Miller told Mack he was leaving at 4am

[LA Muskie]

So...the story and the lies are getting clearer. According to Shannon Russell's blog, Mack went to bed at 11:30pm Sunday night assured that Miller had decided to stay, and was woken up at 4:00am with a call from Miller saying he had changed his mind. But Miller said he hadn't made his mind up when he spoke to Bobo later that morning. So which is it??? Sounds to me like he had already made up his mind, but didn't want Bobo to know that he had done so without even talking to him about it...

I still don't really care that he left. But the more the story gets fleshed out, the more pissed I get about how it went down. I should probably just get over it though. Onward and upward. THE TRADITION CONTINUES!

[xubball93]

Yeah, Mack said his wife answered the 4 am phone call and told Chris it was Sean and it sounded like he had changed his mind.

Screw the fans, students and alum, fine. But like Matta, $ean did the team wrong by not telling his players himself.

[Kahns Krazy]

Well this changes everything. 4 AM?? What the hell. What a dick. When I thought it was noon, I was okay with it, but 4 AM is totally unacceptable.

[The Artist]

So...the story and the lies are getting clearer. According to Shannon Russell's blog, Mack went to bed at 11:30pm Sunday night assured that Miller had decided to stay, and was woken up at 4:00am with a call from Miller saying he had changed his mind. But Miller said he hadn't made his mind up when he spoke to Bobo later that morning. So which is it??? Sounds to me like he had already made up his mind, but didn't want Bobo to know that he had done so without even talking to him about it...

I still don't really care that he left. But the more the story gets fleshed out, the more pissed I get about how it went down. I should probably just get over it though. Onward and upward. THE TRADITION CONTINUES!

Source on the bolded part?

[luckymiller]

Yeah, Mack said his wife answered the 4 am phone call and told Chris it was Sean and it sounded like he had changed his mind.

Screw the fans, students and alum, fine. But like Matta, $ean did the team wrong by not telling his players himself.

How much time do you really think he had to gather the team? With the press and their wicked ways they wanted to be the first to get the reaction from the players. Apparently media trucks were parked outside the miller house early that morning. Did you want him to dig a tunnel out all the way down to the cintas to meet with the team? Don't get me wrong Team should be first priority but if not really given an opportunity to take care of it,the media was all over it. Great for them to get the scoop and dismantle the team before coach had a chance to even talk to them.

[MHettel]

Really. Why do we care.

Is it about the timing? I care more about Miller based upon the timeline?

He's a former coach. I dont care about the circumstances related to his choice.

I'm 100% Xu, he is not.

[GoMuskies]

Who is this person that is the subject of this thread? Sounds vaguely familiar to someone who is dead to me.

[wkrq59]

MHettel, I agree.
He's gone. Can't we move on?:D

[XUfaninJAX]

I had 12 beers and told the old lady I only had 8, and my receipt said 10. I don't know who to believe anymore...

[xman]

MHettel, I agree.
He's gone. Can't we move on?:D

Yes, move on!!!!

[nuts4xu]

If you are hell bent on being pissed and unhappy about this situation, there is nothing anyone can do do to change your mind.

Just seems like an utter waste of time and energy to me. What good does it do to try and find even more reason to remain bitter? Nevermind, I really don't give a shit.

[PM Thor]

I really don't understand the animosity for Miller. It's obvious he was torn by this decision. He turned down numerous other positions, many that would have paid him better than X (probably). So he waffles, goes back and forth, and finally goes to Arizona. It was pretty apparent he had a very difficult time making this choice.

What would people prefer, that Miller have had bolted for any of the numerous, numerous programs that were after him the last couple of years? He did the exact opposite. Some people really need to let this go already.

I HATE dayton.

[LA Muskie]

Source on the bolded part?

Bobo himself. At the Press Conference. Also, both Dow and Russell, among others.

[xubball93]

I know, move on, you guys are right. I think the summer league will help me. I'll consider it therapy. Musketeer Madness/Blue and White Game will cure me as the new season will officially be here!:)

[The Artist]

Bobo himself. At the Press Conference. Also, both Dow and Russell, among others.

A simple link would work for the Dow and Russell part.

[Masterofreality]

I really don't understand the animosity for Miller......

What would people prefer, that Miller have had bolted for any of the numerous, numerous programs that were after him the last couple of years? He did the exact opposite. Some people really need to let this go already.

I HATE dayton.

Yeah, like you need to let go of your dayton hatred?

With all due respect. Thor, we can feel what we want to. Racoon Face professed undying love and allegiance to Xavier and to players that he recruited telling Kenny Frease flat out that he would be his coach for 4 years. I guess that only worked until he could get his thirty pieces of silver. Judas betrayed Jesus after pledging allegiance, too.

Raccoon Face turned his back on those who gave him support firstly through his initial rough patch and secondly, by giving him superb resources that he is now using to take recruits that he met on Xavier's dime- by extension, all of our dimes if we gave money. That is some way to repay the loyalty.

And don't give me any crap about - "Well, all of us would leave for the money." That's BS. Many of us, including me, have had chances to leave our jobs for one paying more, but some of us believe that loyalty and committment count for something more than just another dollar. Let's see if Raccoon gives anything to the Xavier Annual Fund.

