A Very Suspect Relationship....

[Masterofreality]

Ok, we all know that Kyryl is now going to Arizona. He's going without ever seeing the campus. That is somewhat suspect, but here's what is even more bothersome to me, and something that I hope the NCAA is, or will, look into.

Kyryl is presently attending the "IMG Academy" in Florida. Below is the link to their basketball web page:

http://www.imgacademies.com/basketball-academy/

If you open that link, there are four headlines on there that have to do with either Kyryl or Xavier's former coach. This adds to the shady nature of this whole deal, why?

Because "IMG Collegiate" is the college marketing arm of IMG and Arizona is one of it's clients- like Learfield is Xavier's marketing company. The difference is that Learfield doesn't have "Academies" to feed propspects to Xavier, nor do other marketing companies. SucKS also is an IMG client, which may explain how Kyryl was linked to them for a while.

The final piece of this puzzle is that IMG, if you read the details of the former coach's contract with AZ. is, along with Nike, paying $400,000 to him per year. it certainly is in their best interest to "feed' players to their client institutions, you would think.

Anybody else think that this is blantantly unethical and totally against NCAA rules? It sure as hell is a conflict of interest with unfair advantage. I'd also like to see how much of an educational "Academy" this IMG place is. A few years ago, the NCAA was investigating basketball factories like the Celestial Academy in Philadelphia and others of that ilk. Sure seems to me that this is of the same type of mess, although classier.

Somebody up there in Indianapolis had better get on the stick and regulate this crap. As for the departed former coach, it appears to be getting a little slimy in Tucson already.

[Muskie]

Ok, we all know that Kyryl is now going to Arizona. He's going without ever seeing the campus. That is somewhat suspect, but here's what is even more bothersome to me, and something that I hope the NCAA is, or will, look into.

Kyryl is presently attending the "IMG Academy" in Florida. Below is the link to their basketball web page:

http://www.imgacademies.com/basketball-academy/

If you open that link, there are four headlines on there that have to do with either Kyryl or our former coach Raccoon Face. This adds to the shady nature of this whole deal, why?

Because "IMG Collegiate" is the college marketing arm of IMG and Arizona is one of it's clients- like Learfield is Xavier's marketing company. The difference is that Learfield doesn't have "Academies" to feed propspects to Xavier, nor do other marketing companies. SucKS also is an IMG client, which may explain how Kyryl was linked to them for a while.

The final piece of this puzzle is that IMG, if you read the details of Raccoon Face's contract with AZ. is, along with Nike, paying $400,000 to Raccoon per year. it certainly is in their best interest to "feed' players to their client institutions, you would think.

Anybody else think that this is blantantly unethical and totally against NCAA rules? It sure as hell is a conflict of interest with unfair advantage. I'd also like to see how much of an educational "Academy" this IMG place is. A few years ago, the NCAA was investigating basketball factories like the Celestial Academy in Philadelphia and others of that ilk. Sure seems to me that this is of the same type of mess, although classier.

Somebody up there in Indianapolis had better get on the stick and regulate this crap. As for Raccoon Face, it appears to be getting a little slimy in Tucson already.

MOR, I see where you're coming from. But from all accounts, Miller was ready to take Kryl here at X as well. Isn't it sour grapes to jump on Miller now for bringing a recruit to Arizona, when that same recruit would have been fawned over at X if Miller were still here. Don't get me wrong. Miller has provided plenty of material in the last ten days or so to jump all over. I just don't see it here.

[stxxu]

The final piece of this puzzle is that IMG, if you read the details of Raccoon Face's contract with AZ. is, along with Nike, paying $400,000 to Raccoon per year. it certainly is in their best interest to "feed' players to their client institutions, you would think.

When I was reading the contract for Arizona's new coach, I saw that and was wondering about that; thanks for enlightening me.

Other than that, some interesting points made. Even if they don't necessarily point to unethical behavior, interesting nonetheless.

[boozehound]

I don't think that MOR's issue is as much with Miller recruiting Kyryl as it is the fact the IMG academy has a "Collegiate Marketing" arm with an affilitiation to AZ. That is a little surprising to me as well that they are allowed to have a marketing company as part of the academy.

Aren't those academies *supposed* to be an educational institution? I'm not unrealistic about what actually goes on at those places, however it seems like allowing them to run an NCAA basketball marketing company is not even trying to act like they are anything but 'basketball factories'.

