier and doesn't graduate from xavier (transfer, quit team, etc) the freshman cohort rate takes a hit.


However, if it can be proved Calipari and Johnson both knew about the fraud and either condoned it or did nothing about it, Memphis could get the death penalty which is of course the cessation of competition in basketball for an entire season. The school's athletic programs would be ruined for decades (See SMU)

if texas a&m corpus christi didn't get the death penalty in any sport for all the stuff they pulled, then memphis won't either, not even if it's as severe as what you say. baylor was much worse, and they only sort of got it. it's only been done once, and i don't think we'll see it again any time soon.


As far as Kentucky getting into any trouble for hiring Calipari, as one former coach once said, "The NCAA is so mad at Kentucky that they're going to put Southeast Louisiana on probation

it was jerry tarkanian that said that. it's a great quote, but he was pretty dirty himself.

besides, very recent history shows that major programs are not immune to smackdowns.

indiana basketball
baylor basketball
oklahoma football
florida state football
ohio state football and basketball
usc football and basketball (well, pending)
alabama football
texas a&m football
michigan basketball (kind of dated, but still recent enough)

the only major smack downs given to non-major programs that come to mind are saint bonaventure basketball, fresno state basketball, and most recently texas a&m corpus christi (virtually everything). all of those violations were pretty aggregious, so you can hardly say the harsh penalties were undeserved.


From the ESPN article that I read Cal is not in danger of any penalty...

this is what's interesting, at least to me. the violation isn't actual misconduct. it's "knowing fraudulence or misconduct." ultimately, it's not the coach's responsibility to monitor that, nor should it be. if someone reports that a xavier player is cheating on exams or has someone else doing his work for him, it's silly to go yell at chris mack about. the only way mack would be in any trouble is if he knew someone else was doing the work, and did nothing about it....and even then he probably wouldn't be in THAT much trouble. it's not his job to monitor that.

as an administrator there are certain things you have to take for granted, and one of those things is that the scores the testing services are submitting to you are correct. if the test results were not red flagged by the SAT board and the person monitoring the test didn't notice the cheating, then no one working in any university admissions office can reasonably be blamed for not knowing that the student cheated. if you can't blame the admissions office, then you really can't blame anyone in the athletic department either. if a student-athlete cheats in a class but isn't turned in for it until after the grades are submitted, then you can't blame a coach for that either because if the professor didn't know the student-athlete cheated, then how the hell would the coach know??

the only way Cal is in any trouble is if he knew it was going on and did nothing about it. truthfully, it's very easy (and believable) to argue that he didn't. one article mentioned how rose's high school changed the grades on his high school transcript when they were submitted to memphis. that's not memphis's fault. you can't blame the admissions office for not catching that, and if you can't blame them, then you certainly can't blame cal.

[wkrq59]

I honestly think the oversight of Memphis giving a "friend" of the program over $2K in travel perks could be a greater offense than a player who allegedly cheated on the SAT. If the only charge against Memphis were the SAT charge, there's no way that anyone other than the 2007-08 team could be punished. If the NCAA discovers a lack of institutional control whether or not Calipari was involved, then it is conceivable that the program could be looking at either scholarship reductions or a ban from postseason play.
I know that Memphis is a big enough name that the NCAA could lay the hammer on them (because they will not do it to USC if indeed we find out that the OJ Mayo allegations were true), but this just isn't at the level of SMU or even Baylor where they ultimately had the shortened season a few years back.

01, the most serious offenses any NCAA administered member school can commit are 1)Academic fraud, which is what Memphis is facing first, and 2)Lack of Institutional control, which is an umbrella sin that can include damn near anything. Sadly, the NCAA has a history of slapping the little guys more severely than the big guys. And the lesser lights of the Big 6 conferences will take it up the wazoo long before the big boys.
But the worst thing the NCAA does is notify a school that it is being investigated, leak it to the press and then wait a year or two before issuing sanctions effectively killing a team's recruiting without ever issuing a ruling or proving a charge. In other words, they hang 'em before they get a fair trial. :o:o:o

[Muskie]

You'l all be stunned... but Memphis' internal investigation found no impropriety.

[AdamtheFlyer]

You'l all be stunned... but Memphis' internal investigation found no impropriety.


Of course not. It would have been hard to, considering everyone associated with the Rose recruitment is now gone from the school. Best part about all of this: Calipari was the only Memphis representative that ever contacted Derrick Rose or his handlers. Not the assistants, not Pastner, not the admissions office...it was all Calipari. And World Wide Wes. Calipari made sure of that.

From firsthand experience,that walks like a duck. And if it walks like a duck...

[taxpayer]

I can believe Cal/Memphis knew nothing of the SAT issue nor the alleged changing of Mr. Rose's high school transcripts. As far as the high school itself, Who requested the change? Who approved the change?

The charge that Memphis PAID for travel expenses for a member of Mr. Rose's posse should be very easily verified. If proven, who was the overseer? Cal could get dragged in as it had to be done at his bidding as I can't believe the bball business manager would do this on his own. Of course, it could have been a request received from the University President or AD; seriously, who would have the authority to make this expenditure?

[Muskie]

I can believe Cal/Memphis knew nothing of the SAT issue nor the alleged changing of Mr. Rose's high school transcripts. As far as the high school itself, Who requested the change? Who approved the change?

The charge that Memphis PAID for travel expenses for a member of Mr. Rose's posse should be very easily verified. If proven, who was the overseer? Cal could get dragged in as it had to be done at his bidding as I can't believe the bball business manager would do this on his own. Of course, it could have been a request received from the University President or AD; seriously, who would have the authority to make this expenditure?
Believe the person was World Wide Wes (who got paid). He has since reimbursed the school from one I read.

[DAllen15]

This is a murky situation.

From today's Chicago Sun-Times-


According to the report, the Chicago Public Schools Inspector General’s office was first tipped off to the grade-change and the rumors that someone else took the SAT for Rose by a CPS teacher. When the teacher was later interviewed by the university, she denied making the allegation.


Memphis interviewed Rose about the grade change and he denied knowing anything about it. According to Memphis, the grade change would not have had any effect on his admission to the university or his eligibility with the NCAA Clearinghouse.

The fact that Rose got the OK to play from the clearinghouse is the backbone of Memphis’ argument in the report. Educational Testing Service did not cancel Rose’s test score until May 5, 2008, which is after the basketball season and his entire academic year at Memphis.



University officials interviewed Rose in the fall of 2007 and he said he took all of his standardized tests himself. He declined to be interviewed about the investigation after he left the school and has made no comment since.

[Masterofreality]

Sounds a lot like

"Plausible Deniability."

What is the definition of "is"?