Raccon was making a very, very nice living at Xavier. He had no money worries and he had security with more money on the way. He had the resources to win a National Championship here. He had a roster that could win one. His words about going to Arizona for competitive reasons ring hollow. He left for money, pure and simple and broke promises going out the door. Add to that, he's ripping recruits to Arizona that those desert rats didn't pay a cent for. He goes to Arizona- an IMG Collegiate Marketed school, now he's being paid partly by IMG, then he amazingly is able to move Kyryl- from the IMG Academy- to Arizona too? Questionable? Yeah. If he had any scruples, he'd tell those kids like Parrom to stick with Xavier, that he wasn't interested in him at Arizona, but that is obviously not happening.

Sorry, no lingering love for the thieving Raccon Face. Xavier will be just fine with Chris Mack, but don't expect me to forgive, or cheer for the departed coach. Just check my signature below-

[Xaveriana]

This post reminds me of some emails sent at work.
Someone sends an email out to a large group of associates.
Then someone replies to all stating "Please remove me from this list".
Then others reply to all stating "Please don't Reply to All".
It becomes a humorous snowball rolling down hill.
It's kind of like some XU fans piling on stating "Let the Miller thing go" and others stating don't tell me what to think/feel.
If you really want fans to "Let the Miller thing go", you may want to not respond to threads about it.

[Olsingledigit]

Hear hear, MOR. You are spot on. Some people leave not for the money but because they are being mistreated by their employers. That has never happened at X.

[PM Thor]

MOR, it's not that I have any love for Miller, I don't. I just don't get rehashing this over and over. Who cares why he left? He's gone. Plus, comparing him to Judas? That's a little over the top.

Whatever anyone believes, college basketball is a business. He made a business decision, no matter the emotionality some of us have about it, it was a business decision. If some cannot get beyond the coach-speak, then that is your cross to bear. Very nearly every coach out there leaves their current position for another spot, it happens. When it comes to this stuff I think people are getting hyper sensitive, taking their love for Xavier University and the program and morphing that into hatred for what one man, a man who helped X go further than ever before, who left in less than an easy fashion.

I prefer to think of the years that Miller stayed, over thinking about when he left, because quite honestly I knew he would leave, I just didn't know when. Of course he would leave for more money and a BCS program. To equate that to him being shady for it is ridiculous, he wanted something else with his career and for his family, I don't have any animosity for him. I just think he made a poor decision, like we all do from time to time. I have a feeling he will look back at his years at X and wonder "what if".

Meanwhile I will be celebrating as X wins a national championship under Coach Mack.

I HATE dayton.

[Masterofreality]

Whatever anyone believes, college basketball is a business. He made a business decision, no matter the emotionality some of us have about it, it was a business decision. If some cannot get beyond the coach-speak, then that is your cross to bear.
I HATE dayton.

Respectful and responsible business people live up to their committments. If they don't they won't be in business very long.

As to "coach-speak" I call BS. "Coach-speak", is nothing more than a rationalization phrase that excuses the speaker to prevaricate. I don't "business-speak" stuff that would give me an excuse to welch out of what I promise. Many have become way too cavalier about what is acceptable in sports and society. Thank God, and I mean that, Xavier is operated under a moral and ethical standard. Maybe it is better that the last two coaches departed. Possibly they were becoming a little to slippery for what XU stands for.

Skip Prosser and Peter Gillen left the right way. Pete made it clear that although he loved Xavier, he never said never. He was still able to recruit. Skip left with class too and was maybe the most truthful guy ever in coaching. I have no problem with those guys. Maybe Skip got Danelius to go to Wake where Vytas may have gone to Xavier if he had stayed, but it wasn't a blatant rip of recruits like Raccoon Face is pulling with the attendant sleaze factor of the IMG involvement.

Sorry, there are ways to live and to do things correctly while respecting people you deal with. The last two coaches moves out of town have been Thuggins-esque. Period.

[Xman95]

Racoon Face professed undying love and allegiance to Xavier and to players that he recruited telling Kenny Frease flat out that he would be his coach for 4 years. I guess that only worked until he could get his thirty pieces of silver.

Looking back on the stories after Skip left, it seems he told Caudle that he would be there for his four years too.

Ultimately, I think timing has a lot to do with our feelings. Thad left when it seemed there was more for him to do at X. Sean bolted for the desert and it seems left a lot of unfinished business at Xavier. On the flip side, Pete and Skip had probably come the end of where they were going to take the program. In order for them - and XU - to continue rising, a parting of the ways seemed necessary. That didn't seem to hold true for Matta and definitely doesn't appear to be the case with Miller.

[XU 87]

Racoon Face professed undying love and allegiance to Xavier and to players that he recruited telling Kenny Frease flat out that he would be his coach for 4 years.



MOR, I usually like your posts. But you're way of base on this one.

What exactly did you want to Miller to say while he was at X? "This is a nice gig but I'm leaving for the first really good Big 6 job that comes along?" "This is a nice place but I can think of a lot of other places I'd like to be?" Do you feel the same way about Staak, Gillen and Prosser?