They obviously have a significant financial investment in Arizona doing well and I am sure that they push recruits to attend universities that they are affiliated with. Unless the NCAA decides to actually regulate things of this nature it is just the lay of the land though. You have to decide if you want to play ball with instititions like IMG. I don't fault a coach too heavily for doing so. I do fault the NCAA for doing an incredibly poor job of regulating college athletics.

[Jumpy]

Its too early to expect a full NCAA investigation, but it will be interesting to watch how it all plays out. There have been basketball factories in the past, and some still remain (Oak Hill), but never run by a marketing firm directly tied to college basketball.

They may be on the up and up, but all the pieces are definitely there for corruption to take over if it hasn't already. It seems so blatant that you have to wonder why the NCAA would allow it in the first place. Although, I guess they can't regulate who opens up charter schools or academies. All they can do is reactively investigate fraud/corruption.

[Masterofreality]

MOR, I see where you're coming from. But from all accounts, Miller was ready to take Kryl here at X as well. Isn't it sour grapes to jump on Miller now for bringing a recruit to Arizona, when that same recruit would have been fawned over at X if Miller were still here. Don't get me wrong. Miller has provided plenty of material in the last ten days or so to jump all over. I just don't see it here.

Not the point. Raccoon Face is being paid by IMG- its in the contract. Now he's getting players from IMG Academy. That would be tantamount to Nike giving a kid Nike shoes on his AAU team then the AAU coach, who is getting paid by Nike, directs his player to a Nike shoe school where the coach is also getting paid by Nike. That is certainly frowned upon, if not a violation, but it is even more indirect than the IMG scenario here where a coach gets paid by a company then starts having players from that company's "academy" fed to him too. It certainly seems slimy that the IMG website has Racoon Face's name plastered all over it now. A little extra marketing, methinks?

Celestial Academy was a sham for a basketball factory, but they weren't paying college coaches. IMG is. If Celestial was found to be unethical, why not IMG?

[newtsac]

MOR, I like your style.

And as the boys from Wu Tang have always said, "Cash rules everything around me, C.R.E.A.M. Get the money, dollar dollar bills, ya'll..."

[stxxu]

That would be tantamount to Nike giving a kid Nike shoes on his AAU team then the AAU coach, who is getting paid by Nike, directs his player to a Nike shoe school where the coach is also getting paid by Nike.

Dustin Dow had a blog post (http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog05&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3afdda4dab-ab39-43a7-8ba8-36da2f75a889Post%3a7b618052-8820-46e5-82bc-d11ecb30ce48&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com) a few weeks ago about this. It's worth a read for those who haven't seen it, but in it, he states:


Nowadays, teams and coaches are known as Nike teams or adidas teams. Xavier, which has a Nike ad in its media guide, is a Nike team. Cincinnati used to be a Nike team until Mick Cronin arrived and with his adidas contact rebranded the Bearcats as an adidas team. It shouldn't be a surprise that one of the Bearcats most sought after recent recruits, Yancy Gates, played for an adidas-sponsored summer basketball team. Nor is it a surprise that Drew Lavender played for Nike teams, Oklahoma and Xavier, even though he originally wanted to go to Pittsburgh, an adidas team. Lavender played for a Nike-sponsored summer basketball team. Before he graduated from Xavier last season, Lavender told me that his summer coaches, including his father Tony, made it clear that Pittsburgh and its adidas ties was not an option.

So I get what you're saying, but at the same time, it is my understanding that this type of behavior basically already happens with the shoe companies (although I admittedly don't understand the intricacies of AAU basketball teams' relationships with the shoe companies).

[stxxu]

MOR, I like your style.

And as the boys from Wu Tang have always said, "Cash rules everything around me, C.R.E.A.M. Get the money, dollar dollar bills, ya'll..."

This thread is, in my eyes, automatically one of the best Xavier Hoops thread ever because of this. Any day someone can get a Wu Tang reference into everyday conversation, it's a good day.

Wu Tang!

[newtsac]

This thread is, in my eyes, automatically one of the best Xavier Hoops thread ever because of this. Any day someone can get a Wu Tang reference into everyday conversation, it's a good day.

Wu Tang!

Thanks for the Reps!

[Xman95]

And as the boys from Wu Tang have always said, "Cash rules everything around me, C.R.E.A.M. Get the money, dollar dollar bills, ya'll..."