I think it sucks that Miller is recruiting Parrom and Latham. But I'm not going to call him names and basically accuse of him of being the second coming of Bob Huggins just because he decided to leave X.

He left to go to a higher paying job that he thinks gives him a better opportunity to win. You disagree. That's fine. But Miller's leaving doesn't make him some kind of unethical scumbag.

[vee4xu]

A guy on our investment committee once said after a presentation in which he felt he was getting the old double talk:

First you lie to yourself, then you lie to everybody else.

This happened 10 years ago, but that saying has stuck with me. It applies to all facets of life, including Division I College Basketball Coaches, or for that matter DI coaches in any sport. How can they credibly lie to anyone else when they don't believe the lie themselves? So, first they lie to themselves and they lie to everyone else. Just a cold, hard fact of life. Do I like it? No, but it happens.

Also, we are into a new generation of coaches. Staak, Pete and Skip were "old-school" coaches. They learned under a different set of rules. Matta and Miller, they are a new breed, one that is in a live-for-the-moment mentality. All of us who are older have to face and live with that reality too. The poster child for this kind of thing is Nick Saban. Ask MSU and LSU fans how they felt when Nick left their schools. What do you think Alabama players think when Nick says he'll be there forever? How about Huggins with KSU and WVA? This crap happens all the time and it will get worse as time goes on and the financial stakes get higher.

Point of all this: Xavier is not the only place where players are being lied to by coaches. These days, neither players, nor coaches have an allegiance to schools. They are all about themselves and go to whatever lengths necessary to protect what is important to them. It is the way life is today. We just have to realize it and live with it.

So, love your school come hell-or-high-water. Also, we should respect each others opinions because everyone deals with change differently, but we are all on the same side.

[Masterofreality]

They are all about themselves and go to whatever lengths necessary to protect what is important to them. It is the way life is today. We just have to realize it and live with it.


So that's why we get behavior like Enron, Tyco and AIG.

Let's all just throw committment, truth and our word to others in the trash can, be "all about ourselves" and "live with it". I, for one, will absolutely not live with it.

I'm not jumping on you, Vee, but maybe I'm an antique from a different age- when a handshake meant a deal was cemented, people lived up to their contracts, and when something was said, it wasn't just a throwawy line, it was meant, followed and fulfilled.

Sorry, folks. You guys believe what you want. GladdenGuy and I will believe what we want. And what I want above all is for the University that love to stop being used and disrespected.

[vee4xu]

MOR, I am with you bro. I don't condone immoral behavior either. I don't like it in any respect. But, like it or not, it the society in which we live has in its fiber an "I" mentality.

I have a saying of my own:

You make the rules and I'll play by them.

The rules are such now that you have to be prepared to get screwed. That doesn't mean that whoever wants to play by those rules has to be immoral or dishonest too. What it means it that you have to be proactive and be prepared when that time comes.

[D-West & PO-Z]

So that's why we get behavior like Enron, Tyco and AIG.

Let's all just throw committment, truth and our word to others in the trash can, be "all about ourselves" and "live with it". I, for one, will absolutely not live with it.

I'm not jumping on you, Vee, but maybe I'm an antique from a different age- when a handshake meant a deal was cemented, people lived up to their contracts, and when something was said, it wasn't just a throwawy line, it was meant, followed and fulfilled.

Sorry, folks. You guys believe what you want. GladdenGuy and I will believe what we want. And what I want above all is for the University that love to stop being used and disrespected.

MOR,

I was pissed about it too, still dont like it, especially with the way Miller left but the victim card doesnt look so good. I have seen you say it yourself Xavier gets better each time this happens and Xavier made Sean Miller. Well Xavier can make Chris Mack. Xavier will, no has, moved on and playing the victim and saying poor old Xavier doesnt do us any good.

I am not saying you cant be pissed because I am but I am just asking you if you think dwelling on it is helping you? If it is, ok. However I think you would benefit from just letting it go. I am sure getting closer to the season will help that.

[vee4xu]

And lest we forget, there are agents involved here too. These guys are all scuzballs who would sell their mothers for a price. They can give a shit less which coach is left with buyers remorse about moving, or which players, their families and their dreams are truncated. Or worse yet die-hard fans who feel betrayed. They simply care about the fees they'll earn. They are broker-whores trying to generate fees on both sides of the transaction and churning is the best way to do that. So, they help create an environment that engenders constant movement from one place to another. That is how they make the most money and so long as they have a hand in negotiating contracts, they continue to make sure that it is easy to do.

[D-West & PO-Z]

And lest we forget, there are agents involved here too. These guys are all scuzballs who would sell their mothers for a price. They can give a shit less which coach is left with buyers remorse about moving, or which players, their families and their dreams are truncated. They simply care about the fees they'll earn. They are broker-whores trying to generate fees on both sides of the transaction and churning is the best way to do that. So, they help create an environment that engenders constant movement from one place to another. That is how they make the most money and so long as they have a hand in negotiating contracts, they continue to make sure that it is easy to do.

Dont take the ultimate decision or responsibilities for what happens away from the coaches though. They dont have to do anything they dont want to. I feel like agents have way more influence on young college athletes or guys just coming out of college than college coaches.

[vee4xu]

I don't know Poz, if I had an agent telling me I could make many more millions than I'm already making, I am all ears. Why, because he's blowing shit like this in my ear:

Hey baby, I only want what's best for you and your family. In the end, it's your decision Coach __________, but if it was me, I would hop all over it. Because if you don't someone else will and you may not get another opportunity like this one.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I don't know Poz, if I had an agent telling me I could make many more millions than I'm already making, I am all ears. Why, because he's blowing shit like this in my ear:

Hey baby, I only want what's best for you and your family. In the end, it's your decision Coach __________, but if it was me, I would hop all over it. Because if you don't someone else will and you may not get another opportunity like this one.

Arizona personally told Miller he could make many more millions. He didnt need an agent to tell him anything.

[vee4xu]

Arizona personally told Miller he could make many more millions. He didnt need an agent to tell him anything.

If believing this allows you to sleep better at night more power to you. But in real life there is always more than meets the eye.

[D-West & PO-Z]

If believing this allows you to sleep better at night more power to you. But in real life there is always more than meets the eye.

If believing Arizona told Sean Miller than he would make millions more? No one had to tell him, he looked at the deal. Are you saying Sean Miller cant read or doesnt know what number is higher than the other? Are you trying to let Miller off the hook? No one made the decision for Miller. He made it. Thats it.

I understand there are agents out there but in my opinion they have more influence over the kids in college who are thinking about coming out or other young players, not the 40 something Sean Miller who was trying to decide if he should leave or go. Do you even know if Sean Miller has an agent? Or does he have a lawyer buddy who looks at his contracts and such? I just dont think Miller is dumb enough to let someone like an agent or whatever sway him one way or the other.

[vee4xu]

I base my opinion on 25 years of high level deal making. I am not disparaging your opinion, but wanted to give you some context for mine. So, at this point, whatever.

[sweet16]

MOR, it's not that I have any love for Miller, I don't. I just don't get rehashing this over and over. Who cares why he left? He's gone. Plus, comparing him to Judas? That's a little over the top.

Whatever anyone believes, college basketball is a business. He made a business decision, no matter the emotionality some of us have about it, it was a business decision. If some cannot get beyond the coach-speak, then that is your cross to bear. Very nearly every coach out there leaves their current position for another spot, it happens. When it comes to this stuff I think people are getting hyper sensitive, taking their love for Xavier University and the program and morphing that into hatred for what one man, a man who helped X go further than ever before, who left in less than an easy fashion.

I prefer to think of the years that Miller stayed, over thinking about when he left, because quite honestly I knew he would leave, I just didn't know when. Of course he would leave for more money and a BCS program. To equate that to him being shady for it is ridiculous, he wanted something else with his career and for his family, I don't have any animosity for him. I just think he made a poor decision, like we all do from time to time. I have a feeling he will look back at his years at X and wonder "what if".

Meanwhile I will be celebrating as X wins a national championship under Coach Mack.

I HATE dayton.

"a man who helped X go further than ever before"........and exactly where would that be? Look at Miller's accomplishments over the past 5 years and compare with the 5 years prior. Certainly not a magnitude of scale improvement. If anything, all he did was to maintain the same level of success established by his predecessors.

I agree with MOR on this one. Miller made a name for himself off X's back and he cashed out early. That's not to say that he had to stay forever, but IMO five years was an insufficient amount of time to repay his debt. Look at it another way, where would Miller be today if X hadn't taken a chance on an unproven commodity 5 years ago?

[Masterofreality]

I am not saying you cant be pissed because I am but I am just asking you if you think dwelling on it is helping you? If it is, ok. However I think you would benefit from just letting it go. I am sure getting closer to the season will help that.

Thanks, Doc for my session on the couch.:)

Yeah it's helping me because I can vent in the internet tavern. Better I do it on here than throw a golf club at an Arizona fan when I go out there and play on their cheap golf courses when its 110 degrees. I was only responding to those who keep saying that we should just "let it go." Well, I don't, and never have just let anything go if I don't like it and can comment. PMThor is a friend, fellow Musketeer and a legendary poster. He and I will agree to disagree on this point. Maybe you and I do too, DW.

Anybody on here can feel what they like. Even cheer for the bum if you want. I won't. Raccoon Face sat right next to me at the AFO Outing in 2007 and told me that he wanted to stay at Xavier for a long, long time. I guess a long, long time is now two years in this day and age.

Once a guy leaves Xavier, he's dead to me. He becomes the enemy because what he becomes is just another A-hole that stands in the way of Xavier getting what it so richly deserves. He no longer is a "Xavier guy."

Good bye, Raccoon. I hope the door hits you in your wallet fattened a$$.

[vee4xu]

BTW, you can take it to the bank that Calapari and Matta had their input into Miller's decision. In the end, what appears to be one person's decision is really the culmination of input from many others. The influences that people have in their lives has an impact on whatever decision is made. Only Miller knows how he feels about it when he is alone with his thoughts. That my friends is called a conscience. If he has one, then the decision to leave X may bother Miller. If not, then it is business as usual and he'll screw UofA just as quickly the next time he has a chance.