A Clan reference. Another chance for me to claim that Jason Love reminds me of Ol' Dirty Bastard...

http://www3.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/NCAA+Basketball+Tournament+First+Round+Boise+DOt4g bIAjp-l.jpg

[GoMuskies]

Put Arizona on probation and give their coach the Kelvin Sampson treatment.

[AZWildcat]

"The fox said these raisins be sour."

[The Artist]

MOR, I see where you're coming from. But from all accounts, Miller was ready to take Kryl here at X as well. Isn't it sour grapes to jump on Miller now for bringing a recruit to Arizona, when that same recruit would have been fawned over at X if Miller were still here. Don't get me wrong. Miller has provided no material in the last ten days or so that any reasonable person should jump all over, including here.

I was about to type the same thing as 85% of your post, but changed the end to show my thoughts.

[The Artist]

Its too early to expect a full NCAA investigation, but it will be interesting to watch how it all plays out. There have been basketball factories in the past, and some still remain (Oak Hill), but never run by a marketing firm directly tied to college basketball.

They may be on the up and up, but all the pieces are definitely there for corruption to take over if it hasn't already. It seems so blatant that you have to wonder why the NCAA would allow it in the first place. Although, I guess they can't regulate who opens up charter schools or academies. All they can do is reactively investigate fraud/corruption.

Good post, and well put.

MOR, I really have no idea where you're going with this. In order for your conspiracy to work out, the kid would have to want to go to one of the IMG schools. In order to do so, there must be something in it for the kid.

So, I'll just bluntly ask you, what motivation does a kid from an IMG academy have to choose an IMG college?

[waggy]

Nike sells apparell. They want to be associated with popular programs and players that help them do that.

IMG sells "NBA dreams" basically. What they are really doing is positioning themselves for the representative player contract when/if he goes pro.

[Masterofreality]

So, I'll just bluntly ask you, what motivation does a kid from an IMG academy have to choose an IMG college?

The key word here that you use Art is "choose." Who's actually doing the choosing?

Kyryl is from another country. He has little idea about any school, therefore is the perfect foil for this scenario. He can be easily influenced by those at IMG, besides being influenced by the potential college's coach. If you don't think that recruits are influenced by their high school coaches, or those with influence over them at these "academies" then you need to think again. This takes it to a whole other level, though- Corporate influence.

To me, one of the telling things in this case was that somehow, Sippin' Mick thought that he might actually have a chance at Kyryl. His school is an IMG connected school. Again, point:

The coaches at IMG client schools are being paid directly by IMG money. I'm raising the question., Who is to say that IMG doesn't exert undue influence over where one of their "students" goes?
There sure is an awful amount of Kyryl/Raccoon news on their website. This is the kind of stuff where rules need to be set now. It's a whole new set of circumstances.

And, no, no sour grapes here. I knew that Kyryl was gone last Monday. We don't need him. A luxury, not a necessity.

[Muskie]

Not the point. Raccoon Face is being paid by IMG- its in the contract. Now he's getting players from IMG Academy. That would be tantamount to Nike giving a kid Nike shoes on his AAU team then the AAU coach, who is getting paid by Nike, directs his player to a Nike shoe school where the coach is also getting paid by Nike. That is certainly frowned upon, if not a violation, but it is even more indirect than the IMG scenario here where a coach gets paid by a company then starts having players from that company's "academy" fed to him too. It certainly seems slimy that the IMG website has Racoon Face's name plastered all over it now. A little extra marketing, methinks?

Celestial Academy was a sham for a basketball factory, but they weren't paying college coaches. IMG is. If Celestial was found to be unethical, why not IMG?

Got it my friend. I missed the IMG part of his contract. What can i say I missed it (it was pre-caffine this morning).

[The Artist]

The key word here that you use Art is "choose." Who's actually doing the choosing?

Kyryl is from another country. He has little idea about any school, therefore is the perfect foil for this scenario. He can be easily influenced by those at IMG, besides being influenced by the potential college's coach. If you don't think that recruits are influenced by their high school coaches, or those with influence over them at these "academies" then you need to think again. This takes it to a whole other level, though- Corporate influence.

To me, one of the telling things in this case was that somehow, Sippin' Mick thought that he might actually have a chance at Kyryl. His school is an IMG connected school. Again, point:

The coaches at IMG client schools are being paid directly by IMG money. I'm raising the question., Who is to say that IMG doesn't exert undue influence over where one of their "students" goes?
There sure is an awful amount of Kyryl/Raccoon news on their website. This is the kind of stuff where rules need to be set now. It's a whole new set of circumstances.