What I wonder is what Sean's dad said. You know, the guy who coached at the same high school for 45 years.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Thanks, Doc for my session on the couch.:)

Yeah it's helping me because I can vent in the internet tavern. Better I do it on here than throw a golf club at an Arizona fan when I go out there and play on their cheap golf courses when its 110 degrees. I was only responding to those who keep saying that we should just "let it go." Well, I don't, and never have just let anything go if I don't like it and can comment. PMThor is a friend, fellow Musketeer and a legendary poster. He and I will agree to disagree on this point. Maybe you and I do too, DW.

Anybody on here can feel what they like. Even cheer for the bum if you want. I won't. Raccoon Face sat right next to me at the AFO Outing in 2007 and told me that he wanted to stay at Xavier for a long, long time. I guess a long, long time is now two years in this day and age.

Once a guy leaves Xavier, he's dead to me. He becomes the enemy because what he becomes is just another A-hole that stands in the way of Xavier getting what it so richly deserves. He no longer is a "Xavier guy."

Good bye, Raccoon. I hope the door hits you in your wallet fattened a$$.

Ya, I was trying not to sound like that but I did. Sorry. Didnt know how to comment on your opinion of it without sounding like I was telling you what to do and also disagreeing some with you. Didnt really come out in the form of the greatest post.

[D-West & PO-Z]

BTW, you can take it to the bank that Calapari and Matta had their input into Miller's decision. In the end, what appears to be one person's decision is really the culmination of input from many others. The influences that people have in their lives has an impact on whatever decision is made. Only Miller knows how he feels about it when he is alone with his thoughts. That my friends is called a conscience. If he has one, then the decision to leave X may bother Miller. If not, then it is business as usual and he'll screw UofA just as quickly the next time he has a chance.

What I wonder is what Sean's dad said. You know, the guy who coached at the same high school for 45 years.

Ya I agree. Those are two guys I would expect Miller to look at for advice based on his relationship with them and neither has anything to gain monetarily from his decision. I just didnt think that Sean would let an agent who is trying to make more dollars affect his decision. But its not impossible.

[blobfan]

...Raccoon Face sat right next to me at the AFO Outing in 2007 and told me that he wanted to stay at Xavier for a long, long time. ...
Hearing that kind of thing just makes him a bit sadder in my eyes. You don't say things like that to a random donor unless you really believe what you are saying at the time or are a complete mercenary and lying out your a$$. I really believe Sean meant it when he said it and his decision to leave is inexplicable. I think he's going to regret it and it's a bit sad.

It's sad for Arizona, too. They've hired a guy that takes advice from mercenaries (Matta and Calipari) and can't seem to follow through on something for long no matter how passionately he professes his goals.

Or maybe he's just that good an actor.

Regardless, he's gone. I won't say anything against those venting about it unless it detracts from support of the current team and coaching staff. And I don't think it will. I think we are going to enjoy this season. It might not be what it could have been but it seems unlikely it will be what Miller's first season was.

If I hope for one change, it's that Mack doesn't talk too much about how long he plans to stay at X. Given his history, he's an X man now and likely will be for life, whether he's our coach for life or not. Just leave it at that and coach the damned team.

[Xavier]

What do you guys want him to say? that he is going to look at jobs after every year then decide if X is the best fit for him? come on--its coach speak and almost everyone does it. Id bet almost all of you would of done the same thing. Say you are head coach at a Decent MAC school and a BCS team came in and offered you more money, would you really stay because the MAC school gave you your first chance? no

[xeus]

With all due respect. Thor, we can feel what we want to. Racoon Face professed undying love and allegiance to Xavier and to players that he recruited telling Kenny Frease flat out that he would be his coach for 4 years. I guess that only worked until he could get his thirty pieces of silver. Judas betrayed Jesus after pledging allegiance, too.

Raccoon Face turned his back on those who gave him support firstly through his initial rough patch and secondly, by giving him superb resources that he is now using to take recruits that he met on Xavier's dime- by extension, all of our dimes if we gave money. That is some way to repay the loyalty.

And don't give me any crap about - "Well, all of us would leave for the money." That's BS. Many of us, including me, have had chances to leave our jobs for one paying more, but some of us believe that loyalty and committment count for something more than just another dollar. Let's see if Raccoon gives anything to the Xavier Annual Fund.

Raccon was making a very, very nice living at Xavier. He had no money worries and he had security with more money on the way. He had the resources to win a National Championship here. He had a roster that could win one. His words about going to Arizona for competitive reasons ring hollow. He left for money, pure and simple and broke promises going out the door. Add to that, he's ripping recruits to Arizona that those desert rats didn't pay a cent for. He goes to Arizona- an IMG Collegiate Marketed school, now he's being paid partly by IMG, then he amazingly is able to move Kyryl- from the IMG Academy- to Arizona too? Questionable? Yeah. If he had any scruples, he'd tell those kids like Parrom to stick with Xavier, that he wasn't interested in him at Arizona, but that is obviously not happening.

Sorry, no lingering love for the thieving Raccon Face. Xavier will be just fine with Chris Mack, but don't expect me to forgive, or cheer for the departed coach. Just check my signature below-

I'm getting sick of you and these ongoing Sean Miller rants. Grow up or go back to Musketeer Madness with this stupid bs.

[Xman95]

BTW, you can take it to the bank that Calapari and Matta had their input into Miller's decision.

I realize that they are both friends with Miller, but what are two schools who can gain a lot in recruiting if X slips? UK and OSU both stand to gain if Xavier happens to miss a beat with the hiring of Mack (btw I don't think it will). I'm not saying X is above those two, but it's often a hurdle...and one they sometimes can't clear.

So, while I'm guessing some friendly advice was given, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that Calipari and Matta would have sold the idea of going to Arizona knowing it could help them too.

[MuskiePimp23]

I'm getting sick of you and these ongoing Sean Miller rants. Grow up or go back to Musketeer Madness with this stupid bs.

Xeus, if you don't like it, then don't respond...I agree with 100% of what MOR said and think it is great that he said it...This is what a messageboard is about and he is free to say what he pleases.

[Xman95]

I'm getting sick of you and these ongoing Sean Miller rants. Grow up or go back to Musketeer Madness with this stupid bs.

Being that you know this thread is probably going to have several anti-Miller posts, why would you bother clicking on it? Also, if you're tired of MOR's rants in particular, isn't there some sort of "ignore" option you can use?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I agree with everything MOR is posting. But I know full well what I can be in for when I get into threads like this.

(And by "threads like this" I don't mean a fancy, new, powder blue, seersucker suit.)

[xeus]

Xeus, if you don't like it, then don't respond...I agree with 100% of what MOR said and think it is great that he said it...This is what a messageboard is about and he is free to say what he pleases.

Isn't that what I was doing?

[xeus]

Being that you know this thread is probably going to have several anti-Miller posts, why would you bother clicking on it? Also, if you're tired of MOR's rants in particular, isn't there some sort of "ignore" option you can use?


I read all the threads because I am a moderator.

[Kahns Krazy]

I like MOR. I, too, am sick of reading the Miller venting, but I'm glad MOR has a place where he can do it until it's out of his system.

Nobody is really out of line on the subject. It's the off season. Some are going to dwell on the coaching change until we win our first game. I've moved on to how bad my golf game seems to be. I'm hitting everything fat, and I'm going to dwell on that.

Make your fat jokes here.

[XU 87]

Once a guy leaves Xavier, he's dead to me. He becomes the enemy because what he becomes is just another A-hole that stands in the way of Xavier getting what it so richly deserves. He no longer is a "Xavier guy."



So you think that Staak, Gillen and Prosser are all a-holes?

For future reference, if Mack leaves, does he make the "enemy list" as well?

[xeus]

I guess that only worked until he could get his thirty pieces of silver. Judas betrayed Jesus after pledging allegiance, too.


Really? That's not being a little dramatic is it? Geez. Grow up MOR.

[Masterofreality]

Really? That's not being a little dramatic is it? Geez. Grow up MOR.

That's the way to moderate a board, huh? Let's go to censuring posters for posting their legitimate feelings. Sounds like another board monitor who many have left behind.

Hey, bro. I didn't start this thread. I responded to something that PThor said and we're good with it. He has his opinion, I have mine. Nothing that I have said ever on this board has been detrimental to anyone or anything that is currently involved with the Xavier program. I support those who are Xavier. Those who choose to leave are dead to me.

Maybe it is you who should grow up, Xeus, so you can accept varying viewpoints. If you are tired of my postings, don't read them. But don't worry. Basketball season's over, and my posting season is about over.

[xeus]

Basketball season's over, and my posting season is about over.

Good. I'm sick of reading your crybaby posts.

[xeus]

That's the way to moderate a board, huh? Let's go to censuring posters for posting their legitimate feelings. Sounds like another board monitor who many have left behind.


So you are free to vehemently criticize Sean Miller, but when someone criticizes you you can't take it. I get it. It's a free-for-all, as long as you are posting "legitimate feelings" right MOR? Well my "legitimate feeling" is that you need to stop being such a crybaby about Sean Miller leaving, and stop attacking him personally, and move on with your life.

[vee4xu]

Come on guys. Everyone just relax and take a deep breath. Let cooler heads prevail. I think the early season hot weather is getting to everyone.

[PM Thor]

Well that's it. Miller has accomplished his ultimate goal, which is to have Xavier diehard fans infight over his departure.

I HATE dayton.

[murph02]

Good. I'm sick of reading your crybaby posts.

Couldn't agree more, all of this is getting old. It is what it is, Miller is gone, this program is better for having him and life will go on. Mack is our guy now, lets focus on the future....

[xeus]

I was at a March of Dimes event this morning, and received a call about a post about Sean Miller: "F$%^ him, F$%^ his family."

By the time I made it home, the post had been deleted. But really. His family? F his family? C'mon guys.

Geez. Sean was a great Xavier contributor for years. I'll defend him on that.

MOR'S hurt (but "legitimate") feelings notwithstanding, Sean made a choice and moved on. In my opinion, that's his loss. But the ongoing ad hominem attacks on him are unnecessary. That's my "legitimate feeling" which according to MOR is OK to post here.