And, no, no sour grapes here. I knew that Kyryl was gone last Monday. We don't need him. A luxury, not a necessity.

I understand the grand amount of influence that the coaches have at such a place, but even if he retracts it, I still refer to Muskie's point.

The coaches at the academy must then suck at their jobs because up until about a week ago their "influence" was not working at all as Kyryl was very close to coming to X.

Whether your broader point is true or not, I have no idea. I just don't think Kyryl is a good example for the argument you're trying to make.

IMO, if AZ wasn't not an IMG college, OR Kyryl was not going to an IMG academy, he would still be heading to AZ at this point.

[LadyMuskie]

I think the problem here is that there is no way to know whether Kyryl would have chosen X had Sean stayed. So, MOR's argument and The Artist's arguments are both valid.

Personally, if there is any question that Kyryl's recruitment would bring NCAA sanctions on X, then I say let Arizona have him. I don't want Xavier to put success before doing things the right way.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I understand the grand amount of influence that the coaches have at such a place, but even if he retracts it, I still refer to Muskie's point.

The coaches at the academy must then suck at their jobs because up until about a week ago their "influence" was not working at all as Kyryl was very close to coming to X.

Whether your broader point is true or not, I have no idea. I just don't think Kyryl is a good example for the argument you're trying to make.

IMO, if AZ wasn't not an IMG college, OR Kyryl was not going to an IMG academy, he would still be heading to AZ at this point.

Ya, I agree with you. Kyryl is only going to Arizona because of Miller going there. He didnt look at Arizona before. Miller leaves XU and Kyryl stops considering us and goes to Miller's new school. Nothing unusual to me about that.

However the overall point could be valid. I just agree its not the best example.

Edit: Tried to rep you for the post but says I cant. I dont understand how the whole spreading it around thing works. Dont think I have repped you anytime recently.

[Masterofreality]

However the overall point could be valid. I just agree its not the best example.


Well, right now, it's the only example we have. Kyryl mysteriously appears from somewhere in the former USSR. IMG Collegiate has only been in business for about a year. The "Academy' is only just now turning out players for college basketball programs. Before they emphasized tennis players and golfers- individual sports. Now, all the ingredients are in place. They were not before.

I'm just sayin' that this is very suspect and somewhat disturbing. It is a step up from the already seamy AAU system that everyone complains about because IMG corporate money is being paid directly to a coach. Money, by the way, that enhanced Raccoon's contract and greased his move from Cincinnati. The NCAA needs to step in to oversee this type of scenario, right now.

[boozehound]

I am a bit surprised that a coach is allowed to accept money from sources like that at all.

Heck, I am surprised that coaches are allowed to have shoe and apparel contracts. I would think that the universities would have their own contracts with Nike, Adidas, etc. that would supercede any contracts that a coach could sign with said vendors.

[Masterofreality]

Here's something interesting from the Pitt Basketball Blog:


Sunday, April 12, 2009
Pitt Basketball Q&A

By Chris Dokish

It seems the more info I report, the more questions come, so let's do this again. If anybody else wants to ask a question, feel free at doke88@yahoo.com. And, as always, these questions are edited for clarification.

Q: Why did Kyryl Natyazhko say one day that Pitt and Arizona State was his leader, then the next day choose to go to Arizona?

A: Good question. He not only told me, he told two other people I know the same thing on the same day. I really don't want to speculate on why he said one thing, his coach said another, and it went the way the coach wanted, because I don't want to get into that. But it is interesting, to say the least. But IMG Academy is more of a placement program than a school so use your imagination.

Q: What is this about Natyazhko's eligibility problems?

A: I would say "possible" eligibility problems. It's my understanding that Pitt recently discovered some things in Natyazhko's past that may put his eligibility in serious question. And those things were big enough that if they had known earlier, they wouldn't have even pursued him. But before people criticize Pitt for their lack of due diligence, let me say that it is very difficult to know everything about a player's background in a place like the Ukraine. Does Chinese gymnasts ring a bell? But let me make it known that I'm not saying anything fishy happened or that Natyazhko will definitely be ineligible, but I am saying that there are colleges who think the questions were serious enough that they questioned his eligibility. Pitt may have dodged a bullet or they may have missed out on a good player. Time will tell.

http://bebballreportpitt.blogspot.com/

[XU2424]

We should try and steal a recruit from Mount St Joseph.