[vee4xu]

Guys, MOR doesn't need me to speak on his behalf, but I'm gonna do so anyway. MOR and I have known each other since around 1970. He is as loyal an all around guy as I've ever known. He is also one of the most passionate guys I've ever known. Finally, if MOR is not the most zealous Xavier fan I know he is at least in the top three.

MOR loves XU basketball and has lived through some lousy, lousy years of it. As he watches this program grow into what seems to be the verge of greatness, he sees coaches who leave for (in their minds) bigger and better things. To MOR, nothing is bigger or better than XU. And after seenig so much progress for almost 40 years it slays him that coaches do not have the commitment to see this thing through.

Look, Xeus has to do his thing as moderator, or even as a huge fan with a difference of opinion. I understand and respect that. I have no issue with him calling MOR, me or anyone else out because as moderator (or again as a fan) that is his right and as moderator it is his duty.

My goal is not to make nice-nice or play mediator here by posting this. Xeus, MOR and all of us here are big boys and girls. They'll have to figure things out between themselves. We all take the good with the bad around here. Simply as someone who has known MOR for almost my entire life I'm offering my perspective of where I think he's coming from.

He's a good dude.

[GoMuskies]

My thought is that these types of posts would go away a lot quicker and with much less fanfare if the "move on" crowd just moved on by such posts and didn't comment. They generally just call more attention to what they are trying to bury. MOR wasn't going to spend 50+ posts talking to himself about Sean Miller.

[D-West & PO-Z]

My thought is that these types of posts would go away a lot quicker and with much less fanfare if the "move on" crowd just moved on by such posts and didn't comment. They generally just call more attention to what they are trying to bury. MOR wasn't going to spend 50+ posts talking to himself about Sean Miller.

Are you sure?;):)

[xudash]

Come on guys. Everyone just relax and take a deep breath. Let cooler heads prevail. I think the early season hot weather is getting to everyone.

I would like to offer that we let it calm down here as well.

We're all cyber friends at least to the extent that we're passionate about Xavier and Xavier basketball.

I haven't followed this entire thread, but I can understand anyone who gradually came to resent Miller over his departure, based on some of the information shared on this site.

I personally reacted in a very negative way towards him. The primary reason for that was because I believed him when he said he had found a "home." So I was naive and that was for me to wash through the system. A second and close reason was when I began to contemplate how well he had positioned us; how close we have come to really making a splash, only to have this happen with the result being a heavy price paid in terms of momentum. I had to wash that one away, too, knowing - believing - that we'll be okay with Mack at the helm, especially now that it appears as though we have Kelsey coming back on board.

Miller did great things for this program, and so he did great things for this school. He probably loves Xavier and will always hold a special place in his heart for it. He did what he did for his career and his family. We just happened to get the sh!t end of the stick as a result of that decision.

A 4AM call to Mack? An unclear, or undisclosed discussion with Mike later that morning? What else is there for the Senate panel to convene on about all this? I can't imagine the stress and pressure that comes from a decision like the one he had to make, and I've had a reasonably successful career where some decisions were made along the way that took some thought and more than some scotch.

He made a decision. It's over. He'll now live with what he's put himself into.

Xavier will move on, being Xavier.

I have no reason, absolutely no reason to believe that Xavier will not continue its ascent as an institution and as a basketball program.

WE have come far. We will go farther; we will continue our success, and we will enjoy the ride.

[waggy]

I'm just glad, since Sean is no longer here, X can now get back to being lil' ol' Xavier. Sorry, I'm not going to hate him really, but needed to get that little shot in. I'm sure Sean will be devastated as soon as he reads it.

[Masterofreality]

Good. I'm sick of reading your crybaby posts.

I paid my $12.50 to support this site and I'm free to post my opinion. If you don't like 'em, don't read 'em, or, if you are on a sudden power trip, just delete 'em or just go ahead and ban me, Mr. Senior Moderator.

Amazing with all the other crap that guys say on here, you pick this to get authoritarian on.

G'bye for now.

[xeus]

I paid my $12.50 to support this site and I'm free to post my opinion. If you don't like 'em, don't read 'em, or, if you are on a sudden power trip, just delete 'em or just go ahead and ban me, Mr. Senior Moderator.

Amazing with all the other crap that guys say on here, you pick this to get authoritarian on.

G'bye for now.

Yeah - that's it. It's me on a power trip. I post here because I feel inadequate in other areas of my life and this is the only place I feel important. Heh.

I posted my personal opinion of your attitude about Sean Miller. Now suddenly posting "legitimate feelings" (your words) is a bad thing because they involve criticisms of your posts. If you don't like 'em, don't read 'em.

[DC Muskie]

I can't believe Sean called Chris Mack at 4 in the morning saying he chancged his mind. It would have been better if he called Mack at 7 in the morning, while he was watching the Today Show.

[Tim]

I just read this entire post and am surprised to see a so-called moderator be the one to behave in a belligerent and immature manner. Talk about an ego trip. Moderators are supposed to fan the flame wars, not contribute to them and escalate them. I noticed that previous posts were "edited" by the moderator too.

Since when is having an opinion -- especially when stated in a professional, mature manner -- cause for being derided on a message board? When you tell others to "grow up," you are the one who sounds like the immature one.

[gladdenguy]

I paid my $12.50 to support this site and I'm free to post my opinion. If you don't like 'em, don't read 'em, or, if you are on a sudden power trip, just delete 'em or just go ahead and ban me, Mr. Senior Moderator.

Amazing with all the other crap that guys say on here, you pick this to get authoritarian on.

G'bye for now.

You and I should get together and go to an Arizona game MOR.
We will make it rain on that raccoon.

[xeus]

You and I should get together and go to an Arizona game MOR.
We will make it rain on that raccoon.

Now THAT is funny.

[xeus]

Since when is having an opinion -- especially when stated in a professional, mature manner -- cause for being derided on a message board?

I'm curious why you think MOR's voicing an opinion about Sean (who isn't even here to defend himself) is legitimate, while me voicing my opinion about MOR (who IS here to defend himself) is inappropriate.

Also, if you think MOR suggesting Sean is involved in recruiting improprieties, calling Sean "Judas", and saying Sean has no scruples is "professional" and "mature" I can see why we might have a difference of opinion on this.

[gladdenguy]

I'm curious why you think MOR's voicing an opinion about Sean (who isn't even here to defend himself) is legitimate, while me voicing my opinion about MOR (who IS here to defend himself) is inappropriate.

Could you make it possible for Sean Miller to personally be here to defend himself?

Put it this way. He would remember the wrath of gladdenguy.

[American X]

Moderators are supposed to fan the flame wars

Well then Xeus did a top-notch job.

Because fanning flames causes them to increase in size and intensity.

[nuts4xu]

I still love Sean Miller. He is going to do great things in Arizona.

[LA Muskie]

So you are free to vehemently criticize Sean Miller, but when someone criticizes you you can't take it. I get it. It's a free-for-all, as long as you are posting "legitimate feelings" right MOR? Well my "legitimate feeling" is that you need to stop being such a crybaby about Sean Miller leaving, and stop attacking him personally, and move on with your life.
I started this thread (but never expected it to morph into this). The difference, Xeus, is that this is a message board about XU Basketball. It is not a message board about XU message board posters. Being a moderator, I would have expected that you would know the distinction. Discussions of XU basketball are fair game. Personal attacks on individual posters are not.

[The Artist]

Well then Xeus did a top-notch job.

Because fanning flames causes them to increase in size and intensity.

this made me chuckle

[LA Muskie]

I'm curious why you think MOR's voicing an opinion about Sean (who isn't even here to defend himself) is legitimate, while me voicing my opinion about MOR (who IS here to defend himself) is inappropriate.
See my post above. There's a pretty significant difference.

[XU 87]

I'm just hoping LH will get involved in this thread.

[xeus]

I'm just hoping LH will get involved in this thread.

Stay on topic.

[xeus]

I started this thread (but never expected it to morph into this). The difference, Xeus, is that this is a message board about XU Basketball. It is not a message board about XU message board posters. Being a moderator, I would have expected that you would know the distinction. Discussions of XU basketball are fair game. Personal attacks on individual posters are not.

Sean Miller is no longer the coach at Xavier. By your above-stated rules, we should not be discussing Sean Miller anymore than we should be discussing MOR's opinion of Sean Miller. I'd also argue that I am not "personally attacking" MOR anywhere near the degree to which he is personally attacking Sean Miller.

[blobfan]

Sean Miller is no longer the coach at Xavier. By your above-stated rules, we should not be discussing Sean Miller anymore than we should be discussing MOR's opinion of Sean Miller. I'd also argue that I am not "personally attacking" MOR anywhere near the degree to which he is personally attacking Sean Miller.

You're stretching things a bit there. Sean Miller will always be part of Xavier basketball, whether we like it or not, along with Skip and Huggins and Matta and Finn and Burrell and Binnie and all the players and coaches from our teams and our opponants going back decades. LA Muskie is calling all that fair game but suggesting attacking individual posters is not.

I'm not sure I agree with that because as a usually disinterested observer some of the battles of will on this board can be pretty amusing and there's a smack board and private forums for some good infighting. But direct personal attacks of any sort are unsavory and don't really add to the conversation. If you think MoR is beating a subject to death, how about a PM? Something the rest of us don't have to get into? On the other hand, I completely support your deleting tirades that include profanity or people's familes.

And while I don't share MoRs vehemence in this case, I can still be sent off on a Matta tirade from time to time, so I understand where he's coming from. I think until the next season with our new staff has begun, lamenting Miller's defection should be fare game for the boards. It's therapeutic.

[Muskie]

I love the off-season.

[muskiekt]

back to work boys, recess is over!

[xeus]

What was my "direct personal attack" that everyone is so upset about? Was it when I called him a crybaby?

If so - MOR, I am really really really sorry I called you a crybaby.

[xeus]

If he had any scruples, he'd tell those kids like Parrom to stick with Xavier, that he wasn't interested in him at Arizona, but that is obviously not happening.


This one still makes me laugh.

[gladdenguy]

You're stretching things a bit there. Sean Miller will always be part of Xavier basketball, whether we like it or not, along with Skip and Huggins and Matta and Finn and Burrell.

I hate that part about all of this. I wish his accomplishments would just transfer to Chris Mack. Well, besides that 05 